When one looks back at the history of high end audio (or high fidelity as it was called in the 50s) we see that it was originally driven by some visionary pioneering companies like Marantz, Harmon/Kardon and JBL to name a few. While quite successful in the 50s most of these companies sold out to Japanese conglomerates in the late 60s as their founders began to retire. two notable exceptions are Grado and MacIntosh which have seemed to survive on their own (although I am not sure OT the corporate lineage of Mac). This brought us into what I will call the dark ages of audio there freeing companies traded on the reputation and good will of thus audio pioneers to sell cheap mass produced solid state equipment that produced a mere fraction of the sound quality of the early Hoff gear. We began to see a light at the end of the tunnel when a few dedicated audiophiles began to build and market audio gear with the goal of producing the best possible sound for the user rather than the biggest possible profit for the company. They were music lovers first and businessmen second. These pioneers Bright us innovations and musical performance that we couldn't have even dreamed of in 1970. And most of these companies are still controlled today by their original founders. Mignon, Martin Logan, Whetstone Thiel, Conrad-Johnson, PS Audio, VPI and VTL are still to a large extent still run by the people who built them up with their own sweat equity. But just as we are seeing the graying of the American workforce, we are also seeing the graying of the high-end audio industry. Most of these high end pioneers are rapidly approaching retirement age. Bill Johnson just sold Audio Research Corp. to an Italian conglomerate.This is a scary thing because unlike a passionate founder whose primary goal is to produce a superior product, someone who buys a company is making a cash investment and their primary goal will be to earn a better return on that investment as compared to other things they could have invested in. If making a better product leads to a bigger return then so be it, but the thought priority is profit first quality second.Could this be the beginning of a return to the dark ages?
Jim Thiel's untimely passing reminds us that there are things other than the lure of a Florida retirement community that can take our audio gurus from us. In the case of Thiel we are luck that Kathy Gornick has committed to keep the company going, but heck, she was Jim's original partner 32 years ago, so how long will it be before she is looking to move on with her life? The bottom line is that it is kind of scary to think about what will happen to then industry (and our hobby) when all of these pioneers start to leave the business. One positive note, when Classe' was sold a year or two ago, it was bought up by the B&W group, which while it is a big corporate entity, it also has firm roots in the high end business. So there is hope, but the prospects still make em kind of nervous.
What do you guys think?
Not sure about the gear industry's direction.. like every other boutique/specialty area, it seems to be taking a hit at the moment. But long term direction of companies will depend on how they market themselves now... and of course if the products actually perform well. I think a lot of small companies will just fade away and blame the market. Others will sell their brand to a bigger company, and some may just get super creative and a little lucky and make a big name for themselves. It'll be an emotional few years to come.
I will say that I think the hi-fi industry is fueled by good music, and people wanting to hear it better. There are millions of songs available and seemingly endless avenues to get them right now. And most of it is stuff I don't want to hear. I think a lot of people are in the same boat. The stuff I hear on the FM radio isn't going to drive music or gear sales, except maybe ipods. There doesn't seem to be a point to today's music. Unless of course, pitch perfect robots (autotune) really speaks to you.
So, while the hifi gear guys are retiring, so are the good musicians. So yes, I could see a dark ages coming.. but it's what's needed to get good music later. I can wait rather than listen to what's coming out lately. There is no heart, no story, and no message. What's the point of putting that on a hifi?
-C
You're right, the current economic situation will only add to the problems I spoke of. But there are a few more things that are adding to the problem. As far as dealers go one of the problems is that a lot of the high roller "pre-amp of the month" type customers have moved on from audio to home theater. Many of the guys who used to show off by having the biggest baddest stereo in the neighborhood are now throwing their spare change into the biggest and baddest flat screen on the market. Audio is not the current "status" technology that it once was (not to mention that many of those guys were Wall Street types that don't have jobs anymore, never mind spare change....) Losing these cash cow customers has been a big blow to many dealers.
Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the American public, and especially the youth, have become increasingly accepting of audio mediocrity. For most kids good sound means buying $20 vs $5 earbuds. The audio industry desperately needs to broaden its base of potential customers. I won't be long before most of us old farts are either too deaf to hear the difference or to old to carry new gear down the stairs to the mancave (if we can even get down the stairs ourselves. If the industry does not cultivate interest in younger people today, they will eventually run out of customers over the long term.
