AudioNervosa

I posted this on AC but thought this group might not see it there.  Really good stuff.  I'm having fun with tweaks lately. 

This is follow-up to my 2007 review of Alan Maher's PE (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45312.0)

After recently upgrading ICs and speaker cables, I started to hear noise in my system (and that started driving my crazy because I started to focus on the noise and not the music).  I have long used an equitech balanced power unit for my source/preamp and have two dedicated lines.  In addition to other tweaks meant to reduce EMI/RFI (both inside and outside of equipment), I had seven of Alan's PEs installed (one in each dedicated outlet and five in non-audio circuits).  So, I wasn't sure if a new filter would solve my problem.  I contacted Alan, ordered a Quantum AC filter and replaced the PE that shared the equitech's outlet.

Five weeks later I'm in awe of this filter.  The noise is long gone.  In its place is music.  Big, expansive music with a level of micro detail that is surprising.  This filter obviously lowers the noise floor substantially and places a very solid image of the musicians in the room.  Compared to the PE it replaces, this filter is in a different league.  The changes are far from subtle.  Every disc sounds new.  A quantum change indeed. 

Timbre is uncanny.  The bass is deeper and better defined.  The mid-bass is much more solid.  The piano is finally portrayed in its full range.  The midrange is simply magical – vocal nuance is greatly enhanced without any kind of artificial boost.  Highs are more extended and airy.  This is the first time I have truly enjoyed trumpet playback from a CD.  The sum total of all of these improvements is a much more nuanced, dynamic and exciting presentation – closer to live music.  You just don't listen to this music you are embraced by it.     

I'd recommend the Quantum for anyone considering a new piece of gear because it doesn't seem to do what they expected as well as someone who wants to get the most out of the gear they love.  Info here:  http://alanmaherdesigns.com/PEQ.aspx

Thanks for sharing, Phil  :).

This looks very interesting!

Thanks.  I suppose I should have made it more clear that this filter takes a while (3 1/2 - 5 weeks) to fully settle in.  Listening was fine for the first week and after 3 1/2 but not great in between.  So, it isn't a short experiment. 

That said, I'm very surprised by the result. 

Does it plug into the same outlet as your Equitech to eat noise on that circuit? Or does the power run through it in series?

Thanks for the great review Phil. Not a bad price for the performance you are describing.  Have you tried it on your power amps too?
Rich

phil i have three pe's in my listening room now,can i get rid of the pe's to finance the quantum or wiil it still sound better with pe's still in place?
marvin

Marvin

I would recommend the Quantum AC package.  Leave the PE in place if you are satisfied with the results.  I would actually recommend replacing the PE with one of the larger IEC V's or Quantum IEC units.  The Q IEC is excellent for digital and video front ends, the V Pro is great for the preamp, and the new VI will blow your mind with amp applications.  The PE, like the Reference II, should be used to filter non-a/v circuits.

The Q AC should be used at the wall with the main system power cord.  The PE should be moved to other circuits to filter refridgerator, washer machine, electrostatic air cleaner, dish washer, fish tank, etc.

Thanks, Rich.  The equitech is plugged into the top receptacle of a duplex outlet and the filter in the bottom receptacle (a parallel filter application).   I think the price is very reasonable given the performance.  I haven't tried it without the equitech, nor with the Butler amp.  The Butler responded well to an upgraded powercord but not much else (not with Alan's PE for example), so I'm not sure I will experiment with it.  I can't plug the amp into the equitech since it is an older model made specifically for sources, unfortunately, then again, no hum with this equitech.  I know that was a problem for you with the larger unit. 

If you don't have any power conditioning, you might think about trying one of Alan's infinity thingies on the main breakers.  Since I have shakti stones on my breakers, I'm not replacing them, but this is the first place to start IMO.  I'm not sure how many to use but at $25 each, this is an easy experiment (Alan could give guidance as to how many).  Apparently, it only takes a few days to settle in so that makes it easy too. 

