I was just wondering if there has been a further upgrade in Gover's ic cables since the group by. I haven't heard a peep since. Are you who have bought them still liking the or moved on to better things (as is our tendancy) I am not so sure anymore that they fit my system, but unless I hear something else that should be better, I can't know for sure. Your thoughts?
I've been wondering the same thing. My system's been in a state of limbo for over a year now. In my current setup I'm still using the Grover's and of all the versions I like the most recent 'SC' model of IC. (still not nuts about the nomenclature)
He seemed to be working hard to keep up with feedback and make improvements based on his customers' comments. He was going to design a new site at one point also. Did that happen?
In any case, his SC cables are still very good in a lot of ways. The white/white a couple versions previous to that are some my favorite 'budget' cables. I think they were around $100/pair.
-C
Grover's site is here... http://www.groverhuffman.com (http://www.groverhuffman.com)
He was waiting until he got the patent filed. Site looks great and he's expanded into speaker and power cables as well. I'm using his SC analog and digital ICs and very pleased with them.
Has anyone had a chance to try his speaker cables?
Hi Everyone, I've been very busy. I'm always amazed by the importance wire-cables make in sound. Yesterday I changed a 6-inch piece of wire in my preamp and was stunned by the improvement. I'm always searching for better incredible. I have changed the SC cables and the new design is stunning. I've labeled the new design (SC.) mostly because it's similar overall but so much cleaner with more mid range presence, and refinement. My speaker cable has changed also with a different blend of copper and silver, and the addition of my carbon nickel shield. It's an amazing cable, and I guarantee it'll dramatically improve your musical enjoyment. I do not change the design much now, as the performance of my cables is IMHO so musically satisfying. I'll let any of you guy's trade up to my new cable for $50 (1 meter pair RCA). I know you'll love the new Cables. I'm pleased you've seen my Website, if you have any suggestions about the site please let me know.
Great question shep! You are still kingOP
Thanks for your reply Grover, it's nice to know you are still watching in! The new website is simple and effective. Nice to have that. I recommend the cables once in a while and people wanna see a website with prices. Grover got his patent approved maybe a year ago.
I still use the graphite colored S RCA interconnects in my system. I have swapped in JPS Superconductor3 on a few occasions and it was not a :shock: difference like it was changing from Anticable copper IC, but it is slightly better than the S because it is quieter but not any clearer. S is unshielded, and Carl says the original SC is quieter than the S. I don't mean quieter noise, I mean quieter ring. I have tried Carl's first gen SC a couple times, but didn't sit down and compare to the S.
Grover wires hold their value very well, especially with the group buy prices we received last year. Grover would you be interested in doing another group buy? I might be up for it. In the last GB the speaker cables were only a rumor and there were no power cables. I did audition a pair of Grover S biwire speaker cables. We had a large get together soon after they arrived, comparing about 8 different speaker wires on bigfish's SP Tech Timepieces. iirc, the $400 Grover wires placed 2nd to the $3000 JPS Superconductor3, and the Grovers only had about 40 easy hours on them. They were still changing at that point and didn't settle down until 50-75 hours. Great stuff. Clear tone and huge stage. The new SCs look completely different.
We have two members of AN who manufacture excellent power cables, so the comparisons would be inevitable. The other thing I gotta say is that people in NC can order new JPS cables from hometheaterdoc at very good prices which he is not allowed to advertise publicly, so that is also a great ongoing opportunity.
Rich
Rich always great to read your posts. I think the new IC's'll impress you, they're wonderful (IMHO). I've improved the speaker cable tremendously since you heard my S bi-wires. I suspect my speaker cables would now equal or better the $3000 JPS, it'd be a fun comparison. I'm open to any comparison fun, always inspires and keeps the creative juices flowing. I'm open to a group buy, I think you guys will be stunned by my new speaker cable. I'd love to have a PC group comparison. It's always fun with you guys.
Cool, let's do it.
Grover, please send Rich and me a PM with what you'd like to cover in the group buy, prices, stipulations, etc. Look over the details of the last group buy and just make your changes and send it to us.
After that, Rich and I will draw straws to find out who gets the 'pleasure' of running this thing. ;)
Thanks,
Carl
I saw this thread this morning and alerted Grover so that he could choose to respond himself (rather than me "letting any cats out of the bag").
