Drove up to Endicott NY and met Bill and picked up the Purity One Custom pre-production unit this past Monday;
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2644.0
I think I now have my basic system altogether, now to begin tube rolling. There is one more issue though, and that is proper speaker placement. I think I'll start a separate thread and include the layout of my home so people can make comments as to what people think well improve my soundstage by speaker placement, but in a nutshell, my house is a McMansion, with all the negative implication of that statement. As a result, my speakers are in a family room that's wide open to both kitchen and kitchen eating area so it's one big rectangle with the speakers firing across the short end from the end of one long wall towards my seating position at the end of the opposite longwall. But back to the preamp.
Bill supplied the Purity One with Sylvainia tubes, as he doesn't care for the sound of the Chinese tubes available today. Right off the bat I noticed two things, the overall sound improved markedly from the sound of my passive preamp, but the resulting sound didn't match the sound of my recent tube preamp shootout. The top end was a little bit thin with the Sylvania tubes. So I pulled them promptly and replaced them with a pair of Raytheon Hammond tubes that Shadowlight had lent me. Now we were getting somewhere.
There was immediate, overall minor improvement in the quality of the sound. The one negative so far was on Joni Mitchell's Hejira album, on some notes especially ones she sustained in the end of a sentence, the tone just wasn't quite right, almost as if she had her mouth partially over the microphone. I think if she'd been a male singer this would be the quality people speak of when they talk about a singer coming across as chesty. Outside of that, there's really nothing negative I can say about the overall sound or presentation.
More to come as I roll in different tubes.
Just reread post to correct spelling, realize the discussing on soundstage may invite posts concerning speaker placement in this thread - please dont - I'll create a seperate thread for that.
After I return Deepaks Hammonds this Saturday, I have a variety of RCA blackplates, greyplates and cleartops to try. Also some Amperex Bugleboys, and a matched pair of Telefunkens.
I see there is a pair of Amperex D-getter longplates relabled as Rodgers on Agon for $125. these are fine sounding tubes and very cheap at this price :drool:
Gene,
Try the rca black plates. That is what was installed in the Bella pre.
Hello
I own a max bella/14B combo. I can heartily recommend a full out assault on power cables with these response audio pre's. I have a gutwire powerclef/2 that i used to dedicate to my 14B. I was getting a little too much toob rush with that pre in my system. I moved that Gutwire to the Max bella. Its a huge cord(10gauge at least) that has an adjustable jacket ground that you can fix back onto the component. This reduced the noise out of my pre greatly and changed the presentation, it gave it a lot more depth and wrap around. Bigger the better imo with these preamps for power cord gauge i am finding.
I agree Werd, I have 3 or 4 meter length of DH Labs Power Plus cord, just have to terminate it.
Rolled in the RCA 5963 long grey plates '50s I got from hometheaterdoc, fixed the issue with how Joni Mitchell sounded. But, while listening to Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad, I thought the bass was a little too phat. But then, Fagen usually has a strong and pronounced bass track in his work it may just be the RCAs allowing the Purity to show me what's truly there. I'd like to put on Morph The Cat, but I'm afraid to.
Listening to Getz/Gilberto, it's delightful.
Quote from: etcarroll on December 12, 2010, 04:20:54 PM
Rolled in the RCA 5963 long grey plates '50s I got from hometheaterdoc, fixed the issue with how Joni Mitchell sounded. But, while listening to Donald Fagen's Kamakiriad, I thought the bass was a little too phat. But then, Fagen usually has a strong and pronounced bass track in his work it may just be the RCAs allowing the Purity to show me what's truly there. I'd like to put on Morph The Cat, but I'm afraid to.
Listening to Getz/Gilberto, it's delightful.
This is really kind of weird. My son upgraded his Paradigms today (from the Mini-Monitors to the Phantoms), and as I am writing this he is road testing them with guess what, Morph the Cat. :lol:
I really appreciate al the continued feedback on tubes and cables. For the record, I use a VH Audio AIRSINE power cord on my Purity preamps and amplifiers. Like tubes, the Purity will show you the truth with cabling as well. Especially interconnect cables (Gene, your Harvest II's will be done shortly).
This weekend I swapped in some custom Silver/Gold foil interconnects and a pair of Silver/Gold balanced interconnects. Big difference over the copper Harvest II. Soon as our new mono blocs are up and running, I will swap speaker cables over to our SG Series (Silver/Gold) foil cables. These are only 4 footers so I need mono blocs to use them. Right now, I am running a pair of Harvest II speaker cable.
By the way, yes I do like silver :drool: The downfall [can] be that it brings out the truth in your system so if there is a bottleneck anywhere, you will know. I wonder if Jim Salk would let me rewire the HT2-TL speakers in all solid silver wire :drool:
I had an opportunity during RMAF to listen to Bill's Pre and I have to say it's an excellent unit.
Bill really knows his stuff.
hi Hugh, welcome aboard at AN.
And yes Bill does, I'm on some RCA greyplates, and as Bill says, the Purity shows the unique characteristics of each tube type. So far these sound great, yet I still have RCA blackplates and cleartops, Amperex Bugle Boys from '64, and some Telefunkens. I'm getting held up a bit as I'm wrestling with my vinyl presentation. But I don't feel like I'm losing out 'only' having the greyplates in Bill's creation.
