I recently read an interesting essay by Srajan Ebaen in the "Industry Features" section of 6moons. Essentially, it posits there is precious little absolute truth in this hobby. An extension of this observation is that angst, anguish, and compromise are more the rule than exception. We are forever questing for betterment and ultimately our own version of perfection, though defining our own personal view of perfection is exceedingly difficult. Knowing how to get there is even harder.
Is the goal "flat frequency response"? As an owner of a TacT preamp which can make a full-range system "flat" in-room, I can say "flat" is generally undesirable. Even our ears do not have "flat" response, being more sensitive to midrange at quieter volumes and having flatter response as the volume goes up. Do we tune for quiet or loud volumes? TacT has a variable loudness feature in their newer models to compensate, but that is another matter.
Many cry "Make it sound like live!" How many recordings have that goal? Compression on nearly all recordings assures the failure of this idea. Should we try to replicate what the engineer heard during the mastering process? Maybe, though I expect most recording monitors would be considered boring by many audiophiles.
Sharing measurements can provide information engineers find useful, but reading Stereophile reviews shows the relationship between measurements and subjective feeling is dubious at best.
Subjectivists, me included, inform others to pursue what sounds good. This is a great ideal but breaks down in sharing with others. If someone on an audio forum says "I LOVE THIS", what does it mean to me? Without knowing preferences, gear, and experiences of the writer, there is nothing a reader can use to make their own choices.
Somehow, we decide not only what sound we like but what framework of decisionmaking distills our choices in how to spend our money. I use my own ears and intuition, and a few reviewers' opinions and tips. I have a few audio buddies whose ears I trust and their views are important too.
Using this haphazard "strategy", I have wound up with the following setup:
Transport – Modwright CDP or Red Wine Audio Squeezebox 3
Preamp – TacT 2.2XP
DAC – Altmann Attraction (main array only)
Main array amplifiers - Yamamoto A-08s or Red Wine Audio Signature 70 monoblocks
Subwoofer amplifier – Crown K2
Speakers – Zu Definition Pros
Cables – various, primarily Zu
The TacT is capable of performing all functions in the digital realm. It has built-in DACs or can send a digital signal for outboard processing. I have always used the built-in DAC for subwoofer duties but have never been satisfied with them for mains.
My view is that instrumental Tone is the cornerstone of quality audio reproduction. Accurate portrayal of dynamic relationships is nearly equal and arguably intrinsic to convincing Tone. Both qualities live centrally in the midrange, which I believe is the necessary beginning of great sound.
My discovery of battery-powered, non-oversampling DACs with the Red Wine Audio Monica-2, then the Ack! DAC 2.0, much like single-driver, crossoverless speakers, showed me a new way of listening. Focusing more on how the reproduction makes the listener Feel instead of how it "sounds" paves the way for a personal shift. NOS DACs may sound soft around the edges but allow immersion and relaxation where digital reproduction can promote analysis and tension.
I consider the nonoversampling sound to be a move toward holistic presentation and away from audiophile detail. Focus is on lithe transition of notes rather than plucked strings. Much digital is strong with string and weak on wood where my preference is toward decay and tonal richness. Instrumental separation is often touted but digital can remove performers from their proper context in the band and present each separately, supernaturally.
NOS apologists would say the softness in the treble is better than the disorganized noise characteristic of so much digital gear. Softer transients? A necessary penalty for maintaining singularity of performance. The purely emotional ears can just let this sound wash over, forgetting all the normal audiophilisms.
However, the analytical brain does not rest, asking how the strengths may be maintained while adding the extension and dynamic pop of more conventional solutions.
Enter the Altmann Attraction DAC. This is a nonoversampling DAC without a case. Rather the circuit board is press-fit into a treated spruce board, said to minimize effects of resonances. It is available with a proprietary jitter-reduction circuit called JISCO, and can be upgraded to decode sample rates from redbook standard of 44.1 khz up to 192 khz.