This is not without hope. I don't think it is that kids don't care about quality sound, it is just that very few have ever been exposed to it. My 15 year old has grown up around good sound and enjoys it immensely. He loves to bring friends down to the mancave and blow their mind. Without fail they come up the stairs shaking their heads and talking about how they have never heard anything like that before. Now none of them have the money required to set something like that up (hell, it took me 20 years to do it), but at least if they know it can be done there is a chance they may pursue it as they get older. The golf industry came to this realization a while back. 20 years ago golf was basically an old white guys sport. Realizing that they had just about tapped out the old white guy market the powers that be in golf (the PGA, the USGA, etc.) set out to put into motion a series of programs aimed at making golf more inviting to kids, women and minorities. This of course was helped out a great bit by the appearance on the scene by Tiger Woods, a young successful minority player (which went along very well until about two weeks ago, so much for the role model....). These programs have been very successful at attracting new demographic groups to the game. The audio industry need to figure out how to accomplish something similar.
While I do agree with you about today's music, I do see a silver ling to that as well. Having two teenage boys and being in voled in Boy Scouts and two youth sports groups, I spent a lot of time interacting with young men. Over the last few years there has seemed to be an increasing interst among them in old time classic rock. I guess this is in response to the lack of quality new music (I love to overhear comments about finding a great "new" artist named Bob Seeger). My son is even starting to gain an appreciation for acoustic jazz especially Ben Webster. So the kids are starting to seek out good music. Now if only we can get them to connect the dots between good music and good music with good sound the industry will have a much healthier future.
Tom
Like any other part of the entertainment industry, the youth control the products we see. Catering to other niches is for the older generation that remembers a time "when things were better than they are now..." and they sell to themselves, a diminishing resource. "How do we attract iPod generation?" You don't! You are too old to channel the revolutionary products they are seeking. You still think vinyl is making a comeback. :rofl: They will have their own Bob Dylan, and their own toys. High end mfgs and press who say "pitypoopoo the iPod is ruining my life" are not getting it. Music connects no matter what fi. When the iPod complainers were 15yo hanging at the beach there was only portable AM radio. It is much better now for music loving juveniles, and if they want lossless they can have it. Oh, and the same gadget will play any movie on demand, satnav, purchase anything on demand without a wallet, video conference, and play pacman - for $400. Today's 15yo will choose immersive 3D interactive hologram games for their high end entertainment when they are 40yo ready to piss away some cash, but the 15yos then will still be the driving factor in the development of new technology, and they will be having sex with aliens with their simulated imagination generators while they ride the subway. And the podgy old farts like us will be saying they are ruining the art of interactive holographic movies, pitypoopoo!! Mark my words! :thumb:
Marantz did his thing, and it was important artistic brushstroke. Now Marantz is just a marketing label for older people who value nostalgia. I don't see any portable Marantz or McIntosh players, or video game consoles.
I know that Rich is correct because it has always been the youth of each generation that has driven the music industry. Most of you cannot remember the uproar Elvis Presley created with the parents when his popularity hit the roof in the 50's or the mass hysteria created by the arrival of the Beatles in 63. The old farts in those days did not like the Beatles just as we the old farts of today don't care for Rap or whatever the youth of today enjoy!
Do any of you have any idea what percentage of people that listen to music would fit into the category of audiophiles? I have no idea but I would bet less than 1%. In any event the percentage is quite small which means the companies catering to the audiophile is trying to sell to a finky buyer and can expect relatively low sales volume. This business model just does not fit well into the large corporations.
Ken
To answer the OP original question;
From my little corner of the world, my prediction is that (popular) music will continue to have sound quality that is crap. However, us audiophiles will continue to be entertained by those musicians who have chosen to create the type of art WE are most fond of in a standard of quality we've accepted. The "Hanna Montana generations" of the world will continue to compress the shit out of their music, but the people we know and enjoy, will continue to produce a quality recording. There will always be another artist in our niche that's new and fresh on the scene to keep us entertained. Sure, we won't be able to peruse the never ending store shelves at Wallyworld for our treasure of the week, but it'll still be available. You'll just be forced to find it via our little comfy corner of the music world. So will audio history repeat itself? No...In order to repeat something you would have had to have ended it. In the case of good, better, best music, it's never ended. All types have always been here for "whoever listens to whatever" to hear. Those that listen to the top 40 on the radio and know the words to all the songs, well, we're on a different level. There is no common ground other than the physical media. That, as has been proven, doesn't mean much.