Hi G,
Thanks.
According to what I've been reading thus far from other places, the new Shuguang Pavane supposes to be good too.
I got no personal experience on those yet though.
Quote from: etcarroll on December 14, 2010, 06:32:21 PM
hi Hugh, welcome aboard at AN.
And yes Bill does, I'm on some RCA greyplates, and as Bill says, the Purity shows the unique characteristics of each tube type. So far these sound great, yet I still have RCA blackplates and cleartops, Amperex Bugle Boys from '64, and some Telefunkens. I'm getting held up a bit as I'm wrestling with my vinyl presentation. But I don't feel like I'm losing out 'only' having the greyplates in Bill's creation.
According to what I've been reading thus far from other places, the new Shuguang Pavane supposes to be good too.
I heard the Pavane 12AU7 briefly when another member brought them up to the shop. Unfortunately, there were not completely broken in. They did seem to have potential but at their price, there are a lot of great NOS pieces waiting to be grabbed up.
Quote from: Response Audio on December 15, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
According to what I've been reading thus far from other places, the new Shuguang Pavane supposes to be good too.
I heard the Pavane 12AU7 briefly when another member brought them up to the shop. Unfortunately, there were not completely broken in. They did seem to have potential but at their price, there are a lot of great NOS pieces waiting to be grabbed up.
But it is nice to know that somebody is starting to figure out how to get good sound out of new production tubes. :D Because there is only so much NOS stuff out there and someday we are going to simply run out. :(
QuoteBecause there is only so much NOS stuff out there and someday we are going to simply run out.
I think the largest market for NOS Tubes is for guitar amps! Those guys are willing to shell out big bucks and their amps tend to suck tubes, according to my neighbor!
Just think there are probably some stashes of old tubes from TV Repairmen, from years gone by, sitting in a garage or basement and the wife or family have no idea of their value!
Ken
ET, I know you know what your doing. But but please leave each tube set in at least three days before trying another set. Listen to music you have NOT listened to in a long time that was once a favorite.
It takes about three days for all to settle in again. For me any new tube takes 100 hours to tell its true singnature. don't rush through this experiment. Been there done that and missed the proper selection, until latter.
I have no experience with the Purity One. With an emphasis on clarity and detail maybe a tube that offers some weight and or body would be the ticket. RCA [ non cleartops], Mullard or Tele. Happy rolling.
Best advice take your time don't rush. I believe the preamp has the most influence in ones system.
charles
Thanks Charles.
In fact, last night I pulled the greyplates and went with RCA NOS blackplates I purchased from another AN member.
I'd been struggling with my vinyl presentation, and finally reinserted my SUT, a Denon AU-310 as old as my Denon tt, and immediately the fullness returned to the sound. But the highs were thin, trumpet on a Jazz album I was spinning was off, and violin in a classical album was also thin and a little scratchy at the top. I'm sure my phono pre is also at fault, an inexpensive TEC TC-760LC. Eleazar has offered to bring down his Rogue phono pre for me to try, I hope that will lend clarity to what my next step is for vinyl.
Meanwhile, I'll leave the blackplates in till after the holidays.
I would like to add some of my tube rolling findings with my Purity One. These are basically a comparison of the the Pavane 12AU7 against RCA Cleartop, CBS Hytron 5814WA
Music selection
Herbie Hancock, The Jonie Mitchell Letters
Herbie Hancock, Possibilities
I have found the Pavane 12AU7 to be a VERY quiet and dynamic tube. The music just leaps out from a black ground and loads the room more and appears louder than the NOS tubes for a given volume setting. Sound stage is wide, but not very deep. There does appear to be a high mid to lower treble bump that emphasizes vocals, but loses something in the translation. It was good, but not up to the standard set by the 5814 or Cleartop. The female voice had a little raspiness the others did not. An example of this is Corrine Bailey Rae on the River track. There was flatness in her presentation with the Pavane that is more well done in the NOS offerings. It is a "you have to hear, to get it" thing. Macro detail is very good, while the micro detail is not presented on the same high level. In the end, a very good tube.
The RCA Cleartop was very even across the board, with no area being emphasized at the expense of another. Sound stage with was just a bit less than the Pavane, but depth was better. The image filled the room, but did nit load it like the Pavane. The noise floor was not as low as Pavane, it was quiet, but not jet black. Micro detail was better here than in the Pavane, but was not nearly as dynamic. Vocals here were excellent. The emotion of the performance was well presented. There was more reality to the voice, and instruments were more cleanly defined in space, than in the Pavane. You could see CBR smiling during the vocals on the River track, and the raspiness was not present in Cleartop.
The 5814 was to me the best of the bunch. Soundstage depth was the best of the bunch, and width about the same as the Cleartop. The 5814 was not as warm as the Cleartop, but the emotion of the presentation was still well presented. Images were just better defined than the other offerings. I liked these tubes the best out of the three. The wife like the Pavane,
All three of these are very good tubes, and a lot better than the stock JJ that came with the unit.
