I borrowed the title for this topic from Evan. I looked through the Analog Devices section and felt something was missing. And then it struck me that there wasn't a thread here where members could post about their vinyl setups. It's a system, I feel, and it would be helpful for members to know what people are using. If someone posts how much they really like, for example, their phono preamp then it would be useful to know what table, arm, and cartridge they are using with it.
So let me start things off. My current vinyl rig consists of the following:
- SOTA Star Sapphire Series II Vacuum Platter Turntable finished in Koa Wood
- Ortofon Jubilee MC Cartridge
- SME 309 Tonearm
- Aesthetix Rhea Tube Phono Preamp
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/SOTA_STAR_SAPPHIRE.jpg)
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/Ortofon_Jubilee.jpg)
In the top photo off to the left is a Garrard 401 that I am getting ready. But this is a work in progress and won't be ready to use for about another month. So I'm not quite ready to talk about that table.
I really like the Ortofon Jubilee cartridge. It is pretty much neurtral. Has nicely extended high frequencies and authoritative bass slam if that is what is in the record grooves. The mids are lush but not overly warm and colored. It has a nude shibata stylus mounted on a boron cantilever and tracks like a champ. VTF is set at 2.4g and this cartridge is a nice match for low and medium mass tonearms.
Other cartridges that I have experience with are: Ortofon Kontrapunkt A, Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Benz Glider, Benz Wood L2, Denon DL-103R, ZYX R-100 SB Silver, and Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood. The Clearaudio Virtuoso is probably the best moving magnet cartridge I have ever heard. The Denon wasn't a good match for the SME 309 and sounded very dull, lifeless if you will. The ZYX R-100 had no fire and was way too analytical for my tastes, so I sold it to someone on Head-Fi. I gave away the Denon DL-103R to someone on AC who broke the cantilever on their DL-103 cartridge and was upset because he couldn't afford to buy a replacement for a while. The Benz Glider went to someone in Australia for less than half of what a new one costs. I still have the Benz Wood L2 but the cantilever failed (I didn't do anything to break it). I held on to it because Benz has a trade-in/trade-up allowance and I was planning on buying another Benz cartridge -- though I never got around to it.
I also own a Dynavector 20X2L MC cartridge that serves as a backup. It has never been on my tonearm.
The only other arm I have used on my SOTA was a classic SME 3009 Series II. It really is a nice arm but I feel the Ortofon Jubliee is a better match for the SME 309 that I am currently using.
Moving on to phono preamps, I have only been using outboard phono stages for about 6 years or so when I went to separates. To me this is the least important part of the chain. I have used a TC-760LC from phonopreamps.com (a new one is about $70), Cambridge 640p, Eastern Electric Mini Max, Musical Surroundings Phenomena II, and the RSA F-117 Nighthawk. I was pretty much satisfied with the performance of all of them. The TC-760LC used a pretty poor wall wart power supply that put some noise into the sound, but a better power supply fixed that problem.
I have owned lots of other turntables, some I can't even remember the specific details. Before I acquired the SOTA four years ago I was using a Rega P7. Rega definitely has its followers and detractors. The P7 is the next model down from their flagship P9. The P7 has a ceramic platter and features a RB700 tonearm with an outboard speed controller. It was a nice deck, made great music, and I was happy with it while I owned it. Then the chance came along to buy the SOTA at a very good price and I snapped it up.
So tell us about your vinyl rig and what led you to it.
--Jerome
Nice idea Jerome. For me the Linn LP12 king for a long time. But king to what, never really had another class "A" table. Bought it back in the early 1990s and now is fitted with Lingo, trampoline and cirkus upgrades. A Linn Arkiv cart [ .15mv] held its own until a micro Beno M2 wood body came along. The Benz was a better match for the Loesch & Weisner MM phono stage. The Linn required a step which affected the sound. Not good. The cant. went on the Benz as well , before its time I still believe.
That combo was so good to me that there was no desire to move on. When the CAT pre was in da house the Archiv and Linn were wonderfull.
Needed a new cart to mate better with the phono of the LW. Selected a Goldenote Boboli mk2 HOMC [ 2mv ]. However never installed it on the Linn.
Then the Kuzma Stobi S with Stogi S 12VTA arm came along. The Boboli mates very well with the arm and pre so far.