- Print out an artists list from your music library and take it to a local high school or college and have the students put a check mark by the ones they know.
- Next, print a list of the students libraries.
- Lastly, take those lists to the major recording studios. Who are they going to "feed"?
Not you my friend. Not a chance. We'll always be who we are and they'll always be who they are. We will always be "here" and they will always be "there". Every once in a while there will be a kid that "gets it", but for the most part we're on a different plain.
:thumb: Rich, that's one of the most accurate and honest posts I've seen all year.
Well said. VERY well said. I agree 100%. My son (much to my surprise) made a phone call from his handheld PSP the other day. :shock: You could have knocked me over with a feather. I had no idea that was possible. I was the kid who programmed my parents VCR 'cause they didn't have the "smarts". Now I feel like a dumbshit.
I like the sex with aliens thing. Most intriguing. Is there a list I could get on? Maybe a line ticket for the main list? Some alien "strange" sounds interesting.
Bob
Quote from: Bigfish8 on December 11, 2009, 02:25:46 PM
......the companies catering to the audiophile is trying to sell to a finky buyer and can expect relatively low sales volume. This business model just does not fit well into the large corporations.
I agree totally and that was where my original post was going (although the original thoughts were related to hardware, not music, but as often happens this thread made a sharp turn and took on a life of its own :) )
My original thought was that high end equipment manufacturing is basically a cottage industry driven by a group of people who started their companies with a passionate vision and and decisions in those companies were driven first by the vision and second by the financials. As those pioneers retire and pass on these companies I fear the new owners will reverse that and base decisions mostly on the financials, which I am afraid will not work out too well for us as high end consumers.My comment about repeating history was looking at what happened to audio product quality when the pioneers of the 50s sold out to large corporations and wondering if we were going to see that happen again.
Tom
It could be that new blood will take over the companies and lead them into greater innovation than ever. As long as there is a hunger for music, people will think up interesting ways to consume it with great enjoyment. If the corporate culture allows talent and passion to rise to the top, anything can happen. Usually as a company grows it becomes more risk averse, which is opposite the way it should be, but the visionary founder usually tolerates more risk in order to follow his passion.
Rich, I certainly hope your optimistic view turns out to be right. I guess my many years of working in a Fortune 25 company and constantly fighting with the bean counters has made me more apt to look at things from the dark side of the force. :evil:
Quote from: tmazz on December 11, 2009, 10:39:58 PM
Rich, I certainly hope your optimistic view turns out to be right. I guess my many years of working in a Fortune 25 company and constantly fighting with the bean counters has made me more apt to look at things from the dark side of the force. :evil:
Tom:
Possibly, the future of those craving very high performance audio products will lie with the ability of gifted modders. I offer some recently developed products as examples: The Squeezebox, The Transporter and the most recent Oppo BluRay Player. These are products developed and marketed by large corporations for the masses. Some audiophiles have judged their quality to be darn good but after modders have worked their magic the performance of these products reach new levels.
I think your original post is valid in that this business is changing and it is hard to predict where things or going in the future. It is a safe bet that some of the population will want their music quality to be deemed superior to that provided by the products sold to the masses. I suspect their will be people like our local Dr. Sol to fill this niche. At the very least I hope so! :thumb:
Ken
The bean counters are the forcefield to repel all risk. They have a function, to preserve what it already gained. They obstruct the gaining of new ground in large amounts. Winning is irrelevant. Only the CEO can overrule them, but if he's dead literally or figuratively then it's a no go. Corporate boards control him and the destiny of the company. Usually looking for 10% growth, not 200% which is what the start up needs to survive so he shoots for the stars and creates a new industry.
Ken, Slim Devices was a very small company with a big idea and lots of talent and productivity. Their idea evolved over 10 years tro the point it was valuable to a big company. Now you will see new colors of the same idea for years to come, but no new concepts.