I have had and used 10-foot Grover SC bi-wire speaker cables since early 2008.
See my comments at http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1156.0 (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1156.0)
I sent those to Grover for upgrade in January and received new version Grover SC bi-wires
on February 10th of this year, so the new ones have been in use for 5 weeks or so.
The new version bi-wires outperform the previous version in my system
(which changed somewhat in late December).
Main system change is a custom dual ZapFilter mod to my Denon 3930 player by Matt Anker of sacdmods.com. ("DigiPete" over on Head-Fi sent his Denon 3930 to Matt for a single ZapFilter mod and within two weeks Matt purchased a stock machine to modify for his own personal use and it is still his reference digital player).
I had Matt install two separate ZapFilter analog output stages for the two-channel stereo circuit (which uses the two PCM 1792 current output DACs in parallel) and for the front left/right of the multi-channel circuit (as the stereo circuit can only output a "mix-down" of 5.1 material such as SACD/DVD-A). I also had Matt add balanced output XLRs for each of the ZapFilters.
This mod improved the Denon 3930 sonics considerably.
See http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD3930.htm (http://www.sacdmods.com/DVD3930.htm) for Matt's comments on the sound of the singly modded player (with which I completely concur) and see the very last section
DVD-3930CI Dual ZapFilter Mod
for Matt's description of my custom mod and pictures.
February 10th I also received two pairs new version Grover SC interconnects w/RCAs which had no "direction arrow" on the labels. My guess is that these ones have a different mix of silver and copper ribbons, as mentioned by Grover today.
Last week Grover shipped me two pairs even newer version Grover SC interconnects which I have not received but expect any day. I think these will be the Grover "SC." (SC dot) which Grover mentioned today. After listening tests and once things stabilize, I may send all earlier version Grover SC ICs for upgrade.
I received one original version Grover power cord last year, which came with standard grade Marinco/Wattgate connectors and I immediately sent it back to Grover and ordered some cryoed Oyaide -004 terminations shipped directly to Grover to remake that cord and another one. Upon receiving the two upgraded Grover power cords, I used them in listening tests comparing with 2 Black Sand Violets Z1s with Oyaide -004s and 2 TelWire cords (which come with Oyaide -004s as standard) on my stock Denon 3930 and my Modwright SWL9.0 Signature tubed linestage. I preferred the TelWires power cords on both components. See post at http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=39143.20" (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=39143.20")
Grover saw my comments and said he had an improved version power cord and I sent him the originals to swap my Oyaide -004s onto the newer version power cords. I received these on February 10 and from initial listening these sound closer to the TelWires than the original Grover version did.
I plan to perform a new round of detailed listening tests of the different power cords upon receipt and break-in of the latest Grover "SC." interconnects.
Groan :shock: I knew it! I knew I shouldn't ask. Now I've gone and done it. Ok so Grover if you send me your address again I will ship off my pair of spotless sc's for whatever is newer and better (HOPE!) along with some cash. (nobody heard me say that) Gotta do what a man's gotta do..ALSO I have been using single core OCC wire as speaker wire for a while now and I'm ready to move upward (unless there's a compelling reason not to) This is a financial stretch which I can't do (no matter how reasonable Grover's stuff is. Unless someone like me has been using solid core and finds from direct comparison that his/your speaker cables beat them hand's down. Then and only then. I hate this endless round of ungrading (no offense it's part of the nervosa game), but like the good little soldier I am.....I am helpless and seriously hungering for even more refined sound. So off we go....thank guys for picking up on this and carrying the ball. You are a gents.
I used anticable SCs in the beginning, solid OFCC. They ring like crazy. I was glad to get rid of them, but my replacements were $3000 list so no wonder they were better. Anticables were $80/pair for 8feet, OK for the money, less so for high power speakers, IMO.
Hey, if you postpone girlfriend season one extra month this summer then you can afford new SCs. :lol:
:shock: what girlfriend? What session? Am I missing something? I never heard the solid core ring but maybe I don't know what that sounds like. They are very transparent, also short lenghts and off the floor with carboard seperators. MAybe this ringing is what I don't like??? Hmmm I guess I better save up for Grover's spkr cables. :(
Quote from: richidoo on March 18, 2009, 10:17:07 AM
Hey, if you postpone girlfriend season one extra month this summer then you can afford new SCs. :lol:
All these years and I didn't know there was a season... unless one counts the monthly schedule as a season. :duh
I might have to see if I can scrape together some cash if a GB occurs, mebbe I can get a pair of IC's to try.
