Made a real good improvement to an Oppo CDP. besting a cord [ no names costing over $350 ]. Has anyone tried the high current cords ? They appear to well engineered, shielded, good enough copper conductor and very reasonably priced.
Shoot for $180 for two 9ga shielded cords with a 30 day MBG from Audio Advisor the nervosa is perking. If they sound good they will make a lot of sales. Bravo at least to the price until auditioned in my system. improved my Buddy's system and he was using a cord I made for him which is no slouch [ 9ga NASA spec, concentric wind silver plated copper with O'Heil IEC and industrial plug, ERS and braided shielding] Again no slouch.
charles
http://www.pangeaaudio.com/
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC9
Sounds like another great bang for the buck product. I have also been very happy with power cord from Signal Cable. Their power cords run in the same price range and when I heard that they are used as the stock cord in the Velodyne $15K Signature 1812 Subwoofer I figured what the hell, and gave it a try.
I realize that some of the big buck power cords out there do some really nice things, but I can't help thinking, If I add a $2,000 power cord to a $2,000 amp would I be better off putting one of these Pangea or Signal Cable cords on a $4,000 amp. When tweeks and add-ons start costing the same or more than the equipment you are adding them to, it's time to think if it is worth doing. I am not by any means saying that it can't or should be better. A $50 - 100 outlay for a better sounding power cord is a no brainer. But when you start talking about kilobuck investments you have to give some serious consideration to where else in the system you could invest that kind of money and where would you get the best payback.
I saw those in the recent AA and was tempted for applications like my computer and TV. I think one of my more recent epiphanies (see separate thread) is that there is no such thing as cheap giant killers. But these seem like a great replacement for stock power cords on things that you might otherwise just use the stock PC.
No more cheap no-name wires for me. You get what you pay for.
I felt a little let down to see Manley's products listed in Audio Advisor. At least it was full price. Maybe they will get some action. I like to read Audio Advisor, but it has a cheap midfi feel to it, like Crutchfield. But now Crutchfield has PSAudio, Thiel, MartinLogan, etc... The world is shrinking, lines are blurred, I'm so confused.
I also was shocked to see formerly dealer exclusive high end products being offered in on-line catalogs. But the unfortunate reality of it is that that this is a matter of survival for these companies. the whole business model of the small high service high end audio boutique is hanging by a thread. As the cost of equipment has spiraled, so has the cost of putting demo models on the showroom floor (these are not free, the dealer has to pay for them, and even if they can sell off the demo models for what they paid for then, the dealer still has to tie up 10s of thosands of dollars in demo equipment.) Add to this the fact that many of these shops were started in then late 70s and early eighties. This means that many of then original owners are rapidly approaching retirement age. (A problem facing the entire industry I might add). It is no wonder that many of the dealers that these companies had depended on over the years are closing up shop, leaving them not much choice but to embrace on-line sales. Quite a paradigm shift from the original business model, but one that a fear they must make in order to survive.
Why not buy a $4k amp and an $80 PC. I bet that would sound a lot better than a 2K amp and 2K PC.
Mike
It might.... But Kaptovator is a transcendent wire if the 2k amp has something more to give when so enabled. I would want to hear the difference myself before choosing. What do you use on the NuForces Mike?
I don't get it. The owner Jay Victor holds over 40 patents in wire design. Is responsible for many of the high end cords out there. Their goal is to bring high quality at a reasonable price. Something we all can agree upon.
They test as well as listen to their product compared to the big boys and have created a VG product. Maybe the company is new but Mr. Victor is not new to the party. He is a seasoned powercord designer. Read his Bio on the site.
Now about giant killers. Far and few between but if you look hard enough they are out there. A few that come to mind are; Promitheus TVC & DAC, Oritek DAC, Fi amps and preamps , Silverline speakers, Anti Cable Silver ICs, Nightshade Audio, Home Grown, Alan Maher, Vandersteen 2CE , Magnepan, NAD, Odyssey, Herbies.
Now if one has to have the big names and high prices to get that warm and cozy feeling, GREAT. The entire business model was created when Gordon Holt and later by Harry Pearson created the " HIGH END". Then later on I forget who stated that cables should be about 10% of system cost. Brilliant. Remember when NBS got started selling expensive powercords. When a customer cut up one and found Romex inside and the cord cost $2000. That started the flooby dust theories to abound. and still prevalent today. Since many advancements in winding and geometry have taken the cords to a new level as well as the price the game is on. Why do you think there are so many cable manfs ? With a large profit margin its a natural.
The model needs to be revised IMO. ZU is thinking out of the box with their house parties. Norvinz offers reps to come to your home to demo gear. I would pay $50 for a demo . If I purchase the $50 would be deducted from price. No brick and mortar required. The Rep could work on 10% plus expenses. Manf. could offer distributor cost to the rep. and the customer can save 30% or more. Works for me. Best part you are evaluating the piece IN YOUR SYSTEM. Sorry for therant just woke up.
charles
Quote from: Deton Nation on December 11, 2009, 07:33:28 AM
Why not buy a $4k amp and an $80 PC. I bet that would sound a lot better than a 2K amp and 2K PC.