I have a pair of Seimens 12AU7 Nickel plates with 1962 date codes which are very nice and very rare.i bought mine last year from www.audiotubes.com for $150.00 for the pair when he had a dozen pairs or so. Brent Jesse has one matched pair left for $200.00. these are one of the top of the heap 12AU7 variations. these are one of the most neutral tubes of this type made.if your system is bright these wont work well at all and if you want them warm up the sound it wont happen with these tubes.I had a pair of circa 1955 CBS/Hytron 5814 that i lost in a house fire that were excellent in the Candela and if you can find a pair you should check them out.
10 hours on the blackplates, sound is piss poor, hope this stage doesn't last long.
Quote from: etcarroll on December 20, 2010, 06:33:54 PM
10 hours on the blackplates, sound is piss poor, hope this stage doesn't last long.
I hate when that happens. Is anyone home during the day? If not you can just hook up your tuner or put a CD on repeat and let it play all day while you're at work.
Come to think about it, these are preamp tubes we are talking about burning in, so even if somebody is home couldn't you just play something through the preamp with the power amp turned off and get the break-in time without the noise?
Quote from: etcarroll on December 20, 2010, 06:33:54 PM
10 hours on the blackplates, sound is piss poor, hope this stage doesn't last long.
It's always hard to interpret when Gene likes something or not ....
Love you too Jack! :roll:
Hooked up Duet, put it on random play and will just let it go for a few days.
Quote from: etcarroll on December 20, 2010, 06:33:54 PM
10 hours on the blackplates, sound is piss poor, hope this stage doesn't last long.
100 hours. Be patient. Then play a CD that you listened to a lot but not in a long time. That will tell ya a thingie or two.
One more thing if you have a Demag disc use it. I bet your system from switching stuff has built up some magnetism. You gonna be a happy camper.
charles
Thanks for the encouragement Rollo, have had Duet running non-stop last few days, maybe 70 hours on the new tubes. Just took a break from holiday chores to listen to Kind of Blue a little, much improved!
Oh, and I have RCA 5963, 17mm long BLACK PLATE with D GETTERs from ebay, not the Blackplates I bought from another AN member.
And now, back to chores.
PS:
Looking forward to your thoughts on the Beacon Two, wish I could A/B it against the Purity One.
Quote from: etcarroll on December 18, 2010, 10:02:24 AM
Thanks Charles.
In fact, last night I pulled the greyplates and went with RCA NOS blackplates I purchased from another AN member.
I'd been struggling with my vinyl presentation, and finally reinserted my SUT, a Denon AU-310 as old as my Denon tt, and immediately the fullness returned to the sound. But the highs were thin, trumpet on a Jazz album I was spinning was off, and violin in a classical album was also thin and a little scratchy at the top. I'm sure my phono pre is also at fault, an inexpensive TEC TC-760LC. Eleazar has offered to bring down his Rogue phono pre for me to try, I hope that will lend clarity to what my next step is for vinyl.
Meanwhile, I'll leave the blackplates in till after the holidays.
I had a Denon SUT and found similiar results with a thin top end. Is not the Denon SUT loaded at 200 omhs ? Are you using a MM or MC cart ? Loading is key to great LP sound.
charles
Some specs for the AU-310;
Primary impedance: 40 ohm
Secondary impedance: 4 kohm
Load impedance: 50 kohm or more
Step up ratio 1:10
Using an Ortofon MC25E, a MC unit with under 50 hours on it.
What is a SUT?
Quote from: richidoo on December 26, 2010, 04:47:55 PM
What is a SUT?
Step Up Transformer, used to step up the output of moving coil cartridges.
Thanks Mike. That makes sense...
Question - What do 'microphonic' tubes sound like?
Went to Boston for New Years, and with the words of Obi Wan Rollo in my head, not only did I power down everything, put also pulled all power plugs from wall.
On return, plugged it all back in, powered up all except amp to allow warm-up, then powered up amp. For first hour or two, all kind of audio crap and sonic hash, humming like a vacumn in the distance behind my speakers, 'scratchy' finish to notes, if it was an lp I'd of been looking for dust under the stylus, and a hum that shows up and slowly increases in volume necessitating a 'reboot' of amp to clear it. After 2 days the system seems to be returned to normal, but now, as a toob noob, I have the question I started this post with, wondering if that's my problem?
Edit: None of this was occurring prior to 2 day power down.
Meanwhile, right now listening to Miles' "Cookin'", and with just over 100 hours on the blackplates, it sounds great. But.............
I'd hate to think I put 100 hours into tube break in only to realize these tubes may have a problem, I guess that's my real concern.
:shock: Does the weird sound come from both channels ? If not reverse tube if you can or take it out and try another. If the noise does not go away it is the tube. Have you had this issue again ? I know this is a dumb question but anyway . When you powered down was it the amp, then Pre then source? Power on was source, pre, amp ? Just curious.
Tubes can fail at turn on, however sometimes they are just settling. Was the tube seated properly ? the shutdown and turn on should not harm a thing as it is a normal function :duh. If the tube didn't start glowing or turn blue, orange and blow your good to go.
Reboot the amp to clear a hum ? Got me there. Esplain. :?
charles
etcarroll,
I have experienced the same thing. At around 100 hours, and around 200 - 300 hours. Around 100 hours on one set of tubes(NOS), really bad hum, on another set really bad crackle, pop and hiss(new). These are now pretty much unusable. On another set of tubes, around 200 hours, after being on around 4 - 5 hours an intermittent SHHHH sound. The SHHHH does not occur at turn on, only after being on for a while.