Okay, If I am following this thread correctly the Grover SC cables I purchased from Grover last year have been replaced by a new and improved version which are named SC? The upgrade in sound quality from the "S - Graphite" edition we purchased during last Group Buy to the SC edition that I now own was substantial. I know that Grover has a great ear and if he says the new ones are better then I can see myself going down the upgrade path. :duh Obviously, it will mean more money devoted to ICs but the worse part for me is going through another IC break-in period. :rofl:
If a group buy moves forward would you consider including the SCs?
Thanks,
Ken
Ken, Grover's new ICs are called 'SC.' (note period after SC). Subtle difference in name but according to Grover not so subtle in sound. I plan to get a couple pair and hope to host a G2G sometime in the next month or so. Perhaps we can coordinate with Grover to take a peak at all his latest stuff. I'm fairly certain he'll extend the group buy to all his products.
I hear you about the break-in... it leads to the dark side of this nervosa - but ya know ya just wanna do it :drool:
Quote from: Carlman on March 17, 2009, 11:33:56 AM
After that, Rich and I will draw straws to find out who gets the 'pleasure' of running this thing. ;)
Carl, don't you have a basement to finish? :lol: I'm volunteering to help coordinate this anyway I can.
I don't know what version I have,, bought em' here about 18 months ago,(group buy), they are black/graphite in color,,I'm up for a group buy,if trade in/ups are allowed.
Quote from: mdconnelly on March 18, 2009, 03:11:21 PM
Quote from: Carlman on March 17, 2009, 11:33:56 AM
After that, Rich and I will draw straws to find out who gets the 'pleasure' of running this thing. ;)
Carl, don't you have a basement to finish? :lol: I'm volunteering to help coordinate this anyway I can.
Careful Mike, you might end up with a big spreadsheet in your inbox talking like that.... hahaha
Thanks!! I'm sure your offer will come in handy. A G2G would be a monumental treat.
Quote from: mdconnelly on March 18, 2009, 03:06:37 PM
Ken, Grover's new ICs are called 'SC.' (note period after SC). Subtle difference in name but according to Grover not so subtle in sound. I plan to get a couple pair and hope to host a G2G sometime in the next month or so. Perhaps we can coordinate with Grover to take a peak at all his latest stuff. I'm fairly certain he'll extend the group buy to all his products.
I hear you about the break-in... it leads to the dark side of this nervosa - but ya know ya just wanna do it :drool:
Mike:
Thank you for clarifying that the new ICs are named (SC.). I have sent Grover an e-mail! :duh Upgrading seems to be an attractive and affordable option!
I look forward to your G2G and certainly hope that I will be able to attend.
Ken
If there is any way I can avoid running this group buy, I'll take it. ;) Yes, I do have a basement to finish.
However, I want this GB to happen and I want it to be a success. Rich and I have given Grover some food for thought and we're working out the details of the GB... There may be 1 for speaker cables and another for interconnects... we'll see.
I'm not sure how the trade-in would work during the GB. The buyer would need to ship the cables to Grover... If I were organizing the GB, I'd make the upgrade process completely separate and between Grover and his customers... Maybe offer AN members the upgrade at a reduced price but only during the GB here at AN.... something like that.
-Carl
This sounds like the right way to run this. I will send mine directly to Gover as soon as he or someone sends me his mailing address. I may have found, as posted previously, a fairly painless way to shorten the ghastly break-in time; namely the cd I got form IsoTek. Remains to be tried as such. I will certainly hustle to try and get together mula for speaker cables (pending someone having tried them and given a green light) Now that Rich has told me mine ring...I'm a lost soul...I dare say Grover knows what he's doing, the price is fair and it is too tiresome to even begin looking elsewhere, especially as I have your golden ears (collective) to inform me. Such a blessing, these forums. What in the world did we do before? yeah I know, I was there, did it. I'm totally eager to get this new version of the interconnect. A 50$ surcharge is more than reasonable. But I will have to scrounge up an I.C. from somewhere to tide me over.