Marvin,
I'm no expert and all systems are different, but I'd suggest the quantum with your preamp (seems you have a battery powered dac so no options there) and leave the PEs in place for the amps.  I find the IEC version a little funky in my setup, so I have the AC version, but it makes sense to get the filter as close to the preamp as possible. 

Frankly, I removed the PE that was with my amp during burn in of the quantum because it wasn't sure it was working well together and it never did much for the Butler amp anyway.  Too many variables, so I eliminated one.   :)   I think Alan's suggestion is PEs in non-audio circuits (I use five that way) and quantum or later generation PEs filtering equipment.  There was a VERY large difference between the PE and the Quantum with my source/preamp. 

Hope that helps some.  Seems that Alan responded while I was typing, so you have the expert's opinion before mine.

Phil

Recommended filter selection:

Digital Transport, CD/DVD Player, DAC, Surround Processor, Class D Amplifiers (Especially Wyred 4 Sound), High-End HTPC, & Flat Panel Display (Plasma and LCD): Quantum AC and IEC filter

Analog Solid State and Tube Preamp: PE V Pro or Pro IEC

Analog Solid State and Tube Amplifier: PE VI

Mid-Fi Digital/Video: PE Quantum Signature
Mid-Fi Preamp & Amp: Reference II

Non Audio/Video Circuits: Mix PE and Reference II.  Motor appliances should use the Reference II and switch mode supplies like the coffee maker, air cleaner, or computer should use the PE.

Circuit breakers, A/C male and IEC power cord shells, small transformers (SACD, DVD, DAC, Preamp), DAC chips, electrical wiring, duplex outlet spare receptacles, power conditioner, power strips, interconnects, speaker cables, internal wiring, speaker cabinets, computers, digital cables, video cables, etc.: Infinity DIY

Speaker Cables: Infinity Speaker Cable Filter


Product Reviews: http://alanmaherdesigns.com/Reviews.aspx

Alan,

Thanks for the info...that will help greatly in making decisions.

Alan,

So I'm curious on something. I sell a fair number of Audience Adept Response aR1p's and also a few Blue Circle BC86MKIII's and now find myself wondering what the difference is between what you are doing and what these other two are doing?

I have had nothing but good luck with aR1p's but if what you are doing is better, I may look at comparing all three side by side and seeing what shakes. Do you have any loaner units?

Thanks,

John

We all attempt to do the same thing, our units to my knowledge, offer the largest physical designed filter of the bunch.  We pull no punches, all our units are designed to reproduce the live event, each model does it to varying degrees based on the component requirement. 

Without first hand knowledge of the units you mentioned, our clients have replaced their Running Springs Haley, Hydra, PS Audio PPP, Furman, Monster, Blue Circle, Audio Magic, and countless others for our housewide parallel method. 

No loaner units, but we do offer Custom OEM units. More and more cable companies have contacted us over the last several months to design filtering for their product line.  If you would like to continue this conversation I suggest dropping us an email and I can go into more detail. 

Thanks Alan. I would like to understand how your power conditioner method works. Do you have a technical description of what it is doing? You mention household parallel filtering, sounds interesting, and different from traditional sound system only filters.
Thanks
Rich

The technical description is standard parallel filtering; we take the concept to the extreme.  Standard PLC's concentrate at the end of the electrical chain, this method is not effective which is obvious by the many PLC models on the market usually by the same manufacture, forget the resale market.  Our concept is to start at the wall, meaning as far back to the service entrance as possible.  Lowing noise at the breaker panel is the best place to start.  We attack this using two different methods, first we use traditional magnetic via our Infinity DIY filter to lower static noise and stabilize the EM field of each individual circuit breaker.  Second, we use active parallel filtering (PE or Reference II) to handle multiple types of noise/secondary noise on non-a/v circuits which is created by harmonic feedback, power supply crosstalk, impedance shifts, etc.