Sol is actually of the mind that young people will enjoy listening to music on quality equipment, and price is the only barrier. He designs products that sound very good but cost much less than current products with same features. But the efficiency of a small company is needed to make it float.
Interesting thoughts men. Yes 2% of it all is high end. I believe the industry will continue. With the computer being used as the front end its only the beginning. Digital is getting better and better. The USB interface is not the cats meow so far. There is room for improvement which I look forward to. Ice amps are another example of advancement. Maybe not there 100% yet but they are getting better as the cottage industry gets involved. Then there are guys like Nightshade Audio. always thinking out of the box.
Lets think about this a minute. Really what new circuit designs for amps has really changed ? Until tripath, ice, digital nothing really innovative or new. Just rehashing the same circuits with better parts. I see a bright future for us. look Cd took a while to get right. give em a chance.
charles
I for one am cautiously optimistic. The one thing that is always certain in business is change. Some change not good, and some very much so. Companies like Audio Research, Conrad Johnson and a few others got started because the stats quo was mediocre and that was not good enough for people who have a passion and need to enjoy music. They have done well as they have stayed true to their core beliefs that its all about the music, and there are lots of people where music is a passion and a need. " A luxury once enjoyed becomes a need." Most companies that are driven by short term profit objectives, will not be around for the long haul. Companies that are strictly profit driven with no focus on quality and what the customer demands will not last as well. I think we all want the high quality companies to make a profit and stay in business. But over priced gear is not sustainable either. There is always going to be a niche market for good high quality gear that music lovers will search out. They have a had a taste of the good stuff and there is now no going back to average mediocre stuff. Companies like Ayre is one of those companies I feel understand that niche market of audiophiles/ music lovers that is poised to continue that great tradition of getting music done right for those of us who want it good because we got it bad. I recall some time back that many thought LP's were dead. Still around and will likely stay around regardless of the latest fad.
Henry
Quote from: rollo on December 12, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
... look Cd took a while to get right. .....
CD got it right ??? [-( [-X :^o
Your LP-12 must be writing you out of the will as we speak. :duh
We all are greying (or have died). Things, ways, and people come and go. History always cycles, those who don't learn from it are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
The internet facilitated cottage industry (and as rightly mentioned above involving modding) is probably the key to audio's future. Traditional bricks and mortar retailing already is the exception to the rule, save the really old school farts.
Financially times are tougher. Since the 70's the gap between haves and have nots has been growing.
Back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's geeks had few avenues, now audio competes (rather poorly) with computers, video games, and HT.
And except for fine folks like Tmazz, the positive male role model is a dying breed (and has largely been put down for decades as the irresponsible, violent, absent to family part of society that overall we are). So why should they be interested in what we're interested in?
The age group with the most disposable funds is 10 - 30. Therein lies the answer as to what drives much of our culture. The old adage, "follow the money to find the answers to life's mysteries," certainly applies here.
What scares us about MP3 is that is relatively close to audiophile quality for so little money (and we resist admitting it). The Wadia cradle is one pathway for migration, but way too expensive and inconvenient when you add amp/speaker/room. Those little clip-on amps (NuForce, Decware) with better earbuds/headphones might be the more viable approach.
Quote from: tmazz on December 12, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
Quote from: rollo on December 12, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
... look Cd took a while to get right. .....
CD got it right ??? [-( [-X :^o
Your LP-12 must be writing you out of the will as we speak. :duh
OK,OK so its better than it was. :duh
charles
One thing not yet mentioned, is I think that they're pricing them selves into oblivion. Seriously. Think about the engineering/development/assembly/man-hours/etc. that go into manufacturing a car. Then think about how much some of this "High-End" audio costs. I understand that Honda will sell more cars than Wilson will speakers, but I could by 4 Hondas, or one Porsche, for the cost of a pair of Wilsons. Earlier, Flat Panel TV was mentioned. Even those things are very affordable as compared to a "High-End" audio system. I think that part of it is our own fault, because we keep buying this stuff. Now I'm not saying it all sounds the same, because I know it doesn't... But how much is it really worth? The marketing; dealers, magazines, forums, etc. kept touting the mega buck stuff, so the prices kept climbing. I think "High-End" would be far more wide spread if it weren't for the financial sacrifices necessary to play. Just my $.02
P.S. The starter and a couple of the responses in this thread (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1943.0) are a good illustration of my point ;)
Quote from: Barry (NJ) on December 27, 2009, 12:30:58 PMBut how much is it really worth?