What's up with that? It is the high end... :duh
This stuff doesn't happen to my cheap receiver [-o<
Good advice from Charles... Also I assume you power everything down everyday but don't get this reaction normally. You don't normally unplug everything either.
Could it be a static charge built up while not plugged in, causing caps or wires to malform? It is winter and snowy, so static risk is at a peak from dry air. You may need a humidifier. The increasing hum and reboot have me thinking along those lines of static build up, especially with the reboot fixing the hum immediately, but I can't think of an actual mechanism. A Brickwall (http://brickwall.thomasnet.com/) filter will allow you to leave it all plugged in and grounded while you're away which would help the problem if it is static related, by keeping everything grounded. I doubt it is the tubes themselves, especially if it is coming from both channels equally. I wouldn't assume it is the new preamp until you do some testing. If it happens again, take the time to determine which component is causing it by process of elimination. You can run the power amp with with a DIY shorted RCA plug to mute the input, or if you know the amp and are careful, without a mute is OK, but there is some risk. Make a shorting plug with an old junk RCA cable, cut off the plugs along with 6" of wire, strip the wire and twist the conductors together, then optionally solder them if you can. A static shock on the input of an unmuted amp could hurt your speakers. Then if the amp is quiet add the preamp, then add sources, listening for the noise. Don't forget wires. They sit on the carpet and are subject to static issues too. If you hear the noise after adding a component, swap the wires to make sure it is not them. When you isolate the noise, report back with all the details. Maybe we can figure something out... Glad it healed itself in time.
Quote from: richidoo on January 04, 2011, 08:43:55 AM
Good advice from Charles... Also I assume you power everything down everyday but don't get this reaction normally. You don't normally unplug everything either.
Correct, power all down at bedtime, but as a rule don't unplug from the wall. Only tried it this time as at last NYAR meeting Rollo thought I might realise improvement in sound if I unplugged system to allow static to discharge. And I do have static, especially since putting on heat for Winter.
Obi Wan - bad sound from both channels - check. So I don't see need to swap tubes. I hadn't thought about seating, next time I shut down I'll pull and reseat both tubes.
Reboot - as a software designer I spend all day in front of Wintel computers, they get hinky from time to time, and my 1st troubleshooting step is to shut the damn thing off, count to 5, turn back on, cures over 90% of the issues. That's so ingrained in me that when hum began to escalate, I punched the amp power button w/o even thinking of why I was doing it. Counted to 5, power on, hum gone. It did it this morning on initial system power up, but you know what, the pre amp may not have had a chance to power up/warm up/settle in before I 1st powered the amp, and while rebooting the amp and counting to 5 that gave the pre the extra time it needed.
Regardless, it's playing fine now.
mdfoy - I know...... right. My 25 year old Carver receiver with the bent speaker posts doesn't give me this kind of concern, just once and awhile I have to reach behind it and wiggle the speaker post to re-establish the connection.
Any tube preamp needs a period of time to get up to temp before it sends signal to the amp. Because tubes depend on heat to conduct, and heat transfer in all the metal parts of the tube and transformers is not balanced throughout the startup, there is all kind of holy hell lurking before it reaches stable temp and voltages. Most preamps have a timed relay to prevent any signal from getting out too soon, usually 30-90 seconds. Before then hum, DC and plenty of noise would come out the back without an auto muting function. Even after the relay opens there can still be DC offset that would upset some sensitive SS amps. For kicks, you might want to check out the manual just to see how long you should wait to turn on the amp, if at all. What kind of amp do you have Gene?
Rich
Holy Hell, that's what I yelled as junk came out the speakers. :rofl:
No manual, I bought Bill's pre-production unit, but I'll followup with him concerning that.
A 29 year old Bryston 4B that I sent back to Bryston early last summer to be upgraded/recapped.
Amp plugged direct into wall outlet, everything else into PS Audio Quintet, which goes into same outlet as amp.
And the outlet is a Leviton Hospital grade unit.
Sorry I have been out of the loop for a while. I was just notified about the current discussion in this thread. Maybe I can be of some help here.
As far as warm up goes, tube preamps need about a minute to come to temp before turning on the power amp(s). It is a bit less but to be on the safe side, give it a minute.
You never want to turn you amp on immediately after turning on a tube preamp. A general rule of thumb is: sources first (wait 30-60 seconds if tubes are involved), preamp (give it a minute) and then amp(s). Wait about a minute after powering up the complete system to start playing music.
I am wondering if some of the noise mentioned here is not a static build up as richidoo mentioned. I have has this happen to me a few times and "rebooting" the system always took care of it. With winter here and the heating system on, the air is quite dry and I am experiencing this more regularly. If you have cables running along the floor, the pick up and deliver static to the components. I can think of no other reason for a component or system to develop noise after being on for so long with no issues.
I will have manuals available on line very soon for all of our products as well as a general manual for system setup and powering sequence.