Mike
BRILLIANT!!!!!!! Until pressured by the dealers to sell more cords CJ and AR finally gave in. Van Alstine still will not add an IEC to his gear. Lou Johnson was one of the last to give in. He felt a direct connected cord was better. Especially since the cord was designed for the piece. Yes cords make a difference that is understood. Johnson believed that a well designed power supply with chokes and filtering was the answer NOT the cord.
So I would rather own a CJ amp for $4000 with a Pangea cord than a Ming Da and a top tier cord. But that's me.
charles
Quote from: richidoo on December 11, 2009, 08:04:22 AM
It might.... But Kaptovator is a transcendent wire if the 2k amp has something more to give when so enabled. I would want to hear the difference myself before choosing. What do you use on the NuForces Mike?
I use the Magic Cables by SignalCable... Deinitely better than stock. But reasonably priced..
M
Quote from: rollo on December 11, 2009, 08:28:38 AM
I don't get it. The owner Jay Victor holds over 40 patents in wire design.
I don't know Jay Victor (never heard of him until this thread) nor do I really care about Pangea but you do realize just how easy it is to get a patent right? If your making a buying decision based on the number of patents somebody holds, you are making a misinformed buying decision.
Last time I checked Bose and Monster (and others) had their fair share of patents and I think we all know what level of performance you can expect with those lines. I'm not saying this guy's cords aren't any good as like I said I don't know them (they look similar to PS Audio's) but the number of patents is meaningless.
Rich,
I have no doubt that the Kaptovator will sound better on a @k amp than a cheaper cable would, my question is whether a Kaptovator on a 2K amp will sound better than spending the same amount of money on a 3.5K amp and a Signal cable or Pangea power cord. I just think that when you are pulling out that kind of money for a power cord it leads to other options that could be explored that wouldn't be there if you were spending a couple of hundred on the PC.
The big buck PC may end up being the best choice, but you never know.......
I personally always tell people to upgrade the gear first and than accessorize. It hurts my sales from time to time but it is what it is.
Putting a $500.00 power cord or even using a set of $500.00 ic's on a $250.00 cd player has never made any sense to me as a $250.00 cd player is only capable of doing so much.......regardless of what you do to it.
But that is me. Others look at things differently and that is fine and dandy with me. :D
That's why I said "If the 2k amp has enough to keep up with the Kaptovator" You can't believe what it does Tom, and there are some really great little amps out there that can fill the shoes. That's why I would want to hear the comparison of vinyl cheapo wire on a $4k amp against a totally unleashed well designed 2K amp. Last week I heard a very inexpensive amplifier with captive $6 mouser cord keep up with my $7k Manley tube amps on BSA Silver Ref 5 last weekend. A friend wondered what it could do with a great PC soldered in. But then it wouldn't be cheap anymore.
Temporary connections are an extreme hazard in our systems, especially on high power connections. EIC jack is just one more to increase impedance of the incoming power. Oyaide or Wattgate connectors really help, but they cost. Ideally you could solder a well engineered high end PC to the transformer input leads and get the best of both. Or even better, solder the romex to the trafo. And a dab of silver contact paste on the breaker contacts. aa
Why stop at romex, let's put in bussbar :D
My kinda guy! :thumb: But I guess there's something to be said for NEC. But to stay legal with hardwired romex, you have to bolt the amps to the structure so the romex is never exposed. Try explaining that to the fire marshall, God forbid he should come over for a visit someday. :shock:
Details, details.....................
Quote from: Black Sand Cable on December 11, 2009, 08:55:12 AM
Quote from: rollo on December 11, 2009, 08:28:38 AM
I don't get it. The owner Jay Victor holds over 40 patents in wire design.
I don't know Jay Victor (never heard of him until this thread) nor do I really care about Pangea but you do realize just how easy it is to get a patent right? If your making a buying decision based on the number of patents somebody holds, you are making a misinformed buying decision.
Last time I checked Bose and Monster (and others) had their fair share of patents and I think we all know what level of performance you can expect with those lines. I'm not saying this guy's cords aren't any good as like I said I don't know them (they look similar to PS Audio's) but the number of patents is meaningless.
You assume a lot. Did I touch a nerve ? Why is it every time I post about a new inexpensive cord or talk about the business you attack. Is it personal ?
Ever since I asked you for a demo like everyone else you tell me " Buy one to find out" not interested. I have heard your high priced cord at the Rave meetings and in my home. Looks great, costs a lot and did not stay because my other less expensive cords frankly were better, much better actually.
I could care less about what you think about Mr. Victor. His products are flying off the shelves are yours ? Can't have enough stock. Remember I was a Manf. and dealer. So do not talk to me about pricing of cords ICs and the like. One of the highest profit margin items there is in all of audio.
Yeah this time you pissed me off. You are entitled to your opinion as well as me but your negative attitude is obvious. Yes I'm sensitive.
