Let's find it! Parameters - should sound "like tubes", not tubes, 200-ish wpc. It can't be that hard, can it?
Would a hybrid like a Moscode or Butler fill the bill? The new Spectron is getting lots of pub as a big watt pusher, might pair up with a great tubed pre quite well. Have you tried the Signature amps from RWA? They're not big but they definitely sound bigger than the numbers suggest.
Let's rally up team!
Quote from: miklorsmith on September 05, 2008, 07:49:37 AM
Let's find it! Parameters - should sound "like tubes", not tubes, 200-ish wpc. It can't be that hard, can it?
Let's rally up team!
Mike:
Rich has listened to and/or auditioned many very fine amps since he purchased the Usher BE-20s. He loves his Manley Snappers and in all fairness to the Snappers they are very good! In my humble opinion (and it is not worth a whole lot) the reality is that an amp or amps that meet Rich's criteria will have to be better than the Snappers. I am certain many amps will meet the objective but the hole left in the wallet create quite a gulp, excuse the expression!
I don't think anyone in the area owns one of the Spectrons but these amps are obtaining a lot of positive press from their owners.
Ken
Thanks Mike! Since I'm such a slow decider, this topic has been on slow simmer for a while... still chewing on recommendations from last month like Pass, and Spectron.
With my old speakers my current electronics were a good match. As I expected, the Ushers exposed everything and highlights the flaws with no mercy. The bass is insufficient with the Snapper / Minimax combo. I can't find a combination of tubes that brings the pair into synergy. I get either great highs or lows, not at the same time.
The new Transcendent GG pre has great synergy with the Snappers. The positive GG kit experience and its great sound has me thinking about building THE BEAST (http://transcendentsound.com/BeastOTL.htm). At first it seems like the opposite of what I have said I want, but on closer examination and consulting with owners for the past few months, it turns out to be more appealing than I would have expected. It makes 160W with very low .2ohm Zout, incredible for OTL. Tube life is very good because the tubes are run very easy. Maintenance is minimal, just an occasional tweak of the bias knob to null offset DC. Owners report it's not fussy and tubes last for many years. Even idle dissipation is only ~300W, hot but no more than Pass and a lot less than any other powerful OTL. The value is good because it's a kit. It all adds up well and still gives great tube tone, OTL presence, plenty of power and bass control. I am hoping that the sonic descriptions of it are true and it is all the the Snappers do and more, clear clean spacey, authoritative, good tone.
But I would love to try a spectron, or CIA D500 or something like that to live with for a few months of cool running unlimited power. Honestly I'm a little afraid of any kind of SS. I worry that in the end, only tubes can sound like tubes and I am destined to be tortured with tubes forever. I don't know if this will turn out to be true, but it remains a pessimistic prejudice of mine, so far. The Pass dealer is in SC and his website has not a word about 2 channel audio, nor Pass, iirc.
Retail prices of Pass and Spectron will probably make BEAST next on the list. I'm nervous about Spectron reliability and service. Any opinions about BEAST or its high power tubular ilk?
Thanks!
Rich
I've only done very small tube amps - no help there. :oops: The Beast sounds very interesting. I do quite fancy the idea of OTLs but I don't have enough experience with them for serious comment.
They're probably not big enough, but my Signature 70.2s let the tube magic from the preamps through. They do space and tone incredibly well with no edge. I have buddies that are Way Tube (more than me) and they find no objection with my setup. That makes me think that must be possible to do SS without pollution. I seriously doubt an ALL SS setup would float my boat but if you stick to the preamp or a hybrid circuit you can get results without pain. Hey, there's my new workout plan! :D
I have my doubts about Spectron, the proponents seem to like stuff I don't. But, they've been at it for quite a while and I haven't heard of reliability issues.
Thanks Mike, would love to hear the Signature 70s, they should be OK for my speakers which are 8ohm/90db. I'm sure I'll get the chance eventually.
Rich, have you had a chance to listen to a McCormack DNA-500 in your system? When I replaced my Levinson 331 with one, I was floored by it. The dynamics and speed were something I had not experienced in my system before. And the power was a great match for my Aerials. If interested, I'll see if I can summon the strength to heft mine to the next g2g. I'd love to hear it compared to a few others in real time.
I second the McCormack DNA-500 and would also look at the Naim NAP-500.
I said this before but the HALO stuff from Parasound would also make my short list.
Thanks, I will check them out. Heard DNA at RMAF last year, and Halo at local dealer. I liked them both. It would be good to hear them at home.
The BEAST sounds perfect... Especially if it's voiced the same as the preamp you already like. It looks like a modernized Dynaco to me. I'm sure there is nothing similar but it conjures that thought with me. (Which is a good thing) Seems like a pretty creative dude. Is there anyone in the US that would let you hear one in your system?
