In support of the upcoming speaker cable Group Buy, we can post our reviews in this thread.
Rich
Does anyone know how Grover configures his biwire speaker cables? Are they essentially two pair of single runs? Just curious...
Hi everyone, I'm excited by this group buy. My Bi-wire speaker cables are dedicated cables, each designed for the frequencies transferred, this eliminates compromises inherent in other same cable shotgun designs. The Bi-wires can be configured in two ways. As completely separate cables that can be joined together at the amp, one technique to facilitate this is to have the bass cables terminated with banana plugs, and the mid-high cables with solid wire. Both terminated with solid wire works well also, one wire can be twisted around the other or both wires fitted through the center hole of the binding post, this separate cable topology facilitates the use of Bi-amping also. Of course the other topology is to combine the two (silver-copper soldered) at the amp end, resulting in a single bare wire (positive and negative), or other termination at the amp side. I'm working on Rich's Listening Impression sample right now.
They've been playing for about 30+ hours so far. Altmann DAC > Grover SC. ICs> AudioSource Amp 200 > Grover SC Biwire SCs > Usher Be20.
I sat down and listened a little today. They are opened up and starting to reveal their secrets. I can tell already that they are very special and extremely open and clear, as is always true with Grover wires.
I have also turned my room around 90 degrees again, different electronics, etc. So there are a lot of changes since my last critical listening. But I had a very satisfying and emotional listening session today, even with the "industrial utility" amp. The Grover wires passed the spirit of the music very strongly, right through the grit and distortion of the cheap amp. I'm using this amp to pump some heat into the wires, but soon I'll hook up the waify Altmann and start listening to tone. I think they might be more detailed than the JPS SC3, but can't really tell that yet for sure. There seems to be more life in the music than I am used to.
Bass is scary and enormous. Ultra detailed, textured, no holding back. Can't tell about treble with this amp, too gritty. But the wires are passing the grit with great detail. ;)
Rich
cross-posted from the "sc." vs. "sc" interconnects thread,
as all impressions below are using Grover's latest configuration bi-wire speaker cables
which I have had since February 10th and they have all the benefit of normal play and IsoTek Enhancer CD burn-in since that time:
********************************************************************
I have had the Grover "SC" with no "direction arrow" since February 10th
(burned-in similarly as described below)
and used those for source to preamp and preamp to amp of 2-channel system,
until I received Grover "SC." (SC dot) interconnects on March 21st.
I put the SC dot ICs in the 2-channel interconnect spots
and moved the Grover "SC" with no "direction arrow" to the source to preamp position for the center and surround channels of multi-channel system. All other ICs in multi-channel system are Grover "SC" with the direction arrow.
I burned in the new Grover "SC." (SC dot) interconnects using Track 2 of the IsoTek Enhancer CD
running on repeat overnight during sleeping hours for more than a week and they sound well stabilized at this point.
I previously posted in AudioNervosa Album Review section re the improvement
in listening to the Japanese remaster of Van Morrison's "Astral Weeks."
Today over lunch I fired up my Modwright SWL9.0 Signature tubed linestage (w/cryoed 1957 metal base Philips Miniwatt 5AR4/GZ34 and 2 Bendix 6900s) and after it warmed up for 30 minutes or so,
I listened to the track "Stormy Monday" on the DSD SACD "Allman Brothers Band at Fillmore East"
in SACD stereo (I am using Grover's latest configuration speaker bi-wire speaker cables also received February 10th). Superb blues from Duane and Greg Allman, Dicky Betts, Berry Oakley, Butch Trucks and Jaimoe.
The Grover "SC." (SC dot) carries the soul/emotion of the music even better than the already excellent Grover "SC with no direction arrow" - just draws me more into the music.
[using Grover's latest configuration bi-wire speaker cables which I have had since February 10th...
Great synergy.]
I couldn't resist playing "Stormy Monday" again in SACD surround sound after a few minutes...
Can't wait to get the more Grover "SC." ICs I have ordered (Grover e-mailed he is already working on them),to use in all positions in my multi-channel system - as the music will only get even better :drool:
These speaker cables don't have the dot on the label, but they are fresh made last week. The ICs do say SCdot. Is the latest speaker wire spec SCdot? Or is it still SC? Just curious.
Rich and all,
My speaker cables received from Grover February 10 do not have any dot following the "Grover SC" on the label either. But he confirmed a week or two ago that he upgraded them to the latest configuration.
Perhaps "SC." designation only applies to the newest ICs?
Thanks Roger.