I used this machine primarily from the digital outputs of my TacT 2.2XP preamp. Somehow, the two did not get along perfectly. The TacT outputs a 24-bit signal where the Altmann is a 16-bit machine. Both TacT and Altmann said this should not have mattered but even shipping both units to TacT for a couple of weeks did not cure the problem.
Essentially, the problem was related to a rushing noise at quieter volumes. I was able to listen extensively to the unit at louder volumes, though I sometimes do enjoy my system playing quietly and this was not an effective, long-term solution. I was able to use the volume control out of my Red Wine modded Squeezebox 3 and also used the unit out of a Modwright Music Hall CDP with none of these noise problems.
Without question, the Attraction DAC aligns sonically with the nonoversampling camp. Immediately with the first few notes, it was obvious that this is a piece that quiets the soul and promotes long listening sessions. The lack of "digital sound" is obvious.
This plays out in the performance. Musicians are part of the band, not occupying individual and separate spaces. Second and third harmonics of instruments are clearly portrayed with long and sultry decays. I find the stereotypical digital presentation to be skewed toward the leading edge of the note, such as the plucking of strings and popping of a drumhead. This can be exciting but misses much of the instrument's personality.
The NOS sound is good at revealing these harmonics but generally worse at the leading edges. Dynamic pop is deemphasized and details are obscured. The Altmann is much better than the NOS average with appropriate sharpness and detail retrieval. Add superb organic flow and this is an intoxicating piece of audio equipment.
Treble response is quite good, and struck cymbals have long, shimmering decays. The midrange and upper bass are fantastic with loads of texture, strong leading energy, and outstanding harmonics and tone. I cannot comment on deep bass response, as my system has powered subwoofers below 65 hz.
I hope this review gives some context to my own priorities related to audio and what about this DAC is so (quietly) spectacular to me.
Hey guys, here's the first draft. If there's anything you'd like to see added, let me know. It'll go up on AC in a few days.
It's fun to find a component that 'does it' for ya, right?
It's very hard to put what we hear into words...you done good.
WEEZ
Looks good.... :wink:
Now I'm just wondering....the TacT....did you ever try a tube preamp in your system ?
QuoteNOS DACs may sound soft around the edges but allow immersion and relaxation where digital reproduction can promote analysis and tension.
A more relaxed sound- a good tube preamp.....with is nice.
I've had a Modwright 9.0SE which was great sonically but didn't give the functionality the TacT allows. My opinion is that even the softening tubes can provide does not eliminate digital glare. Depending on the amount of softening, it can hide some of the problems but some detail gets thrown out too. I want it all. :D
Careful! :!:
Once you get hooked on NOS, you're not going to be able to go back to the other side.
The funny thing is that I'm currently using a Lessloss 2004 DAC which flies in the face of all that NOS stuff and is still very musically convincing. It's a very different beast - much more "neutral" and detailed. The panel at my recent listening session preferred the Yamamoto to the Red Wine Sig. 70s, but I wouldn't be surprised if that flipflopped with a mellower DAC.
Right now I'm using the Lessloss/RWA combination and it's really nice. For an NOS/Tube guy this combination seems too clean and clear at first but after acclimating to it, the Yamamoto sounds a little syrupy. As far as SET amps go, the Yammie is anything but syrupy. So, I guess the best DAC and amp are the ones I have playing!
Quote from: HantraCareful! :!:
Once you get hooked on NOS, you're not going to be able to go back to the other side.
Speaking of which B.....you should have a listen to that Paradisea dac....nice little dac.....smooth.
I say this having heard a Scott Nixon dac....there have been a few in the Rave that have had them.... :wink:
Very nicely said. I agree that getting the tone right is essential, closely followed by dynamics and linearity. I have no fondness for components, primarily speakers, that appear to change tone as the level changes.
Really looking forward to my time with the Altmann. :D
Mike
We may be having further technical issues. The second battery may be kaput. If that's the case, the charger is toast which isn't a big deal except that another battery will need to be replaced at $30 a pop. It's highly annoying.