By the way etcarroll, your Harvest II interconnects left yesterday via Priority Mail. :thumb:
Spoke too soon about 'all is well', just sat down to listen to system while taking a break from updating my resume, (why is it so painfull, and time consuming to write about myself), and realized a noise had returned. Not as bad as the vacumn cleaner motor I heard earlier, more muted, but there and steady. Killed CDP, and quickly realized the sound only in right speaker.
Swapped tubes, sound now in left speaker. Does this mean tube goes in the trash?
Oh well, was looking for a reason to put in the Siemens tubes Shadowlight lent me.
Quote from: Response Audio on January 04, 2011, 12:24:28 PM
By the way etcarroll, your Harvest II interconnects left yesterday via Priority Mail. :thumb:
That's great Bill, looking forward to replacing the LAT ic presently in place between pre and amp to see what the result is.
Yup, tubes in pre need replacement... Sometimes they will be flakey on and off when they are dying. But the hum and stuff was from turning on the amp too soon before the preamp was warmed up. Bryston can take it no problem, as can most amps with a cap or transformer on their input to stop the DC.
Hi etcarrol
i know what you are talking about. What worked for me was my gutwire powerclef/2. I mentioned this earlier.
That power cord on that pre made it quiet. I had it pretty much permanent assignment on my 14B(so i thought). Its as quiet now as my old bp25 and that was solid state. I did everything i could think of with moving stuff around and plugging in and out. I even changed out tubes to no avail. Here is the link. Check out the discontinued products and look at it. It has a ground that you can attach back on to the chassis. Its a good power cord for that pre. Its always hard to say how it will work for you but its something you can consider.
http://www.gutwire.com/power.htm
Thanks for the gutwire tip.
Actually, I have a length of DH Labs Power Plus Reference Series Power Cord I want to use, just waiting for the appropriate Wattgate terminators to come up on sale.
etcarroll,
Swapped tubes, sound now in left speaker. Does this mean tube goes in the trash?
Oh well, was looking for a reason to put in the Siemens tubes Shadowlight lent me
Don't you hate when that happens. And it ALWAYS happens to the tubes you like :wtf: I have swapped out Telefunken( really liked,really liked, and may look for another pair), Tung-Sol(really liked, and may look for another pair), JJ gold pins, RCA Cleartop, CBS/Hytron really liked, and got another quad), all because they had issues around 100-200 hours. Old tubes, new tubes, it doesn't matter.
The saving grace is that they all sound SOOOO good :drool: when working, and well worth the angst. The Purity is all that :thumb:
Raytheon Blackplates(thanks Bill for the recommendation) are going strong [-o<.
Quote from: mdfoy on January 04, 2011, 04:23:48 PM
all because they had issues around 100-200 hours. Old tubes, new tubes, it doesn't matter.
The saving grace is that they all sound SOOOO good :drool: when working, and well worth the angst. The Purity is all that :thumb:
Geez, 100 hours???? You're bumming me out!
I have a pr. of Teles I'm working up to, plus 1964 era Amperex Bugle Boys, I hope I get a lot more use than 100-200 hours out of them! :x
JJs are notoriously noisy tubes due to quality issues lately. But if you find some quiet ones, they can be very sweet if you like clear open sound without stridency. Some good mfgs swear by them. Tube designer Stuart Yaniger (SY on other forums) measured their 12AT7 against all comers new or old and found it to be the lowest distortion of all. I used it in my Snapper with great joy until it started farting. Letting it rest for a few months would restore it to health. :duh Love em, hate em. New Sensor brand new issue tubes like ElectroHarmonix, Sovtek, Genelex, TungSol, Mullard,etc are very reliable, but the cheaper ones like Sovtek can sound a bit rough compared to the classics. As for vintage, buying on ebay or anything used you just never really know what you're getting. It can test strong then crap after a year. There's probably a good reason a 50 year old tube is still hanging around. Either it's on last legs, or was a reject. Buy from a reputable tube seller that will stand by them and you're safe.
In Purity Basis, is it a separate tube per channel, or the triodes of each tube split across two channels?
Don't get too bummed out. Not all tubes are bad. I read somewhere, I think on AudioCircle about tube breakdown times. IIRC, tubes may generally break down at turn on, 100 hours, 1000 hours or something to that effect. I have found that around 100 - 200, if issues are going to occur, they do. I also have tubes that have not run into issues. In fact, the stock JJs are cool. I guess it was just a run on bad luck.
Well, that's better I suppose. :?
To conclude for today, rather than go to the Siemens tubes just yet, I pulled the bad RCA blackplate and put another in it's place, it's a group of 5, now 4, I got from ebay. I really wanted to get the 100 hours on them as last month I had the Beacon Two that Rollo is now auditioning in house, and Shadowlight came down with his Bella Max with 12au7 RCA Blackplates. I really liked the Beacon sound, but everyone else in my mini-GTG gave the Bella the slight nod over the Beacon, then Bill made me a good deal on this pre-production unit.
So, I need to get 100 hours minimum on the blackplates to see if I truly made the right decision.
Quote from: Response Audio on January 04, 2011, 12:24:28 PM
By the way etcarroll, your Harvest II interconnects left yesterday via Priority Mail. :thumb:
Got 'em! :thumb:
You know what, I've heard these before, on the spring cable tour you ran on AC, I really liked them, psyched to have my own set. Now, to burn them in.