The only negative I'll say.. While on the surface it seems like a good value, resale will be a little more difficult. You basically have to find someone like yourself but is unwilling to build and/or trusts that you built it right. So, be prepared if it doesn't work out. You'll get a lot of encouragement to build it but not a lot of buyers when you're done.
Bottom line to me is positive. For whatever reason the BEAST just seems to make sense for you and your system. It just 'should' work. I hope it does.
-C
I have been exchanging emails with a customer of mine over the last few days who is on the hunt for a power cord for his amp. He speaks very highly of it and perhaps it might be another one to add to your list.
I haven't heard it but I must admit that on paper at least, I'm already a fan. I love high wattage, high current designs (think Parasound).
Sim Audio MOON W-8.
http://www.simaudio.com/moonw8.htm (http://www.simaudio.com/moonw8.htm)
I'd second the SIM in a heartbeat. I think it's exactly the kind of amp that would be a great match for the Ushers.
Bryan
I'd bet that Sim will sound slow with those huge PS caps. You need lots of little caps to get the goods delivered quickly w/ ss. (just my opinion)
Bryan gets credit for Pass and Sim, from a month or two ago. ;) Thanks for the reminder though, I couldn't remember Sim even though I read up on it back then. Sim appears to be a pretty good value. http://www.simaudio.com/pr_i-7.htm
http://passlabs.com/pdf/product%20lit/int-150-lit_lres.pdf
Neither will be at RMAF :(
Beast resale is a good thing to consider. Not as attractive as buying a used amp. Hearing it would be worthwhile to make a decision like that. But I won't find the Pass integrated used either.
Rich
Dartzeel anyone. Expensive yes, but man o man does it sing. Never thought SS could be that good.
charles
Not the H-Cat?
Quote from: Norm on October 04, 2008, 05:07:42 PM
Not the H-Cat?
Norm the H-cat pre is the winner in their lineup not the amp IMO. Rich Parasound Halo for SS or Music Reference or Moscode for your Ushers.
charles
Thanks rollo, always nice to see you pop in :D
My friend Henry (bmr3hc) brought over his MR RM9 last Tuesday, with 6550s. It was excellent. Super bass control, lots of power and delicacy. It was very impressive. Snappers have a little more 3D staging, etherial magical presence, but the RM9 is more solid and ballsier. For classical music that I love Snappers are close to ideal. For the funk, blues and jazz Henry likes, that RM9 takes it, at least o the Ushers. I have also heard the Halo JC1s at the local dealer, I loved those too. I love the relaxed, floating down the river of warm water feeling everytime I hear class A SS. I think would like to try that for a while. Parting with my beloved Snappers will be difficult. I'm trying to find a way to keep those - maybe a hiding spot in the attic??
rollo, have you heard the H-Cat amp or complete H-Cat system? I have, but with single driver speakers which did not fully inform me. I'm still interested in that too. Thanks
Rich
Rich not their latest edition. You know that Snapper can hide at my place for a while. Then some how by magic it returns for free. She'll never know.
charles :lol:
I know you would give them lots of love, but I think I would be too jealous.
Thanks rollo. I hope to hear the H-Cat at full song this summer.
Rich
It is always a pleasure to hear the Usher speakers. When we first hooked up the Ushers to my amp 8 ohm tap, the sound was pretty good overall but certainly not as musical as the snappers in vocals and upper range. But what a difference when we hooked it up to the 4 ohm tap. Still not as musical as the snappers with the EL 34 tubes, but man the bottom end was impressive for an amp built in 1986. The 6550 tubes just does not have the "magic" of the EL34 tubes. So its a trade off of the magic for lower end control and power.
I am looking to try the KT88 tubes and hoping this might give me the best of both worlds.
If you need a house sitter for a weekend, to baby sit the Ushers.....
Henry
Anytime Henry!!
I thought your amp was the overall winner. But maybe it was just a case of greener pastures, we both liked each other's better. To me the RM9 was more dynamic, more controlled, quieter and bass control extended a half octave lower. More power is always a nice thing. The output transformers are bigger on the RM9 and the tubes make more power too.
I saw some used JC1s on the goner this week, $6k! That was the list price not too long ago! Now it's 9k!!! For Parasound! I think they are getting proud, as they should be. Last year there was a half dozen pairs on there at once for $3k.
Two days ago I got the crazy idea to try my Altmann BYOB amp on the Ushers. It was packed and ready to ship from an ad on AudioXchange. But nobody wanted my poor little amp :( so I ripped it open and powered it up, originally think I would try it as headphone amp. It is still only about 7 watts on the 6 ohm Ushers, but man is it beautiful. Dead silent background, and clearer than any amp I have ever heard. And I can play it in the summertime when thunderstorms come every evening in prime listening time. So I have some ideers on how to scale up the battery powered chips to handle the speakers at full volume. I'm also planning to build the Pass F5 and B1.