Quote from: miklorsmithWe may be having further technical issues. The second battery may be kaput. If that's the case, the charger is toast which isn't a big deal except that another battery will need to be replaced at $30 a pop. It's highly annoying.
Sorry to hear your having problems... :?
Stop #2:
First off miklorsmith really deserves a big thanks for making this audition tour possible. How I got in this queue I don't really remember but I am glad I did. While I do not want to prejudice you, I must say that you guys downstream are going to find this piece most interesting.
I really relished the idea of listening to a piece of audio equipment without having first shelled out the cash for it. No longer would my ears be pressed by the psychology of having made a big purchase. (Especially in this case. With the whole DAC exposed as it is on a piece of pine it gets real easy to make a list of other things you can get for $1K or so.) The old scenario of "I just bought this thing so I am going to find out why I like it so much" becomes "I want to buy this thing, so I am going to find out why I like it so much". There is a difference.
Of course there is another side to that coin. You can't keep it. You have to unplug it and put your old (old hat) DAC back in. That may turn out to be painful. More on that later.
My setup for the audition:
Maxtor 500 GB HD / PC
Squeezebox (SB3) modded by RWA running on battery.
Altmann Attraction DAC
RWA Signature 70s monoblocks
VMPS RM40s
Cabling - various - nothing unusual.
As is being mentioned in these threads, I had some problems with the whole setup. It actually played off my Squeezebox right of the bat no problem. But after about 10 minutes, things started sounding a little goofy. It sounded like my speakers were clipping - but for no reason. Clipping, when it happens, usually tracks with the dynamics of the piece. Not this time. Eventually it sounded like half way between two stations on my FM dial.
Those first 10 minutes though were something else. I heard enough in those 10 minutes to want to buy the thing. In a word, what I heard was wetness. Here is another way of expressing it. Going from my Scott Nixon (RWA modded) battery DAC to the Altmann was like going from grape juice to wine. I know those are different metaphors. The idea is that it had a richness and a life that made the SN sound a bit dry and wooden.
After some panicky moments (days actually) where I thought I broke the Altmann and thankfully determined that the battery was the problem, I was back up and running. I was on to evaluation. One thing I learned is that the demo disc which is going to be making the rounds on the audition tour wasn't for me. Not that the music wasn't to my liking. It's that I had to evaluate with music that I know.
For example, Billy Budd, Benjamin Britten's great opera, and one of my favorites had some moments where massed strings had an incredible solidity and bite that the SN only hinted at. Reduced jitter? Probably. Brass ensemble work, trombones especially, started to approach that ringing wave of power that I know from experience. Diana Krall's Tribute to Nat King Cole album, track 7, "Hit That Jive, Jack" features a duet with Diana and someone. It was only about two stereos ago that I even realized it was a duet. Each improvement to my systems has revealed more. With Altmann, it was the best yet. Most telling was "Last Rose of Autumn" track 7 from "The Great Dobro Sessions" . Dobro music is great for revealing emotions. That's what all those slides are about. Well, the Altmann was dripping here. It wasn't some tubey sonic signature that I'm talking about. I am talking about Stacy Phillips' dobro playing. Just ridiculously humanly rich.
There is one demo track that I must comment on. "Keep the Bugs of Your Glass and the Bears off Your Ass" by The Bad Plus (whatever that is). I am guessing this is a demo track for the purposes of demonstrating bass reproduction. Well the Altmann just smokes the SN on the bass lines. It was actually a bit scary. A growling drive I never heard before.
So as I listened for a few days, generally enjoying things, and working out how I was going to pay for the Altmann, something psycho-acoustically very interesting was happening. As time went on, I began to suspect that the Altmann wasn't materially different from my SN. That is, I didn't think I could A/B the two with any reliability at all. Whether that was true or not, I never tested. I wasn't really all that interested in swapping things in and out, back and forth. But as I listened, I couldn't really capture that initial wine vs. grape juice sense. Not saying it had left. I just couldn't say for sure that I wasn't hearing things. There were even tracks that had that all too familiar "my $8K stereo still sounds like a victrola".