Edit: Put 'em between SACD and Purity One for initial burn in.
Hey Gene,
Another thing to consider is that when doing so much tube rolling, the pins in the tube sockets could start to loosen up a bit which could be causing some of your problems as well. In my Purity Reference, I have had the same set of tubes, Baldwin, for about 350-400 hours with not a single issue.
My original Purity One had about 600 hours on these same Baldwin tubes before I moved them over to the Reference. So we are close to 1000 hours and still going strong.
Just something to think about.
Keep me posted on how the Harvest II cables are doing as you put some time on them.
How does one deal with 'loose socket pins'?
Quote from: etcarroll on January 06, 2011, 01:01:32 PM
Dvorák Cello Concerto in B minor, Op. 104; Bruch Kol Nidrei; Tchaikovsky Variations on a Rococo Theme / Dorati, Starker, London Symphony Orchestra [Hybrid SACD - DSD]
Some tweaks to the pre, what's this I'm hearing..................
Why, it's sonic goodness.
What tweaks? Did not not to clutter up the listening thread.
No problem D, was going to post here once the Dvorak SACD was done.
Today I picked up a secondary audio rack for the overflow from my Cambre rack. The Purity One has been precariously perched on a pine end table so I could have ready access for tube rolling, it will go into the Cambre once I'm settled on tubes. For now it's moved onto top shelf of new rack.
But today, while setting up the secondary rack I used the time to install Herbie's tube dampers on the blackplates, plus a better PC, a PS Audio item, and vibrapods.
Also straightened out the rats nest of cords behind the Cambre rack.
Last, put a ferrite core on the pre's PC as some hiss during quiet passages when you put ear to speaker.
Then put a SACD on to play with the Sherwood, which got the Harvest II ICs yesterday, which I ran all night to begin burn in.
From last night to today, post changes, I hear the music as more focused and precise, the sound-floor has dropped a little and there is a noticeable reduction in distortion.
Can't say what exactly contributed to this improvement the most, but I'm pleased it's happened.
Quote from: shadowlight on January 14, 2011, 02:09:21 PM
Quote from: etcarroll on January 14, 2011, 01:21:03 PM
Just pulled my RCA Blackplates and put in the SIEMENS CV491-12AU7-ECC802/S-K1007 you lent me. Right off the bat struck by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large even with solo piano. The midrange seems ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. Of course I'm listening to Beethoven's 4th and 5th Concertos over and over, and Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition
Original Version & Orchestration by Vladimir Ashkenazy with Vladimir Ashkenazy playing solo on Piano.
Kind of seems I'm playing music the Siemens would hit out of the park. We'll see how they compare to the blackplates when I roll up to some jazz CDs, and the new Kings of Leon should be a good test as well.
That was my impression also with the Siemens.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the Siemens were made by Mullard according to the seller and confirmed using one of the link that Rich provided earlier (http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm).
Swapped PCs, now running a BPT 6' C-9 power cord composed of 9 AWG high current, shielded design using custom manufactured, finely stranded Oxygen Free Copper wire.
Edit: First take is - it darkens the sound a little. Guess I'll let things run in the background for a bit while the PC settles into system.
Hold on Buckaroo. When your riding a new horse don't change the saddle too. One change at a time. Until you get the feel of the new horse say 100 hours then try other saddles.
Its the old Nervosa reaction. What if ? I changed... repeat after me " I will not change two things at once" .
A suggestion if not already doing so is to use one CD played for no more than 30 seconds. get to know that 30 seconds of music real well. Then make the change. listen again and again. Now a reference point is established and any change in sonics provided by the change can be picked up on more readily. It is a process that is consistent and very telling. Have fun.
charles
Quote from: rollo on January 21, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Hold on Buckaroo. When your riding a new horse don't change the saddle too. One change at a time. Until you get the feel of the new horse say 100 hours then try other saddles.
Its the old Nervosa reaction. What if ? I changed... repeat after me " I will not change two things at once" .
A suggestion if not already doing so is to use one CD played for no more than 30 seconds. get to know that 30 seconds of music real well. Then make the change. listen again and again. Now a reference point is established and any change in sonics provided by the change can be picked up on more readily. It is a process that is consistent and very telling. Have fun.
charles
In any scientific experiment or math problem the goal is always to isolate things down to one single variable. (Excuse me, I have to go look for my plastic pocket protector.)
(http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/design/10420426/type/png/width/190/height/190/nerd-smiley_design.png)
You guys are too funny, you're killing me.
But it makes sense.
Quote from: etcarroll on January 21, 2011, 08:55:00 AM
You guys are too funny, you're killing me.
But it makes sense.
Oh oh don't forget the miners hat with that light on it. It tis the golden rule of tweakdom. KISS baby.
charles
Good point Charles.
All,
A little write up on my finding with the CBS/Hytron 5814 in the my Purity One. These have turned out to be a most excellent choice. The sound stage is wide and deep. With other tubes, on most recordings, the soundstage is behind the speakers, with the Hytron, a get an in front of the speaker effect. I have only gotten this from a set of NOS Tung-Sol 12AU7(nice tubes that crapped out around 100 or so hours :cry:) An example of this is Sister Moon on Herbie Hancock, Possibilities. Percussion effects are clearly in front of the right speaker. Bass has depth and most importantly, accuracy. Please note, my speakers are stand mount Salk HT1s, so bass is not subterranean, but it is good. Midrange on the Hytrons is very good, vocals are clear and inflection is very nice. Piano is done very well. I was playing Keith Jarret - La Scala, and guests thought a real piano was playing in the living room over the holidays.
