opinions wanted on subwoofers

[Jack]

It's not the same as most subs crossover function is available with both the line and speaker level inputs while with the GE it's only available using the speaker level inputs. They need a low pass crossover built into a component upstream to work via line level as would be the case in the average HT setup. 

[toobluvr]

As you know, my main focus with considering subs is to allow the treble and mids to perform even better. If I will gain a better sense of space and soundstage as you mentioned, I'd be thrilled. That is what could use a bit of improvement right now.

This improvement is only achievable if a high-pass filter is employed to block the LF from your main speakers.   I have only  skimmed the thread, so not sure if this element has been discussed.  Do the subs recommended here do that with their high level inputs?  (My Gallo subs have a high-pass filter built into their high level speaker inputs.  So the main amp connects into sub speaker inputs, and then sub speaker outputs get connected to main speakers, with a passive filter between the two, thereby high-passing the main speakers.  Sub's crossover adjustment is used to low-pass to the sub).

If the sub does not have this filter built-in, you will need to put a high-pass filter before your main amp, and then drive the subs line level from your preamp outputs.

If you don't high-pass your JMRs, they will be playing full range exactly as they are now, and you will simply be augmenting the bottom with the subs.

[Nick B]

As you know, my main focus with considering subs is to allow the treble and mids to perform even better. If I will gain a better sense of space and soundstage as you mentioned, I'd be thrilled. That is what could use a bit of improvement right now.

This improvement is only achievable if a high-pass filter is employed to block the LF from your main speakers.   I have only  skimmed the thread, so not sure if this element has been discussed.  Do the subs recommended here do that with their high level inputs?  (My Gallo subs have a high-pass filter built into their high level speaker inputs.  So the main amp connects into sub speaker inputs, and then sub speaker outputs get connected to main speakers, with a passive filter between the two, thereby high-passing the main speakers.  Sub's crossover adjustment is used to low-pass to the sub).

If the sub does not have this filter built-in, you will need to put a high-pass filter before your main amp, and then drive the subs line level from your preamp outputs.

If you don't high-pass you JMRs, they will be playing full range exactly as they are now, and you will simply be augmenting the bottom with the subs.

My intent was to get by without an active external xover and dip my toes into the world of subwoofers. As I mentioned, I have no experience with subs in 35+ years of audio. Some years ago, I owned Nolas for a couple of weeks that used one sub, but my buddy and I could not get them to sound decent and I quickly sold them. That was in a different house and I had a huge wall cabinet in the way as well. I'm looking at a number of subs currently and will check if they are capable with the filters that you are mentioning.

I only want to pursue this if I get a worthwhile improvement. Otherwise, I have other home projects that take up my time and my money for that matter as well.

[P.I.]

As you know, my main focus with considering subs is to allow the treble and mids to perform even better. If I will gain a better sense of space and soundstage as you mentioned, I'd be thrilled. That is what could use a bit of improvement right now.

This improvement is only achievable if a high-pass filter is employed to block the LF from your main speakers.   I have only  skimmed the thread, so not sure if this element has been discussed.  Do the subs recommended here do that with their high level inputs?  (My Gallo subs have a high-pass filter built into their high level speaker inputs.  So the main amp connects into sub speaker inputs, and then sub speaker outputs get connected to main speakers, with a passive filter between the two, thereby high-passing the main speakers.  Sub's crossover adjustment is used to low-pass to the sub).

If the sub does not have this filter built-in, you will need to put a high-pass filter before your main amp, and then drive the subs line level from your preamp outputs.

If you don't high-pass you JMRs, they will be playing full range exactly as they are now, and you will simply be augmenting the bottom with the subs.

My intent was to get by without an active external xover and dip my toes into the world of subwoofers. As I mentioned, I have no experience with subs in 35+ years of audio. Some years ago, I owned Nolas for a couple of weeks that used one sub, but my buddy and I could not get them to sound decent and I quickly sold them. That was in a different house and I had a huge wall cabinet in the way as well. I'm looking at a number of subs currently and will check if they are capable with the filters that you are mentioning.

I only want to pursue this if I get a worthwhile improvement. Otherwise, I have other home projects that take up my time and my money for that matter as well.

We'll talk tomorrow 

[Nick B]

As you know, my main focus with considering subs is to allow the treble and mids to perform even better. If I will gain a better sense of space and soundstage as you mentioned, I'd be thrilled. That is what could use a bit of improvement right now.

This improvement is only achievable if a high-pass filter is employed to block the LF from your main speakers.   I have only  skimmed the thread, so not sure if this element has been discussed.  Do the subs recommended here do that with their high level inputs?  (My Gallo subs have a high-pass filter built into their high level speaker inputs.  So the main amp connects into sub speaker inputs, and then sub speaker outputs get connected to main speakers, with a passive filter between the two, thereby high-passing the main speakers.  Sub's crossover adjustment is used to low-pass to the sub).

If the sub does not have this filter built-in, you will need to put a high-pass filter before your main amp, and then drive the subs line level from your preamp outputs.

If you don't high-pass you JMRs, they will be playing full range exactly as they are now, and you will simply be augmenting the bottom with the subs.