Our AC / IEC filters are usually anywhere from 30% to 150% larger than the typical audiophile power conditioner, the purpose for this is to offer the system / selected component a surrogate power supply and active power factor correction.  Different filter models serve different purposes; each unit does the same exact thing to varying degrees, tonal colorations, information extraction, etc.  For example the Quantum AC/IEC is a master at extracting information in a digital domain compared to the V and VI that concentrate on analog spectrum and harmonic multiples.  The V develops the size and placement of the sound stage, while the VI extracts every last bit of information within the sound stage, musicians would appreciate what the VI can do for the system.  The Reference II deals with mechanical noise created by appliances, and the PE deals with switch mode crosstalk.  None of our filters roll off any part of the musical spectrum which is typical of other designs; instead we correct the peaks and dips in the upper harmonics to increase dynamic range, drop the noise floor, and created a realistic sound stage.

Thanks Alan that sounds very good.

Alan, looking good. Makes a lot of sense and your products are priced within reason. To date every PC I've tried out has not been desireable. The Furutech [ passive ] so far is the winner for my set up.
   Would it be possible for you to demo or supply your product for one one of our club meetings. Between the Audio Syndrome, Audiophile Society, Gotham, and Rave club attendees a large audience could be had.
   Thankyou for thinking out of the box and pricing your product fairly. Good luck with your product line.


charles

Charles,

Every so often we offer beta products for events, system testing, etc.  I usually announce the beta program on Audio Circle, but I can start offering the program here as well.

Our products are difficult to A/B  because of the required set up is normally 15 to 20 days before a filter will show you all it has to offer.     

Quote from: AlanMaher on June 08, 2009, 10:49:02 AM
Charles,

Every so often we offer beta products for events, system testing, etc.  I usually announce the beta program on Audio Circle, but I can start offering the program here as well.

Our products are difficult to A/B  because of the required set up is normally 15 to 20 days before a filter will show you all it has to offer.     

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Alan.  I've found there is an immediate difference in conditioned vs. non-conditioned power but hearing all the nuances does take time... And comparing conditioners is not as clear-cut... but it can be.  I've directly compared a couple and heard the differences.  But it does take some analysis prior to the comparison to figure out what to compare. 

We have a fairly large meet coming up on June 27th and I don't have a conditioner at all.. I do have 6 dedicated 20a breakers, from a dedicated panel, on nice ATL outlets.  (All has been cryo'd by BlackSandCable)  So, if you want to send one for us to try, I'll be glad to showcase it.

BTW, does your gear have mechanical hum from the transformers?  We've had that issue with some other companies' products.

Thanks,
Carl

Carl

Right now all beta units are out. 

Our products do not suffer from mechanical hum.  Actually our products are able to banish hum.

Quote from: AlanMaher on June 08, 2009, 10:49:02 AM
Charles,

Every so often we offer beta products for events, system testing, etc.  I usually announce the beta program on Audio Circle, but I can start offering the program here as well.

Our products are difficult to A/B  because of the required set up is normally 15 to 20 days before a filter will show you all it has to offer.     

Thank you for the offer. We would not look to A/B the units as we find it pointless. What we would do is insert in our reference system for 20 days to settle in . Then we would remove the filters one at a time to hear what we lost in the change. Well anyway best of luck  with your product and as a consumer thanks again for offering at a fair price.



charles

Heads up:  We are running a special on PE V and Quantum Limited Edition filters all next week.  Watch our home page for more info. 

Sale: June 15-19

PE V Pro Limited Edition: $290.00
Quantum AC Limited Edition: $300.00

Buy 2 PE V Pro or Quantum AC Limited Edition filters and receive a FREE Infinity DIY filter