Hi Guys wanted to add that the Speaker cables haven't changed since the SC configuration. So I'm leaving the speaker cables designation SC (no dot). The IC's have the changes and hence the new designation, so I can recognize the new design.
Grover, My friend from NY is sending you 60 dollars (postage enough?) as of now. I will send the old ones to you as soonest. If you don't still have my address in France I will send to you with the old cables. Are we still dealing with an arrowless version or have you put the direction or decided it doesn'nt matter?
Shep
shep the new wires that I have are no arrows. But the name tag is attached toward one end, so I pretend there is an arrow on that pointing toward the close end.
Rich,
For consistency (or just "convention"?) I installed the 2 pairs Grover "SC." and and the 2 pairs Grover "SC with no direction arrow" similarly (as if there were a direction arrow on the label) - with the Grover label at the end away from the signal source.
This may facilitate future interconnect placement replication after being burned-in in a particular orientation, or so one can rationalize... :roll:
Yes, that's what my dogma says too. Keeps the wire devils from haunting my dreams. Until the tweekiest wire angel ever (Grover) says it doesn't matter, I will hold firmly to my directional conductor dogma. haha
Hey at least I admit I'm nuts.
You all know just for science sake that the audio signal is AC? :shock:
It goes both ways ...hence alternating. Not trying to light a fire here. I mean we are talking about a hobby that uses stones on top of equipment!
Doesn't matter ---I know.
There are your no direction folks ( thats me) and your direction folks. Its all good!
:shock:
we'll just pretend we didn't hear that! I think you just walked on the tail of a sacred cow...the question is:
which way was he heading? and since you ended on a pleasent note, you're trespasses will be forgiven (for now :lol:)
If Grover is lurking nearby maybe he will say something. On second thought let's not go there. It's so much more fun to believe in magic.
Still waiting for a serious listening impression of the new cables.
The new speaker cables arrived from Grover today, just in time for the upcoming G2G. I have them playing now.
They are now "SC." They are full range, not biwire. They are thicker with a more decorative patterned tech sleeve, it looks very nice.
My first impression, 10 seconds of FM is positive. I can put ears on them tomorrow, but I will not say anything until after the G2G.
Congrats to Grover on the new design, and for sending them back to us.
Rich
Looking forward very much to impressions of this spk wire. I am very happy with the interconnects now that they are fully settled in. If you guys are happy with these, is the group buy going to be re-instated?
Quote from: shep on May 29, 2009, 12:58:02 AM
Looking forward very much to impressions of this spk wire. I am very happy with the interconnects now that they are fully settled in. If you guys are happy with these, is the group buy going to be reinstated?
Shep it makes a lot of sense to use the same manf. for both. IMO once you find an IC you like the speaker cable from my experience will have a synergy. We are always trying to find the right combo for our components. Mixing and matching ICs and speaker cables. Using the cables from the one Manf. so far for me has brought the best results.
BUY THEM.
charles
"Buy them" :rofl: well at least give me a chance to hear how they sound with you's and if the group buy is on.
The bottom line is I'm poor as a church mouse (do they still have them?) and every audionervosa buy is a major undertaking. Plus I want to send my Ice amp to Rick Cullens for an upgrade so I have to make a choice. Yuck
Summer's here and I am swamped with kids and work so I can't run a GB now. But Grover is welcome to host a GB on AN like any member. I'll gladly help if it's needed. He was already planning to do the final shipping so a middleman just wastes money and makes more busy work. The "Fullrange SC." wire is different than the previous "Biwire SC" so the price will probably change so the GB needs to start fresh anyway.
This sounds ominously like more money. Hopefully Grover will not be put off by the rather cool reception his speaker cable got and his latest version will hit the spot. I suspect I should better go the route of upgrading my amp and leave cables alone for the time being. The price will be about the same and the results more satisfying in the long run. I hope someone will be bringing along an ICE-based amp to the shoot-out. This would interest me greatly.
It may not cost more money. It seems like a simpler cable from the outside, but inside who knows.
A cool reception seems to motivate Grover even more, not put him off. The new cables are a good example. After the g2g I'll help Grover write up a GB offer with prices, so you'll know prices tout de suite.
I don't know anyone with a full range ICE amp, but you never know what will show up. There is a new class D amplifier I read in AudioXpress, I need to find a link for you shep. It is moderate power and low price, runs on battery.
I agree...with Rich.
I've some recent correspondence with Grover, and I think he looks at 'cooler' reviews as a challenge. He seems to think that it is great FUN, to continue to improve his products.
