AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: shep on September 04, 2009, 09:38:09 AM

Title: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 09:38:09 AM
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/mp/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=68&zenid=0o7vhn3dionm16

Help! I'm on the verge of giving in to an impulse  :shock:
Looks nice, supposed to sound nice and can you beat the price? Even the tubes supplied are said to be decent. Please dissuade me
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Carlman on September 04, 2009, 09:42:40 AM
What speakers do you have that 4.5 watts would be driving?
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Black Sand Cable on September 04, 2009, 09:50:54 AM
Those guys aren't very far from me. I heard one once (don't recall the model) and it was decent but you are going to need one very efficient set of speakers to get anything out of them and even then I would have concerns.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 10:15:45 AM
This has nothing to do with common sense; a. I was first considering the Miniwatt at 2.5 watts per
b. my speakers are not efficient. Just old fashioned lust and listening to too many people mooning over their glowing bottles. (not even for listening at moderate levels???) Mercy!
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 04, 2009, 11:53:21 AM
Too cheap! Tube amps require expensive parts. If the actual cost to manufacture these after profits and shipping is $20, then what's inside those transformer cans?  SS is king of value for commercial amplifiers under $1000.

As for the power rating 4.5W can make 85dB sensitive speaker with flat 8ohm impedance play to 91dB peak with zero headroom and max rated distortion, on a small Chinese tube amp built for price and appearance that's 3-5%. Do you think that 5% distortion and no dynamic headroom will give you chills up your spine? 

If you really want tubes on a budget, why not build your own? Something with known good design, using standard parts and common tubes that you can enjoy rolling, and with enough power to "almost" do the job ("almost" just like all tube amps.)
http://www.tubelab.com/SimpleSE.htm
I know a few people who have built this and are happy with it.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 11:58:11 AM
I knew I could count on Rich to dissuade :( me. But still...I believe the parts are not cheepie, but what do I know? Maybe they are all fake "names".
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 04, 2009, 12:06:54 PM
Actually it looks pretty good, but you said you wanted to be dissuaded...   :lol:

What's the sensitivity of your speakers shep?
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 12:43:29 PM
86db, simple crossover, TL design. Make any dif.? 5% distortion sounds like fun (at my age)! There's not much room in my head either so maybe this is a match made in heaven?
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Carlman on September 04, 2009, 01:17:33 PM
86db.. haha.. That'll be fun for (very) low volume, maybe night-time listening.  I had 86db speakers and used a very nice 8 watt tube amp and it barely powered them enough to come alive.. but it was ok at low to moderate volume... maybe up to 80db.

Just send your $200 to me and I'll send you warm wishes.  You'll probably get more out of it. ;)

-C
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: mdconnelly on September 04, 2009, 01:56:34 PM
It wasn't until I replaced a 150w/ch Levinson with a McCormack DNA-500 500w/ch amp did my 86db efficient Aerial 10Ts come alive.   But a lot of people with high-efficiency speakers love their flea & bottle powered amps. 

Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 03:22:51 PM
Alright already! I take the hint.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 04, 2009, 06:20:30 PM
Sorry to throw wet blanket on your tube fantasy shep. A nice little 40W integrated, maybe used, like Jolida or Prima Luna or something.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 04, 2009, 10:52:18 PM
You guys are the best. I'll remember you in my will. Just to get even, you'll have to dice for who gets the REAL DEAL ICE AMP! Well this is a progressive illness, and I did ask for the wet blanket treatment. So now is it alright to go back to hoping for a cable change? like who's listening to Grover's latest creation right now? especially the spkr wire. But still....................it sure was cute.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 05:17:51 AM
Yea it's cute alright.
I now understand why the chorus of "AAaaahhhh's" when my family see's somebody giving away puppies at the grocery store. I just about did the same thing when I saw this. It's damn cute.

Bob
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 05, 2009, 08:44:47 AM
Bob, you are a gentleman  :D
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 08:50:42 AM
You should have a chat with my wife.  ;)
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 05, 2009, 09:36:08 AM
About cute tube amps or gentlemen who over-indulge (in them)?
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 09:57:24 AM
.......About referring to me as a gentleman in general.  :rofl:

As far as the amp is concerned, I find it "cute", but way too small for my needs. Despite having fairly efficient speakers (96dB), it lacks the 'nads for home theater and the headroom for music when I get that wild hair to crank it. Kinda like giving up your Police trained German Shepard for a Chihuahua. It has some bark, but not much bite.  :lol:

Bob
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 05, 2009, 10:56:56 AM
A friendly bark is better than a vicious bite? Don't get me started or before you know it I will have ordered the damn thing and I'll never dare show my face around here again for the shame of it.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 11:24:29 AM
Nah...You need more 'bite' than that Shep. Especially with 86dB drivers. In my (very) humble opinion, unless your speakers are closer 100dB, you'll find yourself "wanting". Then you'd soon be selling it for a fraction of the retail price, bumping the ad every day, miserable the entire time regretting your purchase. The perspective buyers would be limited due to it's size, specs, and possibly questionable components making the sale drag on forever. Your wife would be mad that you've "done it again", then you'd be in the dog house.
Either that, or you'll fall in love with the sound from the amp, but it's diminutive size and power rating would still leave you "wanting" for more. So then you'd have to go buy new, high efficiency speakers, hence spending more money on a purchase you shouldn't have made in the first place. Again, the wife would be mad that you're never happy and spending more money on "this damn hobby".
See how that works?