Well to my surprise a small package arrived yesterday from Alan. Inside a small black box. Not knowing what I had to Alan's website I went. Behold the "Infinity".  Excited like a dog in heat looking to plug it in somewhere I realized it has no plug. Oh my what to do. OK ,OK so so I read the web page. Just attach it to a circuit breaker or duplex with double sided tape. HMMMMMMMMMM. could not get access to the breaker so it was placed on the outlet cover of the separate circuit feeding the preamp and amps. Here we go again with the little black box fooey phooey. Oh yes joining the ranks of the "clock", "teleporters", "Tice enhancer", and so on.
     Well my little chickadees it did something. What it did was exactly what Alan mentions when first installed. It dulled the sound and appeared to changing from good to bad to I'm turning this off right now. So the listening session came to a sudden end. The break in continues as advertised
      Now some 20 hours later the next morning the nervosa was peaking. Made the morning coffee sat down another listen was warranted. Same recording same volume level. There were still some nasties going on that made listening uneasy. However, man o man the imaging appeared more three dimensional and the overall size of the soundstage was larger. What was shocking was the depth of the soundstage. The audience seemed to extend past my rear wall. Crazy. Tonality is still not where it was but its still changing. BTW I'm playing a live CD of Clapton and Steve Winwood at MSG. [ not the best recording BTW].
The biggest change though the was the improved pace and timing. So to date the tonality is still not there but the improvements in P&T and imaging so soon is quite something.
I will report back after 3 days and then after 10 days as suggested. Makes me wonder what his powercords do. A five foot cords is very reasonably priced for a change , so what you waiting for . Give them a go.


charles




   

Charles,

When installed on the breaker the magnetic strength of the filter will cause the sound stage to collapse for the first week.  The magic starts to happen between day 6 and 7 after install.  Between day 7 and 12/16 you will experience small refinements throughtout the entire musical spectrum. 

BTW, instead of strapping the Infinity to the breaker it can be mounted to the panel door centered to the selected breaker/s.

I look forward to your continued comments.

Enjoy!

PS. a plug in version will be available next month.  Our case manufacture phased out the case we intended to use, so I'm waiting for a new model to be released. The plug in version is almost 3x as strong as the passive filters.

Charles,

I'm glad you started with the breaker box infinity first since it seems the easiest way to get a taste of Alan's filters.  Looking forward to your report.  If I didn't already have shakti stones on my breakers I'd give these a try.

While the quantum type plug in filters take longer to break in, the effect is wonderful.

Phil

Phil...contact Jen next month and have her send you a new Infinity plug in to try....I will let her know in advance that I said it was OK....She should have them ready no later than the middle of the month...I think you will love the synergy with the Quantum filter.

Quote from: Phil on June 25, 2009, 07:37:38 PM
Charles,

I'm glad you started with the breaker box infinity first since it seems the easiest way to get a taste of Alan's filters.  Looking forward to your report.  If I didn't already have shakti stones on my breakers I'd give these a try.

While the quantum type plug in filters take longer to break in, the effect is wonderful.

Phil

  Day 3. Last evening I put on a very very familiar CD of Leonard Cohen's greatest hits. Track 9,10 and 11 are live cuts. A close miked presentation that always had a bit of exaggerated sibilants. Not any more. Sibilants now decay naturally without the sizzle. . Although still compressed more info is coming through. The backup singer comes through more distinctly and the sense of the live venue is more paletable. Not hyped or Hi fi sounding. The only thing that is missing is the slamatronic dynamics I'm used too. As well as the large and holographic soundstage the Pipedreams are capable of. A bit homogenized still but its only 3 days. So far NO complaints.
  Next report after 7 days.


charles

Alan,

Will do!  BTW, the quantum filter did improve incrementally over these last few weeks as you said.  It has aged like a fine wine.  Full bodied and subtle.  Very nice!


Charles,

Do you use a PLC?

Phil

Phil

The next time we chat about the system we should look at Quantum IEC for the digital/video components, PE V Pro IEC for the preamp, and a PE VI IEC (brand new and best PE design yet) for the amp/s.

Charles...keep up the good work,the Infinity is right on schedule.  I look forward to your next comments.

