To our surprise after opening up a pair of very expensive 802 models to mod the crossover we were shocked. Schocked to find the cheapest parts and flimsy crossover.
One would think for the price at least better quality parts would be used.
To make a long story short a new crossover with heavier ga, inductors, Mundorf SIO caps and Dueland resistors. Oh the internal wiring as well had to go. All Deuland coper wiring.
The result was staggering. A new speaker. Not bright hard or lean any longer.
If you own B&W speakers seriously consider a crossover mod. Well worth the effort.
charles
Frank VanAlstine has talked of a mistake B&W made in their crossover that he had a fix for. Not sure of the exact model # but might be worth tracking down the info - it was posted on AC several times over the years.
Always nice to hear of successful bang-for-the-buck improvements! :thumb:
It's the eternal triangle of project management expressed for speaker development, the points of the triangle being;
- box
- xover and wiring
- drivers.
You want to make a profit on the speaker, but want it to stand out from the crowd, then you get nice veneer and quality drivers - but that costs, and cuts into profit.
So the xover gets shortchanged. Plus, most owners never see the xover, so it's a place to save money on.
I've upgraded most my speaker xovers, it's always an improvement.
Charles-
I own a pair of 802f Specials, made in 1984. I've yet to hear a speaker I like as much as them. Still, the Nervosa in me leads to seek a higher plane.
Do you have specifics as to the changes in the x-overs?
az
What model year are the 802's, Charles? It's likely a very different speaker than Allen's.
-C
Right on Carlman not the 802F or "D" the "D" used Mundorf SIO for the tweeters. The "F" series was a special edition. It was the original model 802, year ? Got me.
Being more specific "older models". A general statement is not fair to B&W. :thumb:
charles
Quote from: rollo on December 31, 2011, 07:59:46 AMTo our surprise after opening up a pair of very expensive 802 models to mod the crossover we were shocked. Schocked to find the cheapest parts and flimsy crossover
I, and others I know, have seen the insides of B&W speakers - not what I would call high end at all - full of green caps etc. Maybe not just by itself but when you measure and listen to it you realise it does not live up to the hype.
Great to hear when it's corrected things are a lot better.
I got into a lot of trouble on our forum here in Aus by posting the above observations - seems B&W owners are very fanatical. I even posted about some tests Hi Fi World did that verified its frequency response was crap and the person that took them (Noel Keywood) stated it outright - anything that measures that bad is not high end. Again same response - but of course this time it was not me saying it and they have to take notice of a guy with Noe's's knowledge and experience.
My understanding is you are correct - the D uses a Mundorf - but only a single capacitor forming a first order crossover - not my favourite - but you know horses for courses.
I have also been privileged to see the inside of a few expensive speakers - one $20K model used nothing but electrolitics - yuck.
Thanks
Bill
I was never enamored about the B&W sound. Never could understand the hype and love of them. But then there are certainly other name brands that also have that kind of customer loyalty that I feel the same way toward.
The 802F's made a big deal about their use of a 4th order Butterworth crossover which allegedly delivered a 24db/octave rolloff. I've never taken them apart to see what devices are actually in its crossover, but it was a main selling point of the speaker. That, and its sound quality.
Quote from: BobM on January 03, 2012, 06:02:26 PM
I was never enamored about the B&W sound. Never could understand the hype and love of them. But then there are certainly other name brands that also have that kind of customer loyalty that I feel the same way toward.
I loved mine from the moment I heard them. They are such an easy listen. Very polite, very English, but bawdy when necessary.
Not every speaker from B&W sounded like mine. The early matrix series below the 80's (801, 802, 805) were dry like dust. Some of their very inexpensive (DM220) and very, very expensive (808's) failed to deliver on the B&W promise.
Even now, my beloved 802f's still do it for me.
I tell ya the B&W Diamonds Sounded awesome using a Rogers EHF 100 amp. Source was a DCS CDP. All Valhalla ICs and Shunyata PCs. Hydra conditioner and MIT speaker cables.
Just wonderfull.
charles