What's it's
worth, or what's it's
value?
Big difference. ;)
'Cause it's "worth" what we're willing to pay.
Just sayin'........
Bob
Couldn't agree more with you Barry.
But the expense to move up can easily sneak up on you. Partially because we obsess and let our imaginations run away with us. And of course no self respecting audiophile wants to admit they can't appreciate the differences between say a $20 interconnect and a $200 one.
Being obsessive there is no such thing as "good enough", although a few will admit to having had something better/cheaper back whenever. What I call "bass creep" is a good example. You might start out with a nice pair of standmounts, not too expensive and they sound pretty good. But they only go down to say 60 Hz and you know that you're missing the whole bottom octave. Then you read opinions that the bottom octave is foundational. So you read more and start thinking about subwoofers. Which leads you to consider if you should connect through the sub or parallel. Naturally two subs would be better than one. Or maybe you should just trade up to bigger speakers. Whichever way you go for that bottom octave the price for speakers just tripled and you've bought yourself sound transmission and room resonance headaches. Oh and did I mention that if you went parallel you might need bigger amps too?
Barry,
Unfortunately it's kind of a Catch-22.
The economics of small batch production causes very high prices which in turn cause sales to shrink, lowering the production runs, which in turn causes even higher prices which starts the whole thing over again. When did flat panel TV prices start to fall? When production volumes hit a critical mass such that economies of scale kicked in.
The problem we have with high end audio is that a) even in the heyday of high end the production volumes were extremely small compared to mass market producers and b) in recent years competition for discretionary spending form other entertainment categories such as video (home theater) and internet (not to mention a general drop in discretionary income due to the economic downturn) have eroded the base of high end customers even more. In a small volume business the fixed costs of running the business eat you alive as you production runs go down. If we as audiophiles stopped buying because of high prices my fear is that many of the high end companies could not lower their prices and remain solvent, so they would simply close up shop. We are in a hobby that requires high technology and low production runs, a combination of twop things that doi not exist well in the same space. :(
Its an embarrassment to see some of the prices charged. Years ago I attended a local audio club meeting where two $1,000 pairs of speaker cable were compared. No double blind testing, but none needed. The designs couldn't look or sound more different, one looked like silver 3/4 inch garden hose, the other about the size of CAT5 in a clear/flat 2 inch wide film. The little one lacked deep bass, duh. The big one lacked resolution and made everything sound bloated. I've had two pairs that cost under $200 each that bested either of those.
I'm saddened to see the end of bricks and mortar retail, but it had become a dinosaur with the geeky crowd moving to PC's/HT and the disposable income demographic (age 10 - 30) moving to MP3. Internet direct retailing has taken a major bite out of what market was left for audio. Tremendous values, like Odyssey Audio or Audio Concepts, Inc. are only available via the net. It's also sad that due to the cost of R&D, affordable high end audio digital sources are increasingly coming from modding of products outside our normal interest: Squeeze Box, Oppo, iPod via Wadia 170, etc.
My system was all researched/purchased via the net. The CDP is English; the DAC is German (with American cottage industry mods); the monoblocks are from an American internet only company; cabling and speakers (with Japanese drivers) are from American cottages. This seems to be the direction many audiophiles (who don't have tons of disposable income) are heading.
" My system was all researched/purchased via the net. The CDP is English; the DAC is German (with American cottage industry mods); the monoblocks are from an American internet only company; cabling and speakers (with Japanese drivers) are from American cottages. This seems to be the direction many audiophiles (who don't have tons of disposable income) are heading. "
My history, with variations, in a nutshell. Despite the implications for small dealers, I am not sorry about this trend. I used to hate going hat-in-hand begging "mister can I listen to them there speakers? Please?" in hi-end salons where I couldn't possibly afford anything except maybe a pricey jap import lp. To be shooed out when a customer with maybe-money came in, none the wiser for my boot licking. Trolling the web, putting together opinions and hands-on experience, has been far more instructive and because I can't get caught out so easily by an impulse buy, I have made far fewer mistakes.