OK I could not wait the 7 days. The soundstage finally opened up a bit. So far the biggest improvement is in male and female voice. Sibilants are now presented in a natural way as opposed to any type of Hi Fi sizzle or sharp tone. Actually sibilants have air around them and decay. Amazing ! Bass is deeper and more focused. Tonality overall is the same except for emphasis in the lower treble and upper midrange. IMO this will vanish as all the other initial nasties have. Time will tell.
  There is more information being extracted from the disc as the noise floor has dropped to allow the information to come through. Bass lines are clearly defined during complex passages and backup singers now have more focus and clarity.
   Overall the sound is richer but with presence. Dynamics are coming back but not yet up to what was there before. BTW live recordings really do sound live especially the cymbals and other percussion sounds such as wood blocks, triangles and rim shots.
    So its changing for the good so far. My only cravat so far is the top end performance. A slight bit hard and shouty. So in all fairness a final and complete review will wait until after day 17.



charles
   

 I can onlly wonder what the PE can do. Are these devices cumulative ? Right now the Infinity is attached to the dedicated circuit at the outlet. Not even at its best recommended location and still to great affect. Will two devices work better ? Or more ?
  Day 10 is tonight. but I'll wait to day 11 to write again. Can't wait as the NERVOSA is alive again, its like replacing a component for goodness sake. BUY SOME.


charles

Charles,

I continue to be surprised by the Quantum filter and I'll try the infinity stuff soon.    I'm wondering if you use a PLC or if this is the only conditioning you use (I'm sure you have tried plenty).


Allan,

Is the PE VI specifically designed for amps and how does this design differ from your other PE?

Phil

Charles,

The PE is a good toe dipping product if you are interested in a first time purchase.  If you are looking for serious filtering options then I would recommend the PE V Pro, PE VI, or Quantum.


Phil,

The VI is right up there in the same league as the V and Quantum filters.  I use the VI for extracting the absolute last bit of detail a component/system has to offer.  The VI can be used with digital, analog, and video....I have 3 in my set up....one is used in concert with the Q LE on the primary side (Quantum at the wall and VI designed as a IEC filter)....plus I have 2 other V LE on the same circuit (mid and end)...another VI is used to filter the entire secondary (AC model) and a third is installed on the LCD TV (IEC version). 

Compared to the V Pro...the VI digs deeper into the recording and pulls out the last bit of detail....after the VI sets up you as the listener will be able to tell me the guitar string manufacture and type/model...that is the kind of detail the VI delivers...those other guys can't say that, not at these prices.  Compared to the Quantum, which is a more organic filter, the VI is less warm and more exacting without any hint of brightness, but it is brutally honest in its reproduction.

FYI, I renamed this thread w/ 'Review/Dealer Ad' at the beginning so people will know what to expect when they read it.  I don't discourage anyone from drumming up business but I do like to see it called what it is.
Thanks,
Carl

Day 11. The saga continues. I,m hearing details like never before. Not bright yet illuminated. Alive may be a better term. On live recordings the air is alive. Decay of notes are sustained even longer than before. The top is sweet.
  However not all perfect. As stated the top is ready. The midrange and bass are still not up to snuff. Possibly still changing. After day 7 the magic began with the soundstage opening up. A bit mechanical and contrived. The mids were Hi Fi sounding. After day 10 I thought the break in was complete. WRONG.
  This device appears to attack one part of the frequency range at a time. I know this sounds silly but this is what I have experienced so far. Day 11 the midrange is opening up. For example on Sonny rollins " Plus three" CD his manipulation of his throat was evident for the first time. However the air around the notes and the holographic imaging is now missing in action. As I said still changing.
  Day 17 will be the final day of break in so until then. Happy listening to all.


  No affiliation with A. Maher designs. Selected as Beta tester


charles

Has anyone tried Alan's Infinity speaker cable filters?  Given the 22' length of my JPS SC+ biwire cables, I'm wondering if & how these filters might affect the sonic presentation.

Any insight is appreciated!

The I SC just started shipping July 1....it will be some time before comments are posted.  The average filter requires 7 to 10 days to break in.  With a 22' cable I would say 12 to 15 days due to the length.

Professionally I don't think I should be the one to interject, but I might be able to put you in contact with a few of my clients that had purchased and you guys can go back and forth?  Send me an email and I'll ask over the next couple of days.

Alan, you've got my email now but I'm in no hurry.  Let those users break your Infinity SC filters in and hopefully some good, insightful reviews will come out of it.

Thanks!

