Is a Bryston amp as clear as claimed? Does it have harmonic integrity of a good low distortion tube amp? I used to think NO ss amp could do that after hearing many big name superamps that all failed to transmit life. Then I heard the Altmann BYOB chip amp and my prejuduce was nuked, though I still haven't heard another ss amp that can equal tubes in that regard of aliveness.
At our last G2G while listening to the Quad 2905s, Shane made the observation that the McIntosh MC402 was cleaner and less distortion than the tube amps. Despite not lightning up the room with ambient glow. Afterward I confirmed that he was right, midrange clarity was better especially when the going gets rough in big orchestral music, the power really makes it work. The Butler 2250 has the most beautiful clear and satisfying bass I've ever heard. So I would like to get all these benefits in one package. Hopefully the tube premium that I have gotten used to will allow moving to SS with minimal pain.
I ignored Bryston for a while, thinking it just a well built pro audio amp with samo limitations as all moderately prices SS amps, until I saw some nice awards and great reviews coming from reviewers who I respect. Still never heard it though, so the anticipation isn't really too high just yet.
Combine that with the growing urge to jetison the tube headaches and simplify system operation so the family can sit down and listen whenever they want even when I'm not there, and brands like Bryston and Para-Halo come to mind. These both have decent performance, and inter-component integration. With Brystons new CDP, DAC, new 2 box preamp, and 4 or 14B SST, might make a nice sounding system. Another brand in that category I was reading about last couple days was the new NAD Master series, but not sure the sound is snappy enough.
Being a Gemini, the more I scheme about building a homogenized ss unisystem, the more my alter ego is looking at superexotics like Transcendent Sound's "The Beast" and Aikido preamp. Both of which require DIY assembly. I just don't think I'm up for that yet, maybe on the tube homecoming system that will doubtless follow the SS journey.
I don't want to give up the inner light and lightning fast microdetail to which I have grown accustomed. How's Bryston? Any other brands in this category? All opinions warmly welcomed! Let er rip!!
Rich
If you like what the MC402 brings to the table along with the Butler 2250, why not try the Moscode 401HR?
From what I can tell, this amp should be the best of both worlds.
I'd agree. I don't think the Bryston is going to be your answer. The Moscode might do the trick for you
Bryan
Moscode is a nice sounding amp, but overpriced at 6500, IMO. It's still got 2 tube stages, I'm shooting for none. I want more power and reliability too. Thanks for the suggestion guys. I will listen to it again this fall. RMAF 06 it sounded great with Placette in front, but last year I couldn't hear (or see) past the Quads.
Well, if you want uber reliable, no tubes, gutsy bottom end and a nice midrange/good imaging - that points me to Sim Audio or Pass Labs
Bryan
mmm Pass Labs... :drool:
That IS not only what you want. That is what you NEED. :twisted:
haha
I have to agree. I have heard several Bryston amps and in my opionon they are thin and lifeless in comparison to the current Pass Labs amps. I didn't think the Bryston stuff sounded bad, but it just wasn't as good as my Pass Labs.
I think both companies are producing quality products and both will stand behind their stuff, but the Pass Labs stuff is just better sounding - especially if you turn up the voulume.
FYI - I will still try and listen to the new Bryston DAC when I get a chance.
spudco, the Brystons you heard were they the new patented "quad complimentary" circuitry (size 4 and bigger) of the newer SST vintage? Quite a lot has changed since ST versions.
I started checking out Pass Labs and Sim also. Thanks!
If system "tubeyness" is a linear scale from 1 - 10 (yeah yeah, bear with me) all the parts play into the final number somehow. Go for a fatter sounding preamp and big, nonoffensive SS amp. 6SN7s would be the obvious choice here. It's like Big Triode, but in the pre. Aqui se habla DeHavilland.
If that triode thing is what you need, it's gonna be hard to get just in the amp without tube stages. They just ain't the same thing.
When I say "like tubes" I don't mean fat and round and glowing, please pass the sherry. I mean the spatial transparency and tonal accuracy that tubes do better than most ss, basically the speed and organic feeling that reveals more of what's on the recording. All of the other changes that tubes do to the sound I want rid of. The Ushers show any kind of distortion for what it is, so I want as little as possible, plus they need more headroom than any practicle tube amp can deliver. So I don't want triode glory, is that what Pass is like? They seem pretty proud of the 2nd and 3rd order distortion, sweet treble, etc.
Placette active is my idea of perfect "preamp." What is a good analogy of that in power amp?
Thanks
Great triodes aren't fat, round or glowing. The Yamamoto 45 amp I had was none of those, in fact it was a little hyperactive. I wouldn't expect a very good "fatter" preamp to get too plump. I don't think any of them are going to sound like a 300B. I was referring to the good elements about the deep triode sound, not the bad.