Bob
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 05, 2009, 12:12:27 PM
 :shock: ](*,) no wife, no dog house, no dog...just myself to blame myself. Pure unadulterated neurotic audio lust, without a shred of sense. I was sort of thinking of a conversation piece...like on the mantle and when asked how it sounds I'll look wise and all-knowing and say "it needs time to settle in". I think I'm convinced and it's time to move on. I DO need batter spkr cables. Can we return to reality? or what passes for it here on the internet ranch.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: shep on September 05, 2009, 12:12:27 PM
:shock: ](*,) no wife, no dog house, no dog...just myself to blame myself. Pure unadulterated neurotic audio lust, without a shred of sense. I was sort of thinking of a conversation piece...like on the mantle.......

Well Hell Shep, if that's the case, you should get yourself a Nixie clock.  :rofl: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Glad I could help.  8)
Bob
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 05, 2009, 01:44:00 PM
I don't know what a Nixie clock is so should I get two (mono's)?
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 05, 2009, 02:19:47 PM
(http://www.nixieclock.net/assets/big/V400_TOP.jpg)

One is way more than enough.  Last year we almost had Carlman talked into buying one.

Nixie gives you the thrill of vacuum tubes without any messy audio entanglements.

shep, just buy the little amp. It's $200 bucks. You're entitled to spend a little pissin money. You got no wife telling you to stay in the budget, so you might as well take advantage of that... So what if it sucks, it won't be that bad. Better than 2W which is totally useless. 92dB is pretty loud, but it will sound annoyingly thick and luscious after you adjust. Just listen at low volumes where it's clean. For stuff like Bach harpsichord no problem. At least you don't have wife, dog, kids making extraneous noise and quiet listening is very satisfying when there is no noise.  Even if it doesn't work out, you can only lose $200 max! Name another amp with that benefit?

Now I am devils advocate. (http://www.audiocircle.com/Smileys/audiocircle/tempted.gif)
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 05, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
Yea, being a bachelor, you should have a pair of monos.
Fur shur dude....  :-P


EDIT: Whoops, Rich beat me to it.

http://www.nixieclock.net/

(http://www.nixieclock.net/assets/big/V400_TOP.jpg)  


(http://www.nixieclock.net/assets/own/V400_7.jpg)

Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 06, 2009, 12:54:46 AM

Rich you are being naughty. I just talked myself out of the damn mini amps! Talk me into spending 200$ on new speaker cables instead. I'm waiting patiently for someone to report on Grover's new ones.
Being single has its moments but frankly I'm ready for a change. I'll happily give up some "freedom" for some other, more interesting experiences than solitary male pursuits. I'm moving to another space. A smaller room. It might suit my speakers better. They just can't drive the big space they are in now. It appears I have just been "published" again by 6Moons. On the subject of...wouldn't you know. Ouch. I thought we were having a private chat. I better hold my tongue in the future. Have a nice Sunday guys. The weather is stunning here but Fall is in the air. 
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 06, 2009, 07:01:22 AM
I just read the entire 6 moons News page and the entire Industry page. I still don't know what the hell you're talking about.  Happy Sunday to you too. Weather is beautiful here.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 06, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
"letters/feedback"
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: richidoo on September 06, 2009, 10:04:05 AM
Nope still can't find it. That's OK. I have run across lots of great announcements, reviews, opinions and other tantalizing "tit-bits" from the world of audio. It is great the Srajan prints all the minutia of the industry as he does.
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: shep on September 06, 2009, 11:21:29 AM
http://www.6moons.com/lettersfeedback/lettersfeedback.html
Title: Re: cheap and cheerful
Post by: JLM on October 25, 2009, 04:28:38 AM
I tried 7 wpc Clari-T battery powered T-amp years ago with my 91 dB/w/m full range speakers in an 8 ft x 13 ft x 22 ft room.  It was surprisingly good, but I listen at moderate levels.  I got sucked into trying the amp out of fascinating about the new technology, the size, and the ideals of battery power.   I say "sucked" because I know the math for sizing amps to speakers based on efficiency, room size, etc. and this was obviously a stretch.

But I moved onto my current Channel Island VMB-1 chip based 40 watt monoblocks and wow!  My polite, well behaved dinner guests (speakers) turned into a cross between James Bond and NFL linebackers in tuxedos.  More dynamics, more control, no more snoozing, lots more detail, better imaging.  Size the amp to keep a commanding grip on the drivers.

BTW the battery thing was pointless for me.  I also tried a battery powered SB3 that had AC bypass and couldn't hear a difference (either could some other users).  IMO power issues are site specific.  I've heard the effects of power aberrations, but never where I lived (horrible old house or ideal new).  And the batteries required vendor swap out.  During shipping the heavy batteries twice broke loose and caused serious internal damage that the vendor would not cover.   :x