Quote from: rollo on December 11, 2009, 12:06:57 PM
Yes I'm sensitive.
It's OK Charles, you're in good company...
(//)
Is that pic from the Tiger Woods collection?
At this rate, very well could be. I wouldn't mind reading her naughty texts.
She does have a freckle on left hip though, damn shame.
Quote
Did I touch a nerve ?
I could ask you the same thing...but honestly, no you didn't. I actually find your ramblings amusing most of the time.
QuoteWhy is it every time I post about a new inexpensive cord or talk about the business you attack. Is it personal ?
Attack? Your doing the attacking there amigo, not me. I also think your over reacting just a little. As for the business side of things, I'm in it therefore I have a right to talk on the subject and as a result, I like to think I know at least a little on the subject. If you don't like my posts, do what I do with most of yours, ignore them and move on.
QuoteEver since I asked you for a demo like everyone else you tell me " Buy one to find out" not interested.
Ahhh the truth comes out. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but it is what it is.
QuoteI have heard your high priced cord at the Rave meetings and in my home. Looks great, costs a lot and did not stay because my other less expensive cords frankly were better, much better actually.
Forgive me if I don't fall over in shock hearing that you didn't like my cords. Why ask for a demo in the first place?.....and you wonder why I couldn't be bothered to send one. I think anybody who reads this would have done the same thing if they were in my shoes.
Quote
I could care less about what you think about Mr. Victor.
Sorry but when did I say anything about this guy? I said I didn't know the guy. Sorry if that in some way bugs you. :duh
Quote
His products are flying off the shelves are yours ?
Dam...my bad. I didnt realize you worked for him and based on your comment, you must have access to his sales history. Is that why you are on here promoting his stuff? As for my sales, I do fine.....thanks for asking.
QuoteRemember I was a Manf. and dealer. So do not talk to me about pricing of cords ICs and the like. One of the highest profit margin items there is in all of audio.
When the hell did I talk to you about pricing of cords and the like?
QuoteYeah this time you pissed me off. You are entitled to your opinion as well as me but your negative attitude is obvious. Yes I'm sensitive.
So this is my problem or yours? As for my negative attitude, you don't know me so please keep what you think you know to yourself as you don't have a clue.
(http://www.galapagos.org/photos/Images/boobies.hansliu.jpg)
Boobies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booby)
Damn! It's today? You mean today is MakeAnAssOfYourself Day? :duh Hah! I swear, I've witnessed at least a half dozen similarly silly arguments today. Must be something in the air....
Just my 2 cents worth but....
Charles - you kinda over-reacted
John - should have just left it alone
Rich - great picture! (no, not the boobies... oh wait, yes, the boobies, just not the birds :rofl:
Quote from: mdconnelly on December 11, 2009, 05:39:27 PM
John - should have just left it alone
Agreed......but sometimes shit happens! :thumb:
Quote from: richidoo on December 11, 2009, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: rollo on December 11, 2009, 12:06:57 PM
Yes I'm sensitive.
It's OK Charles, you're in good company...
(//)
(picture deleted by admin - not appropriate for work)
Hey....is this photo "safe for work" ? :rofl:
Sorry LW, I forgot. Problem fixed:
(//)
First, to all who have read this thread let me make one thing perfectly clear. I do not represent Pangea or any other manf. Second I auditioned the BS cord AFTER being rejected. BTW it was after your rejection that I was able to try them out. :duh Hey another dealer here sent me JPS cables to audition $9500 worth for a free demo . I bought the SC3 ICs, loved the Aluminata Spkr. cables but passed at $7500. I was curious to hear your PC since many have been pleased with it. So why not. Hey just because I have a problem with pricing of such, doesn't mean I would not bite. I have invested over $50,000 in my system. So I'm not cheap just sensible, well most of the times anyway. Loving my JPS SC3 ICs :drool: at the moment. Other cables in the house are Omega Mikro PC, Tara Decade IC 5mtr., Siltec PC, ESP PC, Morey James SC,Essence SC, Eclipse SC, Supra SC and IC, Harmonix Golden Ratio IC, JPS SC3 IC and Stealth Dream ribbons SC. Around $10,500 worth of cables. Yes I agree that all those cables sound fine. The difference is subtle and again IMO not worth the difference in money, well unless money didn't matter, but it does. Hmmm $2000 for [2] powercords or a new Soundsmith cart. for $1600. and $400 left over for music. Again prudent buying that's all I'm trying to convey here. My take my opinion. Not DISSING yours or any other PC just pricing of the industry. :duh.
I have played the game for a long time [over 30 years] and have realized most of it if not all is BS hype, marketing and the like. Then comes along a cable like Supra at less than $6/ft. and equals some, or betters most of them. Or Anti cable Silver ICs with Eichman or dislike for you or your product, it just appears to me that you do. You do sell PC correct. other than to alert my fellow AN members with interesting products.at a reasonable price. The Pangea may be a piece of crap but then again it may not. At the priceits worth a go . If it does not satisfy send back or use for TV or computer.