What I gather about Pass Labs (as opposed to First Watt) is that they are clean and clear as glass. It's the FW stuff that he's tailoring distortions for tube-like sound. I haven't heard any of them, just going from what I understand from others.
I haven't heard the Placette, so can't help you there.
Quote from: richidoo on July 28, 2008, 06:03:37 AM
spudco, the Brystons you heard were they the new patented "quad complimentary" circuitry (size 4 and bigger) of the newer SST vintage? Quite a lot has changed since ST versions.
I started checking out Pass Labs and Sim also. Thanks!
I did hear the older ST model.
Also, I use a Pass Labs X-1 preamp - with balanced interconnects. I like it. It has been rock solid. Extremely quite and transparent. (I still sometimes daydream of a tube preamp...) I'm not a big fan of the X-1's remote interface - Somewhat of a problem if you use a fancy remote and like to program complex macros.
I still think what you're really after is a tube front end with a big SS amp. That's what you're describing.
Think about something like this http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/home.htm with the Pass or Sim amps. Clean, clear, image like mad, etc.
Bryan
OK, thanks for the clarification guys. I have some work to do, but it will be fun.
Bryan are you talking about Pass class AB or A amps? spudco, can I ask you which Pass amp you are using? Thanks
Rich
Something like the X-350
I good friend of mine recently heard the Pass XA60.5 and said it was very good. Transparency,PRAT,
dynamic life and sound staging were all present and accounted for. Both he and I are looking for neutrality and the ability to just pass the information through without loss or alteration. The XA60.5 meets this criteria.
I would hesitate to extrapolate beyond the XA60.5 and expect the same transparency and life from the higher powered models. Frequently when the rail voltage is raised to increase the power output of the amp
the higher voltage transistors do not sound as good as their lower voltage counterparts and the sound of the amp takes a hit,an unfortunate fact of life. It would certainly be worth hearing his higher powered amps in the current line if you need more power than 60watts/ch. His latest designs are not as dark, have improved transparency and are more dynamic than his older designs.
Scotty
I have the X-350. I have used it for several years. It replaced a Goldmund 28M in my system and I have never looked back. In addition to the Goldmund, I have also owned Plinius solid state amps with these same speakers.
Although I have a large room and have been know to rock the casbah on occasion, I have never even begun to challange this amplifier.
As for the X-1 preamp, I can only say that is "disappears". It seems to be without character. In the past, I used Aloia and Goldmund solid state preamps. The Pass is similar to the Goldmund. I did have a Kora tube preamp for a while with my Plinius amp and it was a good match (and had a great phono section) but somewhat colored. I love the harmonics from tubes but they can be a hassel. I use my system around 19 hours a day and never power it off... That is hard on tubes...
The Pass Labs stuff is truely built to last a lifetime. You might wish to spend a few minutes talking with the folks at Pass Labs. They are extremely helpful and know their products inside and out. They are very happy with the newer versions. I haven't heard them in my home, but a freind who traded up loves his X-250.5. He thinks it has a slightly better midrange.
If I were able to make a change in my system today, after replacing my Audiomeca DAC, I would buy an X-350.5.
Been reading some Pass reviews. Thanks for the comments guys. I will look for a chance to listen to one.
I have the same problem with system play time, I have to retube about every 10 months, which is part of the consideration. It is encouraging to learn that there are ss possibilities that tube lovers are digging without reservation. That's exactly the advice I was looking for.
Rich
Rich, why not just buy tube equipment that doesn't eat tubes? I recently retubed my Joule Electra and Herron after 7 years of problem free operation. My 2A3 monoblocks went 5 years without problems before I lost an output tube. Did I lose performance? Maybe a little ( a real little), but it still sounded better than SS. :lol:
That's part of the trick. Especially in preamps, the tubes usually are run at voltages well under their rating so their lifespan can be quite good. Output tubes in amps on the other hand are usually run harder so their life isn't so pleasant many times.
Bryan
I think I'm getting pretty typical lifetime from the tubes, but like spudco I play music all day. Tube life is rated typical 2500 hours and that goes by in a year for me. I think Manley runs them a little warm, but the sound is great, and it's only a couple hundred bucks to retube.
I'm with your bobrex, I am skeptical that SS can really replace a good tube amp. But there are so many cocky ss amp designers nowadays, they can't all be full of shit, right? I think it's worth a listen. For convenience it would be great to send my tubes the way of the steam locomotive, but I am still true to the final result, so we'll see where it leads.