Next up is a pair of tests new, Raytheon Blackplate 12AU7, Baldwin organ stock. These are on the way from tctubes. I have a set of weak ones that sound pretty good, let's see how a "good" set stacks up.
I now know why Bill likes the Raytheon Blackplate 12AU7, Baldwin organ stock so much.
Got 100 hours on the Siemens tubes Shadowlight lent me, just plugged in a pr. of 1967 Amperex Orange Globes, already find the mids much richer. Of course all I've heard so far is Ella Fitzgerald's voice and now a string quartet, but the Amperex seem to have been created to showcase the female voice and the 'wood' of the instruments.
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-String-Quartet-Grosse-Fuge/dp/B000003D1P/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1297356906&sr=1-5
I have a quartet of Mullards on the way from Germany, once I've put 100 hrs. on the Amperex, then 100 on the Mullards - and then I'll begin the A-B of the top 5 or 6 tubes to see which is my favorite.
Quote from: mdfoy on February 02, 2011, 02:58:10 PM
I now know why Bill likes the Raytheon Blackplate 12AU7, Baldwin organ stock so much.
Yup, they're nice, but keep rolling, Bill's handiwork will highlight the differences between tubes.
etcarroll,
Which one do you like most so far? I am wondering about some of that Euro flavor.
Can't really say, these are only the 2nd Euro tubes I've put in. I still have to get 100 hours on Mullards and Telefunkens, plus I have a pr. of '64 Bugle Boys I want to break in.
Still, I really like these Amperex Orange Globes, maybe it's just the recency effect, I dunno, but they sound great. Listening to Clark Terry on trumpet and flugelhorn, and it's sweet.
QuoteI now know why Bill likes the Raytheon Blackplate 12AU7, Baldwin organ stock so much
And I accidently sent my pair out with a Purity Reference to a reviewer :duh
Guess it's back to my box of NOS 12AU7's to see what else I can come up with. I think I have another pair in there somewhere :roll:
So I put some Mullards in, and I'm thinking these may be it. They have 50+ hours in the pre, and today I was cleaning jazz albums I bought, with one of them playing, The Avant-Garde, and twice I had to shut down the VPI and re-queue what had just played and sit down and listen to it. The sparkle in the top end was like nothing I'd heard to date.
I still have a pair of Bugle Boys, and ribbed plate Telefunkens to audition, but they'll have to be REALLY SPECIAL to knock off these Mullards.
if you can find a pair to try of the Amperex Holland longplate D getter 12AU7 bugle boys or PQ's or the Amperex Holland 7316 longplate D getter 12AU7 varient depending on your system i think you may prefer them to any other 12AU7 out there. these tubes were made from the mid 50's with a few still being made in early 1962. D getters are awesome tubes that are very balanced in the highs,mids and lows and have a beautiful sparkle on the top end
Finally got around to the ribbed Teles, have had them on in background for 50 hours playing Pandora.
Just put on DSOTM SACD, oh, oh, the Mullards may be in trouble.
Deep, rich voicing, great soundstage, excellent decay on all the bells and other sound effects - I'd have to say PRAT is best to date.
Have to go to gym, then come back and try vinyl.
Can't wait, I'm giddy as a school girl on 1st date! :)
Quote from: etcarroll on February 21, 2011, 07:52:22 PM
So I put some Mullards in, and I'm thinking these may be it. They have 50+ hours in the pre, and today I was cleaning jazz albums I bought, with one of them playing, The Avant-Garde, and twice I had to shut down the VPI and re-queue what had just played and sit down and listen to it. The sparkle in the top end was like nothing I'd heard to date.
I still have a pair of Bugle Boys, and ribbed plate Telefunkens to audition, but they'll have to be REALLY SPECIAL to knock off these Mullards.
The Gym :rofl:
Dude - why are you clubbing me?!?
I work out..........
.....sorta
..... kinda
...... sometimes.
Quote from: etcarroll on September 24, 2011, 12:06:11 PM
Dude - why are you clubbing me?!?
I work out..........
.....sorta
..... kinda
...... sometimes.
I just started a new exercise program. Get off ass and flip record to other side. Haven't worked out like that since the 80's :thumb:
Wait till you get some 45rpm titles, you'll feel like a jack in the box you'll be jumping up so much.
Come on Gene, us TT guys get alot of exercise. Not only am I getting up to flip the album sides but I switched to heavy vinyl to get a better workout. :rofl:
Okay, no more vinyl talk. I lost all my vinyl in the flood and it is far too depressing to hear about people talking about their vinyl :cry:
Quote from: Response Audio on September 30, 2011, 02:10:40 PM
Okay, no more vinyl talk. I lost all my vinyl in the flood and it is far too depressing to hear about people talking about their vinyl :cry:
Bill I realize all the covers would be ruined, but couldn't you clean the vinyl on an RCM and buy plains cardboard jackets to store them in ?