I apologize for my over reaction but I'm Italian so forgive me. At least we both get arseholes of the day award so peace you have youropinions I have mine. Live andlet live.
MERY CHRISTMAS
charles
Quote from: rollo on December 12, 2009, 08:39:03 AM
I apologize for my over reaction but I'm Italian so forgive me.
Is that why you picked the smiley that looks like it is talking with its hand??? :duh
Funny, I tend to use that one a lot as well. :thumb: Never made the connection until I read your last post.
Buon Natale! :D/
You think its easy trying to type and talk at the same time. Foogetaboutit. :rofl: I'm buying two 9ga Pangea cords and will send to anyone who would like to try them on their amps. As I stated in the "subject of this thread " " Are they the real deal ? " That is the question. For $160 IMO its worth a try. Is Mr. Victor for real ? Don't know yet so the reason for the start of the thread.
Also curious as to the new cord by Alan Maher [ Infinity Strings] for $160 each and $10/ add ft.
charles
Sir Charles,
I bought two of the Pangea's the day I got the AA catalog. I got the 14 gauge version ( 2 ft) for my Gen Rad 1201-B Regulated Tube Power Supplies.
With a hacksaw, I cut off the IEC's to directly wire (silver solder) them into the PS ( REMEMBER: the best connector is "NO Connector!".) Did this before Thanksgiving...
All I can say is that the cables are extremely well made & constructed. I noticed a slightly quieter background after changing out the original captive cords. All the detail & dynamics remain as well...
For $40 + S&H, for 2 power cords... a complete no brainer & I'm happy!
My $0.02... Hope to see you soon...
Pete
I have heard the Ac-14 cord on two dacs, the new Oppo Blu-Ray player and that results was great. I am tempted to put the cord on my Dac and maybe the Ac-9 on my amp.
Liz
Quote from: Lizard_king on February 01, 2010, 03:03:57 AM
I have heard the Ac-14 cord on two dacs, the new Oppo Blu-Ray player and that results was great. I am tempted to put the cord on my Dac and maybe the Ac-9 on my amp.
Liz
I have tried the 14ga as well on my lector. Very good results.
charles
More and more good reports coming in. Several of our Club members have reported the merrits of this cord. All positive. Looking better and better.
charles
Well boys it is the real deal. Last evening at our club meeting we used the 9ga cord with the new Oppo SE. It bested every cord we tried. No names to protect the innocent. We have tried many many PCs individually and at club events. Our resident cord Guru Roy loves em. Believe me he is NOT easy to please as he has reviewed many a PC.
The only cord that gave it a challenge was a cord made from the NOS GE wire by John Weisner. My take is several Pangea cords will be purchased by even are most skeptical members.
KABOOM for the buck. BTW we preferred the 9ga. to the 14ga. More weight and body.
charles
Aw, c'mon Rollo - You know it's the golf analogy that has you pumped about these cords :thumb::
(Joking - Thanks for the info re these cords)
QuoteTaking Tiger's Approach
Pangea Audio's 'component to the wall outlet' design approach is much like the way that Tiger Woods plays golf. Most golfers think of hitting the ball from the tee to the green. They hit the ball as far as they can on each hole to get as close as possible to the green.
Tiger's approach is just the opposite. He thinks from the green back to the tee. He asks, 'What ball placement on the fairway will give me the best opportunity for a birdie putt today?' Today, his caddie recommends, with a slight wind out of the west, the best shot would be an 7-iron 150 yards from the left of the fairway to the back edge of the green. So Tiger gets out his 3-wood, rather than his driver, and hits the ball to that spot on the fairway to set up a second shot that will give him the best opportunity for a birdie putt.
Pangea's 'component to the wall outlet' design results in a better cable that's designed just for the component you want to power. The cable gives you precisely what you need - no more and definitely no less.
Just ordered a 14 gauge Pangea for my Lector, have heard good things about this cord and would love to find a great $20 PC!! 20 bucks! now we are talkin!
Will let you know how it works in my system.
Mike
Quote from: rollo on February 14, 2010, 08:00:46 AM
... It bested every cord we tried. No names to protect the innocent.
OK, no names but how about a hint at the price range of what you compared it to? And, did you try it on any components other than the Oppo?
Just curious... Thanks!
FWIW - you can buy the Pangea power cords and HDMI cables on Amazon.com for the same prices and it includes free shipping without the AudioAdvisor $199 minimum order. Amazon is just fronting for AA.
rollo...
QuoteNo names to protect the innocent.
Ah....come on Charles...that's a "cop out".... :rofl:
.............. name some names... :D/
Every review should be in context.. give the following:
Personal tastes
Size of room and treatments used
Associated Gear used, specifics where required.. special attention to speaker placement, nearfield, etc.
Then and only then will you get much from the results. I've had cables 'beat' others in my room many times. Only problem is, my preference and room are wildly different than someone else's... so it's almost an useable comparison.. unless it's day and night.. We tried a pc from Grover once that made a profound degradation of sound quality.. I was reminded of how much a pc makes a difference. All the other cords changed the character of the presentation different ways.. and I think of 6 people, there were 3 different winners. I even wondered if the Grover would've been a winner in someone else's system... And I thought.. I bet it would.. somewhere out there...