I've become a Goldenote fanboy. Staying put for now.
charles
I had Larry at Hollywood sound in Florida make my turntable after hearing high praise for his work from the Harry at VPI. I wanted a VPI but did';t have room for it at the time since it all had to fit into a cabinet. Larry made me what amounts to a scout prototype using a 1" Corian plinth, a MK III platter and bearing and a stand alone motor. The Scout was released by VPI about 2 years later after what I think of was demand for a table with a smaller footprint.
My original table had an Audioquest PT6 tonearm and a Grado Platinum cartridge on it. I was using an Audio Innovations phono stage, which sounded very nice.
I then upgraded to a Hagerman Coronet phono stage and a Dynavector 20XH cartridge. After I got paid for an article I wrote on upgrading CD players I bought myself a Moerch DP6 tonearm with the commission check and swapped out my Hagerman Coronet for a Hagerman Trumpet phono stage. The Dynavector was upgraded to an XX1 and I built a Hagerman Piccolo step-up, but it didn't mate very well overall. I then built a speed controller from a Mark Kelly design and got rid of my VPI rubber belt for silk string. Big PRAT improvement overall with that upgrade.
I then got an unbelievable deal on a used Transfiguration Temper cartridge and it all snapped into place. Of course there was tube rolling and cap swapping and adjustments and isolation stuff all along the way (tuning aids).
(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1231696007.jpg)
Transfiguration Temper (very low .25mv output)
(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1266189659.jpg)
Trumpet and Mark Kelly speed controller
(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1199294440.jpg)
Nottingham Analogue Systems Interspace Jr. with Jolida JD-9 preamp. Temp cartridge is a Denon DL110 HOMC. Not sure I'm crazy about the Jolida yet and I will eventually upgrade my cartridge.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1107)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1105)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1112)
I am using a Maplenoll Ariadne TT,AT 440ML and a custom inductance canceling phono-stage
Sorry about the big image I don't know how to resize it.
Scotty
Awesome guys. It's funny that all of your setups touch on something that I have wanted to try at one time or another.
Bob, consider yourself fortunate to own the Hagerman Trumpet. I wish they were still being made. Used ones don't come up for sale very often. Though I have to say that I am very happy with my Aesthetix Rhea, and I doubt very much that I would want to put something else in its place.
Evan, when I decided to go vintage and get a Garrard 401 there were a few other decks I was considering. One of them was a Nottingham Space Deck. The other was an Origin Live Resolution. I was interested in decks that could take two tonearms. I sent an email to the US distributor for Nottingham and it took him 2 months to get back to me. By then I had already ruled out the Origin Live deck and decided that in the long run I would have some fun with a Garrard 401 and it would turn out to be less expensive. But I have seen used Space Decks on Audiogon for very reasonable prices in the past...but there were none available at the time I was considering a second deck.
I like linear tracking/air bearing tonearms. I've seen a number of designs and the most intriguing one I have seen lately is from Trans-Fi Audio in the UK:
(http://www.trans-fi.com/Salvation/003.jpg)
I have a decision to make about my SOTA when I finish the Garrard 401 project sometime next month. The suspension in the SOTA is getting a little long in the tooth. The springs are getting a bit weak and the time is approaching when I will need to send the deck back to SOTA for some work. The motor is strong and speed stable at 33 and 45 RPM...but the chassis definitely will need to be rehung with new springs sometime soon. The SME 309 is a heavy arm.
I can do one of three things: Send my deck back and get it upgraded to Series IV parts, trade it in and buy a brand new SOTA Star Series V ($3,800), or sell my SOTA for whatever I can get for it and replace it with a different turntable. My SOTA still sounds great so I am not going to worry about it for now...but if I end up parting with it then I will probably consider the Trans-Fi deck. The cost would be close to the same as a new SOTA Star.
--Jerome
My rig consists of:
VPI Aries 1 with the original platter. I also have the Acrylic upgrade platter that can take the ring clamp.
JMW 10.5i tonearm. Same arm that the Classic comes with.
Grado Reference Sonata 5mv
Stainless Steel/Delrin clamp
SDS
Edensounds Terrastone footers and Terrastone base for the Aries motor.
Target wall shelf with 2" thick Maple Cutting Board
Vista Phono Preamp
Cambridge 640P Phono Preamp, heavily modded with all new parts inside and Pangea upgraded Power Supply