A little plug....Check out our artist of the month this month.  I did house sound for this show last night, I have listened to Monte for at least 15/16 years and his live sets always impress.  Check out the page, enjoy the video clips, and if you like and he's playing in your area go check him out.

http://alanmaherdesigns.com/DIY.aspx

 Well boys 21 days in. In all my years of fooling with power conditioners never has one piece improved EVERY parameter in my system. There is now a feeling of added weight and clarity like NEVER before.
  I'm hearing detail that  I never heard before. Everything I described previously is now here in spades.
Dynamic, deeper and more articulate bass, holographic imaging, detailed yet sweet top with more air, longer more defined decay of notes. Best of all hearing deeper into the music as NEVER before..
   At $25 each IMO one of the best devices to grace our hobby. BUY SOME!!!!!
Makes me wonder what the other products do.



charles 

Cool...not bad for taping the filter over the open receptacle :?

Quote from: rollo on July 15, 2009, 07:51:21 AM

...Makes me wonder what the other products do.

Well, I'm hoping I'll be able to weigh in on that question.  After a good bit of email exchange with Alan, I've decided to give his latest Quantum Studio a try... likely be a couple more weeks before I see it, and a few more after that before it gets house-broken.  Stay tuned.

Quote from: rollo on July 15, 2009, 07:51:21 AM
In all my years of fooling with power conditioners never has one piece improved EVERY parameter in my system.
charles 

That is one heck of a bold statement! What other power conditioners have you tried and which of those have you directly compared to this gizmo you have now?

Well I have an extra piece of ERS paper lying around unused, so I taped it inside my circuit breaker panel over the audio fuses and the main breaker fuse. Guess what? The lights dimmed, the clouds parted and a solitary beam of heavenly light chose to align itself with my audio rig. It was miraculous. An epiphany. Then the dog started barking, the light dimmed and it started to rain again.  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

But seriously, I had it lying around and I used it per Alan's instructions. The sound of my rig changes every time I listen due to power fluctuations and the time of day. But what the heck, if it makes a subtle improvement that I can't readily detect at least it will be an improvement. I'm sure it won't hurt anything because the theory makes sense to me. I'm not sure I could remember the subtle differences from one day to the next anyway, let alone a 21 day period.

Anything with a lengthy breakin can make you question your ears (and sanity).   But... then removing it should reveal something, right?   

It should....

Alan, I seem to recall a discussion here or on AC (but can't seem to find it :-k) that indicated that if your filters are removed from the circuit or if power is turned off for an extended time, then it would once again take awhile to 'readjust' the circuit. 

Can you expand on that a bit?  I'm curious what happens when you remove it from the circuit, and how long it takes to re-achieve results when returned to the circuit (or power is restored).   

Any insight is appreciated.  Thanks!

It has nothing to do with our products, what you are describing is called magnetic flux and it is caused by every item plugged into the electrical service.  Flux is created by power supply leakage on the neutral, transformer inductance, interaction between in-wall hot, neutral, and earth conductors, power supply harmonic interactions, etc.  These interactions cause the inductance of the circuit to collapse creating a period of indifference between the in-wall inductance, capacitance, and resistance levels.  Our filters will cause the balance of the circuit to go haywire while the multistage filter conditions and stabilizes.  Once stabilized the circuit will no longer change during different times of day because the filter is in complete control of the harmonic balance of the circuit.  The sound quality will remain the same no matter if it is 10pm or 10am. 

Flux is unavoidable.

Quote from: AlanMaher on July 15, 2009, 01:11:09 PM
... The sound quality will remain the same no matter if it is 10pm or 10am. 

Now that would be amazing... I live in an older section of Durham, NC - power lines all above ground - and there are times when my system sounds awesome (typically but not always late at night), and other times I just have to turn off the music.  If your filters can overcome that alone, I'll be very impressed.   I've heard similar claims with respect to power regeneration systems but they all have their own sets of baggage.

....regeneration  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Brand new Infinity SC review: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69874.0

Quote from: Black Sand Cable on July 15, 2009, 08:41:35 AM

Quote from: rollo on July 15, 2009, 07:51:21 AM
In all my years of fooling with power conditioners never has one piece improved EVERY parameter in my system.
charles 

That is one heck of a bold statement! What other power conditioners have you tried and which of those have you directly compared to this gizmo you have now?