I guess we will find out about prices, but with improvements I find myself in line to order some.
I'm trying to nail down Grover's latest spkr cable version from the assorted comments but I'm not even sure what version is being talked about. I guess I'l just have to wait until...This is all so system dependent and subjective so I guess getting a concensus about anything is pretty hard.
Quote from: shep on May 29, 2009, 11:49:15 PM
This sounds ominously like more money. Hopefully Grover will not be put off by the rather cool reception his speaker cable got and his latest version will hit the spot. I suspect I should better go the route of upgrading my amp and leave cables alone for the time being. The price will be about the same and the results more satisfying in the long run. I hope someone will be bringing along an ICE-based amp to the shoot-out. This would interest me greatly.
All depends what the upgrade will bring to the table as opposed to the speaker cables. Can you compare a modded version to yours before you take the plunge ?
Here is a suggestion, clean all your connections, demagnetize your system, then leave everything alone for a month and just listen. WITHOUT critiquing the sound. Once you really have a feel of your system listening to familiar music you may just like what you have going on.
More often than NOT we tend to change, rearrange tweak until we ruin what we have. As the Beatles once said " Let it be". If still not satisfied then start at the source [ IC ?, PC ?, footers?, Etc. ] and work forward. I have found over the years that something as simple as decoupling your speakers from the floor properly has wrought a change that one would not expect.
Remember anything you do affects the sound. So one thing at a time once you really know what your system sounds like. Learn your sound and go from there. That my dear friend will take some time. Have fun.
charles
shep, the speaker cable Grover sent to us last month for the G2G at mdconnelly's house was "SC Biwire." The new one that we're talking about now is a new design called "Full Range SCdot." Grover sent a pair to me for my recent G2G, and also another pair slightly different to stereofool. I am sending my pair to stereofool so he can do a direct comparison, to help Grover tweek it. Steve is a good reviewer and his system is more synergistic with Grover's wires than mine.
The new Grover Fullrange SC. is pretty good if your system does not err toward the bright side already. Didn't work well on mine, too much of a good thing. But it had good bass, typical clarity and tonal detail of all Grovers.
So I'll wait and "see" what shakes out of this. Regarding what Charles posted, unless I'm mistaken, I'm the oldest here and have been around the block more times than I can count with this Nervosa. I know how to listen and when to leave it alone. I know how little things can add up. Here's an example: my Grover IC. s have been in place for a while now. I decided to switch direction for the hell of it. I think they sound better this new way. Now the label is at the source end. Spacial organization is more coherant. Seems to me I change my gear less often than anyone here so I can't be accused of random or capricious HI-fi behavior!
I am going to buy myself a "Stoplight" pen and soon I'm going to crack the case of my amp and take pics to send to Wyred (Cullen) to let him see what space is available for what modifications. Next I have to revisit the misery I made of the cross-over mods in my speakers to see if I can't do a better job. Now this doesn't sound like unreasonable audio neurotic behavior does it? By the way I wish I could attend one of your gatherings! the hell with audio...a nice BBQ with nice people would do me a power of good. Such is life...
Quote from: shep on June 04, 2009, 11:17:13 AM
So I'll wait and "see" what shakes out of this. Regarding what Charles posted, unless I'm mistaken, I'm the oldest here and have been around the block more times than I can count with this Nervosa. I know how to listen and when to leave it alone. I know how little things can add up. Here's an example: my Grover IC. s have been in place for a while now. I decided to switch direction for the hell of it. I think they sound better this new way. Now the label is at the source end. Spacial organization is more coherant. Seems to me I change my gear less often than anyone here so I can't be accused of random or capricious HI-fi behavior!
I am going to buy myself a "Stoplight" pen and soon I'm going to crack the case of my amp and take pics to send to Wyred (Cullen) to let him see what space is available for what modifications. Next I have to revisit the misery I made of the cross-over mods in my speakers to see if I can't do a better job. Now this doesn't sound like unreasonable audio neurotic behavior does it? By the way I wish I could attend one of your gatherings! the hell with audio...a nice BBQ with nice people would do me a power of good. Such is life...
Shep didn't mean to insult your experience or suggest any capricious behavior. Sometimes though the suggestions I've made along with a slight speaker location change has made me rethink a purchase or upgrade. Just trying to help.
Your invited anytime Shep. A long trip maybe but the food and company are priceless.
charles
Charles don't pay me any mind. I was just being a cranky "senior". Thanks for the invite. Wish I could appear at all the fun gatherings.