QuoteBill I realize all the covers would be ruined, but couldn't you clean the vinyl on an RCM and buy plains cardboard jackets to store them in ?
That was my first thought but the water was so muddy, full of chimicals (fuel oil, gasoline, diesel fuel and who knows what elase) and moving so fast throughout my store that it actually ruined the vinyl. There were a few amplifiers where the fast moving water (Class 3 whirlpools according to the fast water rescue team) literally acted like a sandblaster and removed paint.
On most albums, I could not even seperate the paper from the vinyl. Believe me, it was heartbreaking. :(
That's a terrible story. :(
If it's any consolation, I hear a little 'tube rush' with the Teles.
So I'm only 99% digging the vinyl.
QuoteIf it's any consolation, I hear a little 'tube rush' with the Teles.
So I'm only 99% digging the vinyl.
Nope, no consolation :roll:
Got a pr., gonna roll them in.
The Teles I put in may be unbalanced, right channel always seems to want to be heard more since they went in.
Bill on the way to have a listen, gonna start warming up some Amperex Bugle Boy 15mm greyplates w/ribs.
Quote from: Bunky on March 09, 2011, 03:44:49 AM
if you can find a pair to try of the Amperex Holland longplate D getter 12AU7 bugle boys or PQ's or the Amperex Holland 7316 longplate D getter 12AU7 varient depending on your system i think you may prefer them to any other 12AU7 out there. these tubes were made from the mid 50's with a few still being made in early 1962. D getters are awesome tubes that are very balanced in the highs,mids and lows and have a beautiful sparkle on the top end
Oh happy day!!!!!!!!!! :D
I guess the Teles just needed to be reseated, as I rolled through the Bugle Boys, then the Teles, then the Mullards I liked so much so Bill could hear the difference. He liked the Teles so I put them back in, and realized the stage was 'centered' again. Yay!!!
Guess they just needed to be reseated.
Hey Guys,
I have a new Purity One with Sylvania tubes and am really finding it lacking in resolution, detail, and soundstage. I have read this thread a few times, but was hoping that you guys would all chime in with your favorite tube choice, especially those that will bring a much larger soundstage and much more detail, as those are the qualities that seem to be lacking with the Sylvanias.
If you could also recommend a source for your tube that would be great too, unless someone is willing to part with a nice pair:). I originally put the Pre up for sale after first hearing it, but am reconsidering it now as maybe I should put a little effort in tube rolling before I give up.
Thanks so much,
Morgan
So on the advice of a wise Satfrat, I thought I would list my system:
Decware Torii amp
Tekton Pendragons Speakers
Tranquility SE DAC
Mac Mini Server
Thanks:)
Morgan,
You might want to take a look at the following thread about 12au7 tube recommendation.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=725.60
I got my Teles from Greengirl on ebay, that thread just got resurrected for some reason;
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3034.msg48664;topicseen#msg48664
Thanks guys. Those are all very helpful and I found many of the tubes talked about on those threads.
I did find a pair of Amperex in the closet and replaced the Sylvanias, and now I am taking the Purity One off the market! Let's just say, huge upgrade :thumb:.
I still would love to hear everyone's all time favorite and best bang for the buck tubes. Of course system synergy is key, but these recommendations are a good starting point, so thanks.
Quote from: Morganc on February 05, 2012, 04:02:11 PM
Thanks guys. Those are all very helpful and I found many of the tubes talked about on those threads.
I did find a pair of Amperex in the closet and replaced the Sylvanias, and now I am taking the Purity One off the market! Let's just say, huge upgrade :thumb:.
I still would love to hear everyone's all time favorite and best bang for the buck tubes. Of course system synergy is key, but these recommendations are a good starting point, so thanks.
Just noticed that these are the same orange globe Amperex that etcarroll enjoyed a few pages back....I would love to hear a comparison between these orange globes and others that you enjoy.
Hello Morganc
Ad to hear your are keeping the Purity. Just curious, what piece do you have?
You are absolutely right about system synergy and choosing tubes to meet you taste and synergy with the system. Sometimes we need a little tone to warm things up and other times we need something a bit more 'direct' to bring to life an otherwise overly warm, bloomy system.
As you and many other have noticed, the Purity preamps will show any subtle changes in the system from the subtlties of tubes and cables to major changes such as different components.
Do keep us up to date on how the system comes together over time. It is my opinion that a system as a whole needs to break in untouched for about 30 days to realize its fullest potential.
Hi Bill,
I have the Purity One that you made in a Bubinga/Bella Case for the gentleman who also bought your reference amps in SoCal. It has the V Cap upgrade and is starting to open up with the Orange Globe Amperex 12AU7's. It now has really tight bass, a nice soundstage and is more open and detailed on the top end.
My system now has the following characteristics:
1. Decware Amp: tonally acurate, neutral, detailed, great dynamics
2. Tekton Pendragons: On the warm side of neutral. Very dynamic, great bass, with great imaging and soundstage.
I do have a few questions:
1. Are 12bh7's interchangeable in the Purity?
2. How does the Purity One mkii compare sonically?
3. As my system is on the less detailed side, what tube would you recommend for increased detail?