  Yes it is. No need to do direct comparisons. I know my system like the back of my hand. The Infinity made a wonderfull change for the good.
  the true test is when I took it out. The soundstage collapsed, bass was not as focused and the sound was a bit thinner. Good enough for me.  At$25 for this thing IMO there are no competitors at this price level.
Now other conditioners were; Richard Grey, PS Audio regeneration,Furman, Furatech, Hydra, powerwedge, Monster and Mapleshade.



charles

Quote from: BobM on July 15, 2009, 09:33:07 AM
Well I have an extra piece of ERS paper lying around unused, so I taped it inside my circuit breaker panel over the audio fuses and the main breaker fuse. Guess what? The lights dimmed, the clouds parted and a solitary beam of heavenly light chose to align itself with my audio rig. It was miraculous. An epiphany. Then the dog started barking, the light dimmed and it started to rain again.  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

But seriously, I had it lying around and I used it per Alan's instructions. The sound of my rig changes every time I listen due to power fluctuations and the time of day. But what the heck, if it makes a subtle improvement that I can't readily detect at least it will be an improvement. I'm sure it won't hurt anything because the theory makes sense to me. I'm not sure I could remember the subtle differences from one day to the next anyway, let alone a 21 day period.

Bob so what would be so hard to remember. When installed it sounded like crap now better than ever before. My system as you know is extremely revealing. The Pipedreams tell all. So not so hard to hear changes. The true test was removing the filter. Its not magic, flooby dust or any of the other BS. It is IMO the REAL DEAL. Right up your alley with pricing.
  You know Bob I remember when you were getting into this hobby and the talk of ICs, speaker cables and POWERCORDS made NO difference. Now that you have experienced the difference your a believer. I still remember you busting our chops over cabling. Its just a matter of time before one comes around.


charles

Quote from: rollo on July 16, 2009, 08:57:46 AM
  You know Bob I remember when you were getting into this hobby and the talk of ICs, speaker cables and POWERCORDS made NO difference. Now that you have experienced the difference your a believer. I still remember you busting our chops over cabling. Its just a matter of time before one comes around.
charles

I think you may have me confused with someone else. I'm the one that experimented with so many different styles and types of cable and said they all made a difference. I never said this filter didn't make a difference. I don't have any of Alan's conditioners so I can't make any judgement on them. I just said I had some ERS paper lying around ... so I used it per Alan's instructions. Charles - I am the ultimate experimentor. There's damn near nothing in my system that I haven't played with (and improved for the most part).

Sure, I could pull it out (or actually just open the fusebox door that it is glued to) and see if I hear anything. But it's only been there for 2 days now, and I understand this type of thing takes many days to gel. I will try this, without a doubt, but it is now summertime (finally) and I'm spending more time outside then in when I'm not working. So I don't expect that I will get to this soon; there's also a vacatioin looming.

Bob

   Just breaking your chops Bob. Yes ,yes you are the endless experimenter. Your system has come a long way, so I'm told.
   OK I installed the Infinity on the circuit breaker cover plate over the breaker as per Alans instruction. Well he was right. It kicked it up a notch or two. There is just more there than before.
    I've been fooling around with this hobby for over 35 years, seen a lot, heard a lot and bought my fair share. Nothing that I've owned before has made such a dramatic change for the good as this device. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!
   When I look at it I just laugh. How can a device that you don't even plug in have such an affect. Hard to believe until you hear the affect. This is not bang for the buck its KA BOOM for the buck. 


charles

Are these devices something you put on, then it sounds like crap, then starts to get better and better over time?  Is it something you could take off, let it sound like crap again, then over time would it get better again?  Or is it absolutely better...  Or is it not worth the experiment time to go the other way?
-C

Quote from: mdconnelly on July 15, 2009, 10:26:33 AM
Anything with a lengthy breakin can make you question your ears (and sanity).   But... then removing it should reveal something, right?   