Grover has already offered an upgrade to IC owners from last GB, see Grover's first post in this thread. Peeples can work directly with Grover on that.
shep, if you don't hear any ring, then don't worry about it. If you listened to me you would be a nervous wreck in a week. My system was very different from yours - tube amp with huge 5 way speaks. I think bpape used to use the coppers and never mentioned ring. He has a great ear. The reason I didn't switch to Grover S speaker wires when I first auditioned them was because I still heard a slight touch of ring in them - not yet fully broken in - that was after I got used to dead silent wires. I think it might have been more of a function of the reactivity of my old speakers. They had severe phase in the bass. Grover offers a GB discount in exchange for all the buzz and gossip he expects to see on AN. So there will be a lot of opinions to read!
Rich can you explain what exactly you mean by ring in describing the cable's effects in your system? I'm trying to understand what you are hearing and how it may or may not relate to my listen experience.
Thanks
Looking forward to the details. I need a pair of longer interconnects - probably 2-2.5 meters. Haven't had any of Grover's stuff yet but it sounds interesting.
Bryan
I don't know what ringing sounds like but I suspect it shows up as a tendency to harden up at certain frequencies and transients. I have world-class sound ( :roll:) at lower volumes and with certain types of music. As soon as a singer really lets loose say, or horns, things go south. At first I though it was the amp (my "old" T am was woefully underpowered for my inefficient speakers, so I was getting clipping. Now the new ice amp has lots of power and headroom and I still have a similar effect, though a lot less. MAybe it's the damn solid core wire "ringing"? Anyway, yes, with a group buy I could probably swing a pair of terminated 8' speaker wires. If we get this at less than the 40$ a foot on-site price, it's a no brainer. I guess al will depend on how many go for it. We are how many? 366...if even say 50 of us participate I'm sure Grover will give us a good price.
Grover has agreed to the basic terms, so we're good to go. Look for it to start tomorrow or Sat. Speaker Cables only by Grover's request. A separate IC GB will follow shortly after.
As for ring, the way I perceive it is a resonance in the music that is most audible in mid - upper mid frequencies. It surrounds the notes with a brightness, or subtle buzzing, that sounds enough like the music to blend in. It is slightly metallic in nature on the Anticable (solid OFC.) It is just like low level noise floor in an amp, except it is not random, it goes with the music. The only way I have ever been able to hear it is in comparison with non ringing wire, the only one I know is JPS. In comparison, the ringing is obvious. Like anything with audio, the ringing can be pretty or ugly in character. The Anticable ringing in my old system was of the ugly variety, sounded a little trashy and dark. But some cable mfgs use ringing deliberately (or successfully work it into their formula) to make a very pleasing, happy sounding cable. Harmonic Technologies is a good example. I had a tough time deciding between those and my JPS. The ringing sound in those is very subtle, and very beautiful, like a fine NOS tube. I would like to own those like a sports car in the 3rd garage. My family danced a lot that week. Thanks to stereofool for that educational loan. In the end I preferred quiet and peaceful presentation. Last month when I auditioned Aluminata with its half inch thick layer of aluminum surrounding the conductors, the effect of silense and peace was 3 times more, with also more music coming through, claruty, bigger bass, etc. Very heady feeling. We did not compare the HT to Grover S that fateful eve long ago, but we should do it this next time.
shep, I think what you are describing is more of acoustic ringing in your room than electronic ringing. As the SPL goes up, the acoustic distortion of the room increases expontially, like most other non-linear distortions. Shouting opera divas really hurt on the peaks. You can improve it by diffusing mid frquency reflections (or absorbing them). You could try temporary hanging a thick comforter or blankets on walls and floor to see if it helps. If it does, then midrange reflections are part of the trouble. If it doesn't help, fold it all up and have a cookie. The last couple days I have been experimenting with "Master Set" speaker placement ritual. I'll report when/if I can get it to work. I have given up in frustration twice already, mostly due to hunger, but I have some ideas how to make it easier. You can google it to learn more, a couple threads about it on AC and Agon forum. That might help you too shep, with or without the blankets.