My intent was to get by without an active external xover and dip my toes into the world of subwoofers. As I mentioned, I have no experience with subs in 35+ years of audio. Some years ago, I owned Nolas for a couple of weeks that used one sub, but my buddy and I could not get them to sound decent and I quickly sold them. That was in a different house and I had a huge wall cabinet in the way as well. I'm looking at a number of subs currently and will check if they are capable with the filters that you are mentioning.

I only want to pursue this if I get a worthwhile improvement. Otherwise, I have other home projects that take up my time and my money for that matter as well.

We'll talk tomorrow 

👍

[toobluvr]

If you're up for it, you can make a very simple high-pass filter (passive) that you place before the main amp:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=181310.0

[GDHAL]

I mentioned I've bowed out of this thread, which I have. I didn't mention I wouldn't add an editorial comment from time to time, so I hope everyone doesn't mind. Again, this is just editorial...

I've always been of the opinion, and have written as much here on this site numerous times, that *in my opinion* adding one or more external subs to a system can be difficult, challenging and produce unexpected, unintended and unwanted results, and that "better" (where better is determined by YOU, the person adding the sub(s)) is in no way guaranteed.

Over the course of my lifetime, I can't get over how often *my opinion* is reinforced. 

Best.

Hal

[Nick B]

If you're up for it, you can make a very simple high-pass filter (passive) that you place before the main amp:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=181310.0

Thanks tl. Since I moved, I have yet to find a number of things which includes my soldering iron. One of the guys here suggested this device....
https://www.parts-express.com/FMOD-Crossover-Pair-50-Hz-High-Pass-266-270?quantity=1
I would be attaching it to the XLR adapter at the amp.

[Nick B]

I mentioned I've bowed out of this thread, which I have. I didn't mention I wouldn't add an editorial comment from time to time, so I hope everyone doesn't mind. Again, this is just editorial...

I've always been of the opinion, and have written as much here on this site numerous times, that *in my opinion* adding one or more external subs to a system can be difficult, challenging and produce unexpected, unintended and unwanted results, and that "better" (where better is determined by YOU, the person adding the sub(s)) is in no way guaranteed.

Over the course of my lifetime, I can't get over how often *my opinion* is reinforced. 

Best.

Hal

Thanks for chiming in again, Hal. In the course of doing this "hobby"? for 35+ years, i've bought a fair amount of equipment, cables and accessories/gizmos and some of it hasn't panned out all all 💰💰🥲🥲   Such are the hazards of having audio as a hobby. I've made amazing progress in SQ over the last couple of years here thanks to the suggestions and help of a couple of AN members. And for that I'm very grateful and enjoying the results most every night. Not knowing much at all about subs, I've taken all suggestions with an open mind and immersed myself in reading about the subject recently. I will admit my retention level has not been good due to information overload, but it's getting better. I have no idea what I will ultimately decide.

Last night I played some LF test tones and some tracks of instruments of the lowest registers. interesting stuff  for a Sunday night... My Reynaud got down to the 30 hz tone. I have sent emails to a couple of the subwoofer manufacturers and I'm also waiting to hear back.

[GDHAL]

You're welcome , Nick.  And I thank you as well for engaging all of us in productive conversation.

For what it's worth , and if you're interested, I can make available to you a music track from Mickey Hart, called the Gates of Dafos. It is rather a good track to use when wanting to test one's subwoofers.    

[Nick B]

You're welcome , Nick.  And I thank you as well for engaging all of us in productive conversation.

For what it's worth , and if you're interested, I can make available to you a music track from Mickey Hart, called the Gates of Dafos. It is rather a good track to use when wanting to test one's subwoofers.    

Sure, Hal. That would be great.

[P.I.]

You're welcome , Nick.  And I thank you as well for engaging all of us in productive conversation.

For what it's worth , and if you're interested, I can make available to you a music track from Mickey Hart, called the Gates of Dafos. It is rather a good track to use when wanting to test one's subwoofers.    

Sure, Hal. That would be great.

The Beast at work! 

[GDHAL]

You're welcome , Nick.  And I thank you as well for engaging all of us in productive conversation.

For what it's worth , and if you're interested, I can make available to you a music track from Mickey Hart, called the Gates of Dafos. It is rather a good track to use when wanting to test one's subwoofers.    

Sure, Hal. That would be great.

The Beast at work! 

Please stand by for link I'm in the middle of a ton of things I'll get it done for you within the next 24 hours or so...I'll post in this thread with download link.

I will not forget I've already made a dictation in my phone 

[GDHAL]

@nick b

please download and play this. already converted to wav for your convenience

Mickey Hart, Airto Moreira & Flora Purim - Gates of Dafos -this is a remaster and taken from very high quality vinyl...16/44 pcm

https://myaccount.dropsend.com/file/783b693a17206081

Best.

Hal

[HAL]

If you are trying to setup a subwoofer, I would recommend Room EQ Wizard to help with the process. 

Runs on most computer platforms and with an inexpensive measurement mic, like a Dayton Audio iMM-6 or iMM-6S calibrated omni mic and TRRS cable, you can make very accurate measurements at your listening position.   

A lot of users out there for help, so that is why I recommend it.  You can even use REW to generate Parametric EQ data for the room for bass management.