-C
Quote from: lonewolfny42 on February 14, 2010, 07:35:24 PM
rollo...
QuoteNo names to protect the innocent.
Ah....come on Charles...that's a "cop out".... :rofl:
.............. name some names... :D/
Now now we have some VERY sensitive PC guys out there. So I will name the ones we do not know personally. ESP, Omega [ yes hard to admit], Siltech Gen 2, . I believe Bob M. had a demo day as well similiar results so maybe he would post the contenders.
charles
Here's a link to a shootout I did some time ago (2 years), and it doesn't include all of the current favorites that many people are talking about.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50799.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50799.0)
Quote from: mdconnelly on February 14, 2010, 11:21:37 AM
Quote from: rollo on February 14, 2010, 08:00:46 AM
... It bested every cord we tried. No names to protect the innocent.
OK, no names but how about a hint at the price range of what you compared it to? And, did you try it on any components other than the Oppo?
Just curious... Thanks!
$350 and up. . Only the Oppo at the meeting. My demo was on the Lector CDP. My amp is hard wired as well as the preamp. The Cyber 211s are being modded as we speak so they are next.
Bob your latest findings.
charles
I picked up a short Pangea AC-9 that I intend to use on the bedroom system. Damn, this cable is the biggest, fatest, thickest, stiffest cable I've ever seen. Of course, that says absolutely nothing about how it will affect sonics but I'm really struck by just the sheer heft of it. This ain't no lightweight knockoff cable. For the price, this thing is a monster.
I think I'm going to break it in on my main rig for a few weeks just to see what I hear.
I just got my Pangea 14 today, seems the .6 meter version has a problem with the IEC end, it doesn't fit into an IEC socket!!
Seems a known problem by Audio Advisor yet they continue to ship them, mine is going back tomorrow, I guess I will never get to hear what they sound like.
Mike
If it don't fit...gotta acquit. :lol:
they must have smaller IEC's in China :rofl:
My .6m AC-9 IEC connection is VERY tight but with a bit of force, it does fit and given the weight of this cable, tight is the only way to go.
Some basic PC rules that have made my system sound better.
1. Suspend cable off floor with a loop of copper wire and string.
2. Keep all Cs away from walls [3" min.] and a min. of 6" apart.
3. If they must cross do it at a 90 degree angle. Avoid if possible.
4. All connections must be tight and CLEAN.
5. Use proper ga. for gear.
6. If IEC is loose wrap a piece of electrical tape around IEC for snug fit.
So what will these reccos yield. Quieter background, more music. no hums, buzzes. A more open sound. I remember when I first suspended all my cables. It looked like A mad scientists lab. Our club members laughed a bit. It looked silly but the results out weighed the look so suspended they remain.
charles
Just got my Pangea AC-9 and put it on my Classe' Twenty-five amp in place of the Signal Cable MagicPower PC that has been there for about a year. Initial impressions: Tonally nothing jumped out at me as radically different. The Pangea seemed to give a a bit if detail resolution as compared to the Signal Cable, but along with that detail softening came a bit more relaxed and smoother overall presentation. The Pangea seemed to shift the Classe's sound to one that was somewhat more tubelike in character. None of the changes were large enough to constitute a right or wrong difference, but rather fell more in the range of personal preferences.
Now keep in mind that these are only initial impressions based on a very short listening session (I got home from work and only had about 20 minutes to spare before I had to leave for the ice rink to run hockey playoffs - it's that time of year again). I only listened to one song and the Pangea had literally 5 minutes of break in time on it. I will let the cable bake for a week or two, do some more extensive listening and report back to you guys with any futher conclusions.
I just started using my Pangea AC 14 on my cd player yesterday.
Totally new I heard a black background with vivid dynamics and very good bass,and very open, top was a little hot, just a tad, but that probably will tame with burn in, it had maybe 2 minutes of burn in.
All in all , I like it. Is it better than the Shunyata Anaconda? No.
But it ain't bad at all, and it costs $20!
Since I can't afford the Shunyata, the Pangea stays! I might get a 9 gauge to hardwire to my amp.
Mike
Hi Guys, While I've enjoyed following many posts on this site, this will be my first one here. The Pangea PC's are a current interest of mine. While I was one of those long-standing holdouts who adamantly denied in principle without ever trying for myself that powercords could make any difference, yet alone an actual improvement in one's system, the day I finally broke down and actually tried an aftermarket cord to replace my OEM, (I started with one of Frank's Signal Cable Magic Power cables), and I completely 'Jumped ship". I have since then become a staunch upholder of the argument that they are a huge contributor towards improving one's sound system and regard anyone who refuses to believe the truth of it as someone just like my former self who unknowingly bathed in that [often arrogant] pool known as "Ignorance is Bliss"....