There is definitely some trickle down happening though. Unfortunately the smaller shops that often innivate something are not necessarily the ones who benefit most from that development. It's the big consumer production companies that pick up on the change, if it makes a splash, and incorporate it into their product. Tjhen they price it low and drive the original innovator out of business.
For instance, Meridian and Ayre picked up on the anti-aliasing filters in DAC chips. This was apparently developed by an independent fellow who licensed it to them for thier usage. It is ground breaking and produces a very real benefit on CD and digital playback. Well I just heard the new NAD class D integrated, which does something somewhat similar in their DAC software (at least I think it does per the salesman).
This little Class D amp doesn't sound anything like the other Class D amps that I've heard. No digital ants crawling up my spine. It is truly a stride forward for this topology and sounds damn nice. Very clean, but not great in the "love" department where we need a little bit of tube to help out. Not possible here because it processes everything in the digital domaine without adding unnecessary stages of analogue to digital transformation.
Enjoy,
Bob
I'm watching that one closely, Bob. NAD M5. Thanks for the report.
A mom and pop can do some things better than the giants. Like change and adapt much faster, do customized work, and provide personalized service. But unless the price remains on par with the giant then it means nothing. In the end it's still just an amp. It's more important than ever to deliver good value now.
Back on topic, I do see history repeating itself in terms of the masses not experiencing or appreciating what the 3D stereo image is. That innovation has never been well understood, even by the audiophilia. Much of the blame goes to the music producers and studio folks that could have mixed properly, but rarely have. We don't even use the word stereo anymore to represent what all this is about. Frankly the way many of us listen, we'd be ahead to just run a single (better) channel of amplification and loudspeaker. Other than our human love/need for symmetry and balance, stereo could have been lost decades ago.
Now HT, MP3 driven personal listening habits, and in car systems could doom the whole thing. Never fathomed by the masses, within a generation the industry we now call audio could be all but completely gone.
QuoteNow HT, MP3 driven personal listening habits, and in car systems could doom the whole thing. Never fathomed by the masses, within a generation the industry we now call audio could be all but completely gone.
It would be easy to agree with this comment but none of us can see the future. While I was in college living in a dorm in 1972 there were two guys on the floor that had nice systems. Audio gear back then was very expensive and therefore it was unique for someone to have a system. The two guys that owned the systems were not wealthy, they just loved listening to music. In relation to the current topic I believe the experience of my college days is that a certain, small percentage of people value the presentation of music more than the masses. We now call this group audiophiles and I believe there will be a percentage of the population in future generations that will continue to value the presentation of music. They will want it to listen to music in a unique way compared to the masses. The equipment they use may be totally alien to what we use today but this group will be the audiophiles of future generations. Since I believe in free enterprise I have confidence that companies or individuals will supply their needs.
Ken
Quote from: JLM on December 29, 2009, 03:21:10 AM
We don't even use the word stereo anymore to represent what all this is about.
Frankly the way many of us listen, we'd be ahead to just run a single (better) channel of amplification and loudspeaker.
You should look up the meaning of "stereo-phonic" from the Greek.
We now have 2,3,4,5,6,7+ channels that all fit the definition, so we call it 2 channel to differentiate.
Did you do a poll or something on how most of us listen?
Maybe we do listen as we do other things sometimes, but I think many (most?) of the 2/ch people on forums like AN sit in the "sweet spot" a lot also.
I'll be keeping my 2 speakers and stereo image thank you.
Lin
Lin,
I'm glad you're staying with 2 channel and recognize the stereo image.
Regarding use of the word "stereo", the commonly used term instead is now "audio". Its not we audio/stereophiles that I was referring to, but the overall market, so please don't take offense. Use of terms and sales of HT/MP3 versus 2 channel is obviously moving towards home theater, MP3 variants, and automotive sound, while use of the term audio regardless of how the word "stereophonic" was derived. One of my points was that the population never "got" the whole stereo imaging concept and now that we've moved away from using the word stereo, the idea will be further buried.