Rich, check this out: http://www.theaudioxchange.com/index.php?a=2&b=703
$7k but if you're in the market for it, I'm sure you can beat the guy down. Sunny is his name, a dealer from Cal. I'd guess those are demos but have seen his ads for brand new units offered at huge discounts.
Rich
I believe Mike has a McCormick amp that might fit the bill. I don't think he is selling his, but a listen might be worth the price of admission at least. If I remember, he even suggested bringing that monster amp over for a listen with the ushers..... count me in on that session.
Henry
There is a nice pair of Pass XA60.5's on Audiogon for $6500 and still falling. I so want those but it just isn't going to happen at the moment :drool: You should buy those, both to put me out of my misery and so I know they went to a good home :)
I have heard this amp and if I was in the market I think this would be my last ss amp. The smoothness and naturalness of tubes, incredibly quiet, articulate, and has an ease of presentation that I enjoy. It also has a showpiece look to it especially given that it is huge. However, I have only heard it via balanced connections in which this particular amp does not have.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1240068904&/Accustic-Arts-Amp-Ii-High-perf
Regards,
Mike
Yes, I think those XAs would be perfect! Used examples aren't very common, either... I shoulda kept that Quad cash in the richidoo rotating fund. Tom you are a bad influence (keep it up) ;)
With any luck I might get a chance to hear Mike's DNA soon. On his Aerial 10Ts :drool:
I rode in from the airport to RMAF with Steve McCormack. What a sweet guy. We talked about his new preamp, and he told me some old stories about trade shows from hifi lore. I really enjoyed that ride, there was nobody else in the van except an old professor returning from 2 years of biology field research in Africa. It seemed like two of the smartest dudes in Denver at that moment on either side of me. God was sending me a message : "You dumbass!"
Thanks for the links Dragan and Mike
I used to own both a DNA-500 and Aerial 10t's, though at different times. Both very good pieces for sure. I used a pair of Jeff Rowland 7's and later BEL 1001 mono's with the Aerials and those speakers just chewed them up. The DNA is a very nice amp and yes, Steve is a great guy. I have a long story about him helping me out with my amp on a Saturday afternoon from his home in California, even though he'd sold the brand to CJ long before, and I'd bought the amp used. Didn't seem to matter to him at the time, which says a lot about him.
Rich, if you ever want to borrow the DNA-500, I'm sure we can work out a time. I replaced a Levinson 331 with it and whoa, what an improvement.... Dynamics, transient response, and a bass to die for. The 10Ts love power and the DNA-500 fits the bill perfectly.
Haven't heard from Shane since last weekend regarding the Jaco, but hopefully we'll be able to work out a time to do some listening soon.
Cool! 8)
I am burning to hear what the Wyred amps sound like. I know this is a bit off topic but they have such a nice review, are not expensive and I have had enjoyable chat with the "man", since I also have ICE module amp. Powerfull, cool-running, well thought out. Just a thought...
Quote from: shep on February 22, 2009, 09:37:16 AM
I am burning to hear what the Wyred amps sound like. I know this is a bit off topic but they have such a nice review, are not expensive and I have had enjoyable chat with the "man", since I also have ICE module amp. Powerfull, cool-running, well thought out. Just a thought...
They are nice and for the money tough to beat.
I liked them so much that I recently signed a deal deal with the folks at Wyred / Cullen to be their sole Canadian dealer. As I sit here I'm listening to the ST-500. At $1500.00 this thing is a steal.
As most know I already have Spectron Audio but I needed to add something at a lower price point and Wyred4Sound seemed like a good fit. After playing around with a few of their amps, I'm glad I did it.
For those who care, Wyred's new pre-amp (STP) starts shipping this week!
Quote from: Black Sand Cable on February 22, 2009, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: shep on February 22, 2009, 09:37:16 AM
I am burning to hear what the Wyred amps sound like. I know this is a bit off topic but they have such a nice review, are not expensive and I have had enjoyable chat with the "man", since I also have ICE module amp. Powerfull, cool-running, well thought out. Just a thought...
They are nice and for the money tough to beat.
I liked them so much that I recently signed a deal deal with the folks at Wyred / Cullen to be their sole Canadian dealer. As I sit here I'm listening to the ST-500. At $1500.00 this thing is a steal.
As most know I already have Spectron Audio but I needed to add something at a lower price point and Wyred4Sound seemed like a good fit. After playing around with a few of their amps, I'm glad I did it.
For those who care, Wyred's new pre-amp (STP) starts shipping this week!
Good luck. with your new line.
charles