Sorry for the tangent, back to new/old
Thanks for the tangent! could be the room I guess. What you describe doesn't sound like coming from the wires but then you had vitually the same (except mine are Teflon insulated and not enameled like the Anticables.) yes back to the old/new. I understand Grover wanting to start with the speaker wire since a lot of us got the ic's last time around and can upgrade it for a moderate price. I found his address on his website.
For convenience:
Grover Huffman Cables (http://www.groverhuffman.com/home)
As always, thanks to those who are organizing this group buy. The last one went quite smoothly, IMO. I look forward to seeing what Grover has to offer this weekend. Also, Grover's offer to upgrade to the SC. version is appreciated.
Guys:
I plan to upgrade to the new Grover SC. ICs and received an e-mail response from Grover today. He confirmed an exchange price of $50.00 for 1 Meter ICs and $75.00 for 2 Meter ICs. I am really happy with the SCs that I have but since I am a tube-o-phile trying to improve the sound of my system for $125.00 seems reasonable in comparison to the costs of NOS tubes.
Grover's address is:
Grover Huffman
P.O. Box 4734
West Hills, CA. 91308
Ken
Quote from: djbnh on March 19, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
As always, thanks to those who are organizing this group buy. The last one went quite smoothly, IMO. I look forward to seeing what Grover has to offer this weekend. Also, Grover's offer to upgrade to the SC. version is appreciated.
Hi David, nice to see you back on AN, I sent you a PM...
Thanks Ken, Mr tubeophile. I will probably upgrade mine too. Very generous offer from Grover, considering the price of freshly minted.
QuoteThanks Ken, Mr tubeophile. I will probably upgrade mine too. Very generous offer from Grover, considering the price of freshly minted.
My wife is going to kill me! Just recently, 3 pairs of 6SN7s and one pair of tube adapters on top of all the 5U4g/GZ-34 rectifiers and 12AU7s I have purchased in the past year. My gun safe is running out of room due to the tube boxes. :duh :rofl: The good news is the value of NOS Tubes is better than money in the stock market. :D Hell, I admit it, I love tubes. :yay2: I really do believe tube amps are in my distant future!
Ken
Test drive the Snappers anytime you want Ken. They are solid 100W with only 1.5ohm output impedance, better than most 100W tubers. With the new tubes they are rock solid and stable. They are sitting idle now so you might as well enjoy until they sell. Hell I might just keep them, they are very special to me. 8)
Rich
Carl brought his pair of Grover "SC no dot" RCA interconnects over today, we compared it directly to Grover charcoal S. The difference was immediately obvious. We did not have to switch back and forth, 10 seconds of each is all it took. Clearer treble, more palpable midrange, and louder bass, no harsh edge. Impressive improvement! I am excited to move up to the SC dots which Grover says are even better. It's easy to make claims about wires, but this brother walks the talk. How does he do it? :) It will be fun to compare them to jps SC3, because last time I compared SC3 to charcoal S and I though they both sounded pretty much identical except jps was quieter.
I have the "graphite" IIRC version,, anyway,,I just heard back from Mr. Huffman,,and I'll be sending mine back for the SC. 's Actually a very affordable upgrade. Thanks to all for posting/responding, and a big thank you to Roger for a very imformative/detailed pm--actually you guys seem to be most helpful and receptive,maybe one day we'll meet,, until then,,Rock on' :D
2 pairs one meter Grover "SC." interconnects arrived in mail from Grover Saturday and they got switched into my system that night. Did some initial listening that night and yesterday and then ran the IsoTek CD track 2 on repeat during sleep time last night. I will try to do the overnight IsoTek track 2 thing during sleep time rest of week.
Forgot to save a copy of the PM to Dangerbird in my outbox - basically I commented that the white /white Grover S were detailed and smooth; that the next revision charcoal/"graphite" had an edge/grain/glare to some; and that the Grover "SC" in black with the carbon nickel shield was more detailed/more focused than the others and just as smooth as the white/white.
I also relayed that the Grover "SC" Grover sent me with NO "direction arrow" seemed better yet after using for 5 weeks(I suspect maybe grover is using same mix of silver/copper ribbons in both "signal" and "return" legs for this one?).
I will report on the Grover "SC." ICs when they are broken in.