That said, I found myself agreeing with many points on this thread, especially the fact that this hobby of ours is the poster child when it comes to money spent and the laws of diminishing returns... namely: are there great $2k PC's out there? I'm sure of it... is your household income in the 'considerably above most' category? (Here's a test: If you've been debating between a new MB S-Class or your next pair of speakers, you're probably a good candidate for membership)...unfortunately I do not qualify and have always looked for the best bang for my buck/overachieving/giant killer product(s) I could find to help me continuously satisfy this incessant addiction...which leads me back to the power cord...
Personal sequence of events:
* Discover Signal Cable makes a great value improvement to my system... I outfit my entire system with Signal Cable PC's (Including 2 x Magic Digitals for my transport and processor, 2 x Magic Powers for my 2 separate power conditioners (one for analog only, one for digital only), one for my pre-amp, one for my Subwoofer, 2 for my mono-bloc amps...).
* Lived with and enjoyed a nicely improved [over stock] cords for quite a while
* Started dabbling in a few other relatively reasonable brands through the years...Swapping one or two at a time into my pre or power amps... a little with the digitals, etc, and eventually found another particular brand (at about 2.5X the Signal Cable's price) that still qualified as 'good value ' to my wallet but that also finally justified itself in sound improvement/quality to earn a "re-sell" of all the previous cables for a complete new package (all of the above listed components) of this new company's cables: I'll call them "Company X" so as not to name names....
* Happily lived with 'company X' just as before... thoroughly enjoyed how much a great sounding power cord could take my system's sonics to an even higher level... and, at a still reasonable price.
* Let's get to the punchline, shall I?
* OK: last week I tried a Pangea AC-9 in my transport...only due to the talk I've been hearing on the grapevine and from the personal experience of 2 fellow audiophiles whose opinions I value... it had about 90 seconds on it before I pressed "Play"
* The next day I ordered 4 more AC-9's... enough for most of my system (I have since switched amp manufacturers and am unfortunately living with captive PC's in my current mono blocs until the appropriate IEC surgery can be performed). UPS tracking #'s say ETA is 2 more days... the one on my transport has been cooking for almost 100 hrs without follow-up listening time since the first day....and I will be listening [finally] in about 12 hrs from now...
* Will the injection of them all into my system do what initial indications imply?
* Will company X be the next one in line to be sold down the Audiogon chain to the next lucky fellow looking for a reasonable way to improve his system as he carefully climbs up the never-ending ladder towards that legendary sweet-spot known solely as "Audio Nirvana"?
* With a 30 day money back guarantee (plus shipping of course) and several listening hours [luckily available] this very week...I'll be all ears...
Hmmm ... looks like I just posted another typically lengthy post for myself... someday I've got to work on being more "Pithy" ( a good word to know).
I'll stay in touch. Until then: Happy Lissn'n!
Quote from: Lissnr on March 28, 2010, 11:22:37 PM
Hi Guys, While I've enjoyed following many posts on this site, this will be my first one here.
Welcome to AN, Lissnr! Great 1st post, glad to have you here with us.
Rich
Welcome Lissnr. So far so good eh. Let us know moreof your findinds as time goes by. I have heard it takes over 200 hours for the sound to stop changing. Thanks for posting your opinion so far.
charles
The Pangea AC-9 cords are HUGE and if size were a measure of sound quality they'd be killer and at the current price, an amazing steal. But.... I will share my experience....
As stated earlier, I bought one for a 2nd system but decided to break it in on my main rig by having it feed a PS Audio Juicebar II that is feeding my entire system off a dedicated 20a circuit.
I will say that what I noticed most with the Pangea compared to two of my favorite cords (Black Sand Silver Ref and Alan Maher Quantum Reference) was a deeper and more pronounced bass. My initial impression was definitely a Wow! But... after extended listening, I found the balance was tipped in a direction that was not my cup of tea. I will say that when we tried it at a G2G at Shane's on his DAC...well, it kinda sucked (literally ;-). See Shane's post here: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2091.msg22067#msg22067
A few days later I tried it on my DAC/preamp at home and while the results where not as pronounced as at Shane's, it was still a step in the wrong direction. I have not tried it on my amp simply because it has a 20a IEC but I suspect if it's going to work well, that might be where it would be.
Caveat: All of my listening to this PC was in the 50-150 hours of use range and when we tried it at Shane's it had less than 50 hours on it. Recent posts suggest that given it's size, it could easily take far, far longer to breakin. Right now, it's not in use at all, but maybe I'll stick it on the frig for a month and give it a listen again at that time.
I have the Pangea ac 14, that I used for the power supply for my cdplayer (lector).
At first I was a bit excited about this cable, very open, dynamic, a black background and deep bass.
After about 50 to 100 hours it started to sound a little tipped up and a bit shrill at top.
I went back to my old cable and was relieved of the offensive sound. I lost some air and slam and some bass, but the musicality was back. Maybe it needs more time? My original cable has 1000's of hours on it so it may have an advantage of burn in. I may give the Pangea a second chance but only after some more burn in time on another product(fridge).