Biaural recording/playback in theory would provide the best possible imaging. With all the earbuds/headphones used with MP3 this should be much more popular than it is. Without this technique there is no real image for the earbud/headphone user, so recognition of imaging is lost on a population that were largely unaware of it to start with. And the other popular use of MP3, all those little plug in boom boxes of sorts are too small to image unless you live in a dog house.
In room creation of the 3D image is easier with stereo than with additional channels. I certainly do recognize that if done right more channels (information) would provide a better defined image, but it's too complex and inflexible in nearly all instances. First, the recording studio has more channels to mix into and balance with HT (and if the history of 2 channel is any guide there's little chance of them consistently getting it right with the extra complexity of additional channels). The poor job of studio work alone has caused undetermined confusion in understanding what stereo really is all about. Secondly, for HT to work correctly the speakers must be in proper positional relationship with each other versus stereo that "automatically" would have the 2 speakers side by side*. Most residential rooms do not allow for this strict compliance for HT. This was the downfall of the Klipschorns when stereo was popularized, so if Klipsch had a problem finding two proper adjoining walls, think of the challenges involved trying to appropriately locate 5 - 7 speakers. Thirdly, due to the cost of the additional channels of amplification and speakers, quality typically is badly compromised. The THX standards (a well thought out HT provision) are rarely followed or even known. Fourth, in order to achieve proper listening balance between 2 speakers you need only to sit between them* but for HT you must sit in a single spot. With multiple listeners most, unless a very large room is provided, will invariably get an unpleasant "ear full" of one channel or another. So again the concept of imaging will continue to be lost on most folks.
*Yes, I know about the "sweet spot" and enjoy it greatly myself in "the" chair in my mancave and utilize proper speaker/listening positioning (I follow the Cardas formulas), but proper setup for HT is for the average user unrealistically restrictive. 2 channel can be enjoyed (not optimally) by just having the speakers side by side along one side of the room and sitting somewhere opposite them. You just can't do that with HT. Besides until 3D viewing becomes more prevalent (or we grow eyes on the sides/back of our heads) we are a forward oriented species, so most entertainment will be presented that way and the amount of rear channel information will remain minimal.
My 2cents:
I dont think hifi is repeating history.
There have been very few audiophiles minted since the 70s. Back then, hifi was fashionable. You were single- you had yr car and yr hifi. There were hifi ads in Penthouse and Playboy.
Music is still important to teens and twentysomethings. But hifi is no longer in fashion. Why?
Every non-audiophile who has heard my system pronounces amazement- I never knew music could sound like this. But none have ever called back for advice on how to assemble their own system.
Observations
1: Hi end marketing efforts are directed ONLY to the converted.
2: Hi end retailers (bricks and mortar) are hanging on by a thread
3: Current mass mktg efforts focus on quantity, not quality (ie i pods)
4: The only successful current hifi business models (Magnepan and a few others excepted) involve v high margins
5: Bose has been v effective convincing mass mkt that not so good is plenty good enough.
Conclusion:
When the boomers die off or lose their hearing, the high end will die with them.
Challenge:
Make hifi fashionable again. When visitors see my system- they go wtf- and would never think of having that in their living space. Its not just the money.
HiDef TV has been a huge success. Almost every household has at least one hi def TV. Why not for music???
The general public needs to be educated about fine sound and the enjoyment of music. As a relaxation tool like therapy. The model needs a fix. As drew pointed out back in the day it was the thing to have. There were single Manf. systems displayed in their own stores. Today IMO the system or component or cabling needs to be brought in ones home for an audition.
ZU is thinking out of the box with ZU house parties. VG concept IMO. I tried to create a home audition business where one would pay a fee[ 50 to 75] for the in home demo. If gear is sold no fee. The fee would cover the salespersons out of pocket or traveling expense.
This would enable the Manfs to lower their cost as the distributor and retailer are cut out. Saving 60%. If the salesperson was given just a 10% vig savings would be 50% below normal retail. I bet many more pieces would be sold than the existing method. Besides everyones complaint is "I need to hear it in MY system" would be solved. Then at the end of the year the demo pieces could be sold at big discount and still cover the Manfs costs. No losers all gainers.
Then the so called high end boutiques could concentrate on the 3% who buy that gear. Just like Rolls Royce, Ferrari and the like. That crowd will be around for a while.
My take.
charles