I owned a 4bsst for 2 years. It was a very good amp. Very clean and neutral without being etchy. I also owned Audio Valve challengers which are tube amps. What the Brystons lacked is the warmth in the mods that tubes offer. But I have no complaints regarding the bryston. Great amp. I hear the 28bsst's are really amazing, but at 8,000 each they are out of my reach (way out)
Bright O Bryston. Only with speakers on the dark side IMO. If you listen to rock only its a winner.
charles
Quote from: rollo on September 09, 2008, 08:36:58 AM
Bright O Bryston. Only with speakers on the dark side IMO. If you listen to rock only its a winner.
charles
I think that was probably more true with the pre-sst versions. The SST changes have added more musicality and smoothness to the Bryston amps. YMMV
28B-SST lauded by his holiness Harry Pearson in newest TAS mag. Review coming, but other reviews have been equally gushing about the delicacy and intimacy combined with almighty power in one box. The amp design is cool. I'm still looking forward to hearing them!
Quote from: richidoo on September 09, 2008, 11:35:58 AM
28B-SST lauded by his holiness Harry Pearson in newest TAS mag. Review coming, but other reviews have been equally gushing about the delicacy and intimacy combined with almighty power in one box. The amp design is cool. I'm still looking forward to hearing them!
They are another one I would love to audition. I wonder if there is a dealer in or near Austin that has them
TX dealers are in Manuel and Houston.
Quote from: richidoo on September 09, 2008, 11:35:58 AM
28B-SST lauded by his holiness Harry Pearson in newest TAS mag. Review coming, but other reviews have been equally gushing about the delicacy and intimacy combined with almighty power in one box. The amp design is cool. I'm still looking forward to hearing them!
Me too. Hey my first amp was Bryston paired to Maggie 3As. Great company who stands behind their products. When I damaged my amp Brston fixed it for FREE and upgraded the transformer as well for FREE. Hoping their new 28B SST.
hoping,
charles
While I haven't heard any of the recent (mid '90's or newer---I'm so out of touch) Bryston amps, I will say the ones I have heard were gritty and strident. They were a great "First amp" as Rollo said. Bryston, indeed, was a step above your Japanese receivers that touted "Discrete Technology" as a high-end feature.
Bryston amps were cool looking, too. Shiny and muscular, with chunky handles and ample heat sinks. They got freaking loud and impressed your friends, (whose hifis consisted of those Jap receivers or, perish the thought, a boom box or walkman). They had a similar effect on teenage boys as Camaros or GTO's. A "wow" factor for the uninitiated.
Pass designs, on the other hand, are spectacular. Dating back to his days as the founder of Threshold Electronics, his amps are fast and fluid. They make hifi sound like music.
Bryston has its fans, certainly, otherwise they wouldn't have stayed afloat in a competitive industry for so long. Still, their products just don't cut it when given serious, mature consideration.
Ok boys for kicks we hooked up an older bryston 4B to the Maggies again. This time though the preamp was an olde VAC Renaissance. Well boys I'd forgotton how much slam these babies produce. With the warmth of the VAC it was truly a great listening experience. The ol 3As never sounded so good. SYNERGY SYNERGY SYNERGY !!!!!!!!
charles
Do you find the Bryston stuffy? On paper it is a perfect amp for me. But I heard 28SST at Denver, way too stuffy and dry. 80+dB feedback I was told, plus lots more in the pre and source. I'm sure the VAC juiced it up some. Rare critiques of the CDP say stuffy and dry staging, the sound of high feedback. Love to hear your take rollo
The new Brystons have been voiced IMO to smooth out the aggressive top end of yore. Its like everything else we have auditioned. I've owned the older $b and St versions. Used them on the Maggies, wonderfull used them with Alons with metal dome tweeters couldn't listen to it.
Years ago IMO a Bryston amp had to have a tubed Pre up front to sound its best. Loved the VAC Renaissance with it. Heaven actually. Talk about dynamics, slam, BASS, detail, soudstage size and imaging. FUgetabout it. Awesome. What it did NOT have without the tubes upfront is the soul, body, emotional impact, weight [ except for bass ] and gestalt of of the newer versions.
Like everything else when set up properly in ones HOME, it can be evaluated properly. If the Maggies were in use a Bryston amp would drive them flavored by a tube somewhere upfront either the Pre or CDP. Now if one is a headbanger then Bryston all the way with PMC speakers. A stairway to heaven for those rockers.
charles
Thanks rollo. I will keep an open mind until I can get one in the house. They offer good value.
Quote from: richidoo on May 21, 2009, 06:40:55 AM
Thanks rollo. I will keep an open mind until I can get one in the house. They offer good value.
Great value and a company that stands behind their product. When I owned by 4BST by accident when on the speaker cables touched and blew it up. My fault. When it was sent for repair they upgraded the trannie for free and fixed it promptly with NO charge.
charles
I just got my ears one one(amp) after many years,, WOW,, certainly worth looking into,, I want to pair it up with the mini and Polk SDA's,, hmmm,,.
Very interesting guys... thanks. I'll try to hear it again too. I called the dealer about it 6 months ago, never called me back. Try try again....