Before I go any further, I must throw in the big caveat on all this: I have a pretty good case of tinnitus.(Last time I checked, the music needs to be more than a steady 85 dB to drown out the ringing.) In fact, I listen to music as much as I do simply as a way to escape tinnitus - not that I listen to it loud enough to drown it out. Tinnitus, obviously, has the undesirable effect of masking many of the details that better music reproduction equipment is supposed to offer. I was well aware as I listened to the Altmann that much of its greatness was being lost on my own damaged ears. But, initially I know I heard some sweet rich music in my living room.
So, how was it putting the SN back in? Well, oddly, going the other direction has not been like going forward was. This is partly because the SN modded and on battery power is no slouch. With at least this one exception: the "Keep the Bugs of Your Glass and the Bears off Your Ass" track clearly shows in an inescapable way at least where the Altmann comes out on top.
I do have some issues though. The instructions say you need to unplug the power cables from the unit while charging. I see that area as a point of failure. If the connectors for power were to break from all the plugging and unplugging, (like my laptop's did) it would be most unfortunate. I see it as a likelihood. Why the Altmann hasn't been engineered with a better battery solution, a la RWA - thanks Vinnie - I don't get.
Anyway, thanks again to miklorsmith for his generous offer of this audition tour. I am anxious to hear how it stacks up to some of the other equipment down the road.
It would be helpful if there was some basic info on these DAC's... you've certainly peaked my interest in the Altmann.
However, what are the full names of the gear you're experimenting with... where do you buy them, how much do they cost, weigh, dimensions? Are they kits or complete? Do I need to tube roll with them? Are the battery-operated or do they plug into a wall? etc. etc...
I may be dense or just not in the know... but I'm interested in putting the Altmann and/or the Lessloss into the mix of my latest comparo's.
Thanks,
Carl
They're both battery units, though the new Lessloss uses AC for the digital portion and , MKII version has a soft recharge function that allows the unit to play continuously while charging. The Altmann can be configured with any 12V SLA battery, even a car battery which would give 200 hours of continuous playing time.
Here are the links to the two pieces:
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm
http://www.lessloss.com/ (great digital reference, even if you don't buy anything from them)
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0506/zero_oversampling_dac.htm
After spending time with the Altmann courtesy of miklorsmith, I finally had time to write up some thoughts.
Pardon the link to a discussion on AC but it's tightly related.
I have been fortunate enough to participate in the demo tour of the Altmann Attraction DAC run by Mike Smith.
First a little bit about my values, goals and objectives in regards to audio reproduction. First and foremost is tonal quality. If the instruments and voices don't sound realistic it doesn't matter what else the system does well as I can't get past artificial tone. Of course all systems are artificial but many can get the basic tone correct.
The next thing that causes me happiness or distress is the high frequency presentation. This is the area where most digital front ends fail for my tastes. My current digital source is a very heavily modified (analog section) Squeezebox 2. While I like it better than any other digital I've owned and most that I've heard it pales in comparison to my analog source in this regard. Even good digital sounds pretty lame IMO compared to vinyl.
During my time with the Altmann a few friends came over with some additional toys to play with, so I had the opportunity to compare the Attraction DAC to a few other devices. My primary comparison was with my much modified SB2, this was one of the first ones modified by Bolder Cable and I have since modified it several more times. As I'm friends with Wayne at Bolder he's been kind enough discuss his mods with me and as I'm a DIY type I generally do all my own work. My SB2 and power supply are essentially the same as Bolder's top offerings in regards to the analog outputs. My SB2 does not have any of the digital output mods as I don't have a stand alone DAC. I used my SB as the digital source for nearly all of my listening with the Altmann. I also had the opportunity to compare it a fairly heavily modified Slim Devices Transporter and a Monica II non oversampling DAC. There is quite a bit about the comparisons to the other devices in this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=37662.0
I listen primarily to Jazz but also have a lot of other music depending on the mood but for this I used pieces I listen to or have heard numerous times.