This is excellent, to have knowledge of the new version at such an early stage. I haven't heard anyone hear speak of the ISotek before. I have it as well and am very impressed. Anything that can cut down on the boring burn-in time is worth it's weight in...I've yet to try the second track. Must do.
Track 2 of the IsoTek CD has lower frequency bass content than track 1 and is intended for
long-term initial burn-in (these tracks are each ~29 minutes + , if I recall correctly).
Track 3 is shorter in duration and is intended as a sort of "booster shot" - to be used every so often.
I like the IsoTek burn-in speed-up:
I got the Van Morrison "Astral Weeks Live at the Hollywood Bowl"
when it came out a month ago and enjoyed his more mature voice,
but ordered up a Japanese Warner Bros. remaster of the original
young Van Morrison "Astral Weeks" and have enjoyed it even more over the last month.
Put the remastered "Astral Weeks" on over lunch
and the Grover "SC." ("SC dot") ICs seemed to draw me deeper into the music
than the Grover "SC" with no "direction arrow," which I have had since February 10th.
Young Van and the assembled players really created something special on that album.
OK gents, the speaker cable group buy is open for bizzy bidness.
I queried Grover as to whether he had upgraded my bi-wire speaker cables to his latest technology when I received them back from him on February 10th. His 3/20/09 e-mail confirmed they were updated to his latest technology - separate carbon nickel shields over the low frequency and over the high-mid.
Mine are joined together at the amp end and terminate in a single solid silver wire (14 awg I believe) for + and one for - .
I would have to look to see if the label says Grover "SC." however...
but they are apparently the newest configuration ...
Quote from: shep on March 23, 2009, 10:42:14 AM
This is excellent, to have knowledge of the new version at such an early stage. I haven't heard anyone hear speak of the ISotek before. I have it as well and am very impressed. Anything that can cut down on the boring burn-in time is worth it's weight in...I've yet to try the second track. Must do.
I've mentioned the IsoTek disc a number of times:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=720.msg6888#msg6888
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=597.msg7177#msg7177
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=781.msg7505#msg7505
Works very nicely. If I haven't used my system for a bit, I'll use track 2 to get things nice. For other times, a quick hit with track 3 then on to listening. For burn-in, track 2 has worked wonders for me.
YMMV
I have now ordered upgraded ("SC." "SC dot") interconnects from Grover
and sent him appropriate number of older group buy cables
(mix of black Grover S and white/white Grover S) to cover "upgrading."
Ordered
7 cables (3 and 1/2 pairs) one-meter length Grover "SC dot" [upgrade fee 7 x $25 = 3.5 x $50 = $175]
5 cables (2 and 1/2 pairs) two-meter length Grover "SC dot" [upgrade fee 5 x $37.50 = 2.5 x $75 = $187.50]
total upgrade fee = $ 175 + $187.50 = $362.50
Shipping (flat rate priority mail box for similar weight ~ $10.35)
So total of (upgrade fee + shipping) = $362.50 + $10.35 = $372.85
was sent to Grover.
I will ask Grover to count these toward later AN group buy of Grover ICs,
but having 2 pairs of now burned-in Grover "SC dot" interconnects in my two-channel system,
I wanted to go ahead and get complete set for all positions in my multichannel system...
before Grover gets swamped with making orders for the AN Grover speaker cable group buy!!!
(which I will likely also join to get upgrades for 6-foot single Grover SR speaker cable on center channel and 15-foot pair Grover UR spekaer cables on surround speakers.)
Wow you are a loyal Groverite! That is a great testament that you own so much and are so happy with it. Supposedly some are on their way to me right now. Will be fun to check it out.
Well, Roger,, that says enough for me,,get my order/upgrade in to Grover this weekend,, if Roger says there good,, then thats good enough for me. You have not steered me wrong yet,, my friend,, Congratulations,, and regards to your family :D
George
New Grovers in da house! Just got my SC. versions to compare to my SC XLR balanced version between pre and amp as well as an RCA pair between phono pre and pre. It's gonna take awhile to break in that RCA pair since I no longer run RCA ICs between anything but my phono rig and really don't want to burn tube life breaking in cables... I'll have to figure out another breakin solution there.
Hopefully these will be fully burned in by the April 18th G2G!