Not trying to knock the product, just describing what I hear, I know others have had great success with it, so system dependency definitly comes into play right now. If the Pangea could get a little more beauty on top it would be close to perfect for $20!!
Now that would be the ultimate tweak.
Mike
I can describe the magic cables since I had them in my full sytem. Great Bass. Dark sounding.. would be good for bright systems. Takes a bit of the dynamics out of the music but overall natural sounding. Rounded.
Quote from: Deton Nation on March 29, 2010, 03:53:35 PM
I can describe the magic cables since I had them in my full sytem. Great Bass. Dark sounding.. would be good for bright systems. Takes a bit of the dynamics out of the music but overall natural sounding. Rounded.
Are these comments about the Pangea cables? I don't mean to be picky, but Signal Cable has a power cord called the Magic Power Cord which retails for almost the same price as the Pangea AC-9 which makes it a natural comparison point. I just want to be clear as to which cable you are talking about. And if it is the Pangea do your comments relate to the AC-9, the AC-14 or both?
Sorry.. I thought I was clear. I was talking about the Magic Cables.
M
Quote from: Deton Nation on March 30, 2010, 02:55:07 PM
Sorry.. I thought I was clear. I was talking about the Magic Cables.
M
That was my very 1st power cord. I made it into an extension cord so iot wouldn't go to waste after replacing it with a much better VenHaus power cord. The only thing about that Magic Cable was it never had any magic whatsoever for me in my system IMHO.
Cheers,
Robin
Hi Guys, Just thought I'd get back to you with some personal observations after my AC-9 finally got some hours on it (I have just passed 375).
As I had previously posted, my initial impression was quite enthusiastic... so much so that I quickly ordered several more to fill out my remaining components. What I had noticed at first were characteristics quite consistent with Topround's , namely "Very open, dynamic, a black background and deep bass".To this I would add an impressive sense of space between instruments...
This is what 'caught my ear' so quickly and had me so excited.
Unfortunately, my experience also continued to agree with Topround's, as he states: "After about 50 to 100 hours it started to sound a little tipped up and a bit shrill at top". Let me add " A low level sense of haze or fine grain filling in the aforementioned 'blackness' ".
He continues:"I went back to my old cable and was relieved of the offensive sound. I lost some air and slam and some bass, but the musicality was back". I agree here as well although when it comes to bass I wouldn't say I lost some, it just seemed to return to a more integrated, call it 'organic integration' with the rest of the frequency range such that it wasn't as pronounced/attention grabbing, and without the slight grain I had mentioned...
After about 150 hours I decided to swap it from my transport into my DAC and see what I could tell. My first conclusion was that it was less 'influential' on my DAC... I had expected the opposite. In my mind, I had always figured the DAC should appreciate a digital (extra shielded/extra noise rejecting) cable more than a simple transport, but in my system, it was the other way... The DAC did not give me the instant benefits initially observed when the cable was new (why should it as it's now breaking in with less results?) but the sense of graininess was still hazing over the big picture and the richness I had been yearning for was continuing to digress.
What to do now? I wasn't willing to completely give up on it yet, after-all, it IS a very thick cable and may very well require an especially long break-in before reaching its ultimate abilities.
So.... I slapped it onto my [always powered up] subwoofer and let it cook another 200+ hours.
Which finally gets me up to today. At 150 hrs I wasn't even too impressed with it as a subwoofer cable... (and we all know that's not a good sign). While the grain was gone (my sub crosses over to my main speakers via an external electronic crossover and only receives a signal of 50Hz and below) it still did not sound as fluid, integrated or smooth as my other sub cable (remember "Company X"?) but it did have a certain 'slam factor' which I'll give it some credit for. As I reached the 300+ hour stage I'm thinking it has smoothed out somewhat more; I had needed to play with the sub volume levels at first to compensate for the differences between it and the 'company X' cable ('company X' was better integrated with the main system volume, the AC-9 was actually a bit 'drier' at first and even with the extra slam factor [when called upon], it still needed added volume to integrate properly) does that sound really odd?
Anyway, it's still on my sub right now and I've turned the volume back down to where it belonged [with my 'company x' cable] and it's doing fine. If they were both the same price which would I choose for my sub cable? It's pretty much a toss-up at this point, but when you consider the value, the AC-9 would get the nod. What this has done is allow me to take the 'company x' cable that had sub duty (their big power amp compatible model) and substitute it into my pre-amp which had been using their slightly lighter gauge 'designed for pre-amps and smaller amplifiers' model cable (I love overkill when it comes to gauge size on PC's).
As for the shipment on AC-9's which were headed my way: after all the experimenting with the one cable alone I felt I had a pretty good feel for what it was doing and when I considered the break in time and the less than ideal access behind my racks to some of these components, I decided to pay the local UPS store for the return shipping and sent the whole box of them straight back to AA. All done. Yes, I know, it would have been kind of exciting to dress an entire system in a brand new power cable (We all know how thick they are...) and see what happens but I just didn't think it was worth it, as described...