Since I can't get past bad tone I'll start with that. Tonally I found the Altmann to be very good, in particular vocals and stringed instruments sounded very good, very rich and full. It was one of the first things I noticed so we were off to a good start.
Regarding the bass, I found the Altmann and the SB2 to be very similar. Others have mentioned the Altmann had better or more extended bass than their Squeezeboxes. In my system this was not the case. Looking at the circuit board I noticed that the Altmann uses 3.3uF output caps, this is the same value as my SB2, so the -3dB point should be the same.
In the area of high frequency reproduction I had the initial impression of less extension in the Altmann but after a while I decided this was not it, the difference was more like a softer HF presentation. I suspect this is a result of the non oversampling architecture and I can see why people are fond of this. In a less damped room or with aggressive speakers or electronics I would find this much easier to live with in the long term.
Then there is imaging and spatial presentation. This seems to be an area where there is less agreement on what is important in a system. For me I enjoy a system where the sounds of the instruments and singers escape the speakers and where it has the ability to present the low level ambiance cues. For me those low level cues affect the reality of the presentation, even though I know many of them are artificial. I just enjoy the sense of a hall or space. I found the Altmann to do quite well in this area, depending of course on the recording. Interestingly, the SB and the Altmann were somewhat opposite in regards to how the spatial information was presented. On some recordings the Altmann presented layers to the music hat I hadn't heard before but on others it was closed in while the SB would remove the speakers. The caused me to wonder if there is something in the way the music was encoded that makes it somehow different when decoded by an OS vs Non OS DAC. I don't know of anything that would cause this but it popped into my mind while listening.
In the previously mentioned thread there is much discussion of running the Altmann on an expensive linear power supply VS a battery. As part of that listening session Wayne connected a capacitor bank to his SLA and to me it sounded better with the cap bank connected than it did off of straight battery but not as good as the linear supply. As I was still curious about this after Wayne took his toys and went home, I built up a cap bank to use with the Altmann. This consisted of a 15,000uF cap, a 220uF cap and a .1uF cap in parallel along with a switch to connect and disconnect it to the power supply.
I found I preferred the sound with the cap bank engaged. The sound seemed less constrained and more open with the caps turned on. With Mike's permission I've included this with the DAC so that others can experiment with this as well and hopefully report their thoughts.
Did I prefer the Altmann to my SB overall? No but there are some things I like better about the Attraction, in particular the way it has with vocals and stringed instruments. I could be quite happy with the Altmann but I like by current setup a bit better.
Thanks again to Mike for making this possible. It was great to listen to the Altmann Attraction DAC and I very much enjoyed my time with it and had no desire to remove it from the system. For me that is a very good thing. I've put entirely too many components in the system that make we want to remove them, either immediately or after living with them for a few days. The Altmann never did that and that is a very good thing. Very much worth the time for an audition I'm sure it will find many fans, I count myself as one.
System Info:
Source - much modified Slim Devices Squeezebox 2 with gold Bybees.
Preamp - none, connected direct to Marchand XM-44 electronic crossover.
Amps - mids/highs - R.E. Designs LNPA 150, bass - Rotel 1080
Speakers - Meadowlark Blue Heron 2 modified for active amplification. XO from bass to midrange is at 275Hz, 4th order LR active, mid/high is at 4kHz, 1st order passive.
ICs - DIY design using Neotech shielded twisted pair silver cable with the shield connected to ground through a low pass filter.
Speaker cables - 10GA twisted pair for bass and Analysis Plus Oval 9 for mid/highs.
Power - BPT BP-2.5 Ultra balanced power unit. PC's are assorted DIY stuff. The seem to work well.
Mike