Well the ERS paper has been on the breaker door for about a week now. I gave a critical listen to a few choice songs, then went and opened the panel door, swinging it wide so it is no longer in proximity to the breakers. Then went back and listened to the same choice cuts.

No difference as far as I can tell.

Maybe this depends on the amount of RFI and EMI in proximity to your house and or your AC lines? My breaker box is fairly new (< 5 years) and my neighborhood is not as rural as some. Maybe the ERS paper isn't terribly effective? Who knows.

I may pull it off the breaker box and use it inside the cover of my new CD player (it came off the old CD player).

Bob

Maybe the ERS paper isn't terribly effective? Who knows.

It's not.

Quote from: Carlman on July 22, 2009, 07:32:42 AM
Are these devices something you put on, then it sounds like crap, then starts to get better and better over time?  Is it something you could take off, let it sound like crap again, then over time would it get better again?  Or is it absolutely better...  Or is it not worth the experiment time to go the other way?
-C

  Yes. No. YES. NO.  :rofl:


charles

Quote from: AlanMaher on July 15, 2009, 02:20:48 PM
....regeneration  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Would you give me technical reasons for the laughs.  I am curious.  I want to know if regeneration isolates the downstream gears from the wall socket or the rest of the house electricity still affects the sound from the gear playing off the regenerated power.  AC/DC/AC sounds like it should work fine as an isolation method...

Quote from: Woodsyi on July 27, 2009, 11:39:47 AM

Quote from: AlanMaher on July 15, 2009, 02:20:48 PM
....regeneration  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Would you give me technical reasons for the laughs.  I am curious.  I want to know if regeneration isolates the downstream gears from the wall socket or the rest of the house electricity still affects the sound from the gear playing off the regenerated power.  AC/DC/AC sounds like it should work fine as an isolation method...

Regenerated power works just fine. I'm not sure what was up with laughs myself as I'm not a fan of slamming or mocking other peoples products especially when it hasn't been proven that the product in question is clearly superior to what is being mocked. I have a few PS Audio Premier's in use and they work just fine. I prefer the balanced power option myself but I have no problems using or recommending a Premier when need be. Regenerated power however has it's limitations. The one major problem is current limiting on larger systems. If somebody is going to run with this option you have to do the math ahead of time on the requirements of your own system.

PS Audio has a fairly detailed account of what they are trying to achieve on their site. If your curious as to what it is they are trying to accomplish, it might be a good read.

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/description/power-plant-premier?cat=power (http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/description/power-plant-premier?cat=power)

Yes I'm a PS Audio dealer so it shouldn't come as a surprise that I defend them but I also sell APC, Equi=Tech, Furman and Panamax. All of which have their respective plus and minuses depending on the application.

No....regeneration does not isolate the system.  Regeneration reconfigures the sine wave.  Our PE/Quantum filter series does the same exact thing without the need for ac/dc/ac conversion. 

Quote from: AlanMaher on July 29, 2009, 02:27:11 AM
No....regeneration does not isolate the system.  Regeneration reconfigures the sine wave.  Our PE/Quantum filter series does the same exact thing without the need for ac/dc/ac conversion. 

How do you change the amplitude of the waves with filters?  I know I get different voltage at different times of the day. 

Simple; control the harmonics.

Quote from: AlanMaher on July 29, 2009, 05:58:24 AM
Simple; control the harmonics.

You are not exactly doing the best to convince me to buy your product.  Can you explain the simple thing in even a simpler way to this very stupid person who could be your customer.

OK,

I seem to have gotten off on a wrong foot with Alan here.  Let's get on track here.  I have a specific situation and wanted some answers.  The answer may be buried in the long AC thread but I don't want to dig through it. 

I use an APS Purepower 2000 regenerator.  I am quite happy with it but recently I ran into a ground loop hum issue.  I thought a regenerator would be immune to it but it apparently is not.  I solved the situation by going to balanced interconnects, but I know there is a potential difference somewhere on my power distribution.  I am trying to see if any of your filters can be used in conjunction with a regenerator to combat this issue.

For me to buy something to try, I have to be convinced that the methodology is credible to me.  So far, I am still trying to understand....