Finally: might I try the AC-9 at some point (after a few more hundred hours or so) on my transport or DAC again, just to give it one more shot? I probably will... maybe it's a 500 hour cable?! It sure looks like if there were such an animal, this one would be it! But for now I will say it's doing a good job on my subwoofer and at its price, there's a lot to be said for that. All in all:YMMV but with extensive break in it makes a good value sub cable and worth checking out elsewhere in your system if you have the time and patience to experiment for yourself.
Happy Lissn'n
Thorough and honest review. Thanks for taking the time.
charles
Have one ordered. What the heck, should be fun and if my stereo doesn't like it my plasma might.
The Cherry I was borrowing in the past exhibited a big improvement going from el cheapo to a Black Sand Siver Ref MKV (sorry I "stole" a pair from you on an Agon auction, John :thumb:). Tommy just could not believe it - The engineer in him was very perplexed by what he was hearing. (he he - that was fun to see!)
Maybe the Pangea will do things I'll like to the high power, linear PS Cherry Jr I now own.
-Mike
I'll put up my $50 Audio Magic Extreme power cord against any of these bargain basement pretenders anyday, anytime, anywhere (if I'm there). :rofl:
Cheers,
Robin
You should try a Western Electric. Very nice!
Quote from: Deton Nation on April 10, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
You should try a Western Electric. Very nice!
Well if it's the same Western Electric company of tube fame, then I'm all ears.
Now that would make for a good RAVE shootout,, power cords under $100's only. The only thing with that tho is that what really makes mine so great is a $300 Z-Sleeve Ultra that fits directly over the molded IEC. 8)
Is that cheating??? :shock: :D
Cheer,
Robin
I just bought two 8ft 10GA. Western Electric NOS cords with Jet Oxaide copper plugs. With about 20 hours on them I am quite pleased with the results. My reference cord is the Omega Mikro active. I will do a comparison when the WE is broken in. So far though very very good results.
The wire is a stranded Litz design which is annealed with "Permalloy". The plugs are tightened to 12 ft lbs of torque, polished, and coated with Progold. Ordered a Carbon nickel shield to try as well. We shall see.
PS if interested in this PM Triode Pete. He is making up cords in a joint venture with John Weisner who built all th Dr. Loesch p[reamps and amps before Tempo Electric. $200 for 2 mtrs with Oxaide plugs.
charles
I too drank the koolaid when I saw the Pangea AC-9 and all the hype. Bought an AC-9 and an AC-14. When I first put it in my system (in which I had been using Synergistic Research A/C Master Couplers) the soundstage collapsed, imaging was vague, and that lasted all of 5 minutes. Now the A/C-9 is on my computer and the AC-14 is on a TV. I'll let them burn in a few hundred hours (or more) and bring them out to listen again but my initial impressions were not very good. Not a magic bullet anyway imho.
Mark
Quote from: sdmark3d on March 08, 2011, 12:07:29 AM
I too drank the koolaid when I saw the Pangea AC-9 and all the hype. Bought an AC-9 and an AC-14. When I first put it in my system (in which I had been using Synergistic Research A/C Master Couplers) the soundstage collapsed, imaging was vague, and that lasted all of 5 minutes. Now the A/C-9 is on my computer and the AC-14 is on a TV. I'll let them burn in a few hundred hours (or more) and bring them out to listen again but my initial impressions were not very good. Not a magic bullet anyway imho.
Mark
The SignalCable Magic Power Cord and the Pangea AC-9 were my first forays into the aftermarket power cord world. While neither was perfect I felt that each one provided a significant upgrade over a stock cord (each of course in a different way) and that they were a good value for the money, both compared to a stock cord looking down and most other after market cords looking up (which may have had better performance, but also carried a much heftier price. Not that I am trying to say that anyone shouldn't buy a more expensive cord - price vs performance is always a personal decision.)
However all of that went out the window when I heard Triode Pete's cords. Others have compared them very favorably s to some big buck cords. I personally can only compare them to the Pangea and SignalCables and they just blew both of them away.
Check out the AN thread on Pete's cords:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2398.0
And his new web site:
www.TriodeWireLabs.com
We gots a winner here. Boy! The background is so quiet you can hear a grasshopper piss on the cotton. Yesum boys ya all plug em in ya hear.
charles
Already got an 8awg one from Pete on the way :rofl: to feed a Majik Buss Rev B and I am checking my son's piggy bank to see if I can afford a pair of his 10awg for my amps!
Dave from PI Audio (mfr of Majik Buss) has already bestowed the highest accolade one cable manufacturer can give another and added Triode Pete to his (short) recommended list of power cord suppliers.
The Pangea is definitely an upgrade from a stock cable which is why I kept them instead of returning them as I could have. There may be a piece of gear that they just have synergy with - but they need lots of burn-in, to my ears anyway. In the bio for Jay Victor they mention he was "new products development manager for the most famous cable manufacturer in the world." Google reveals that company to be Monster Cable, although he has done some work for XLO and a few other quality guys. Monster Cable has never on my list of high end, quality power cords. (but I did use their power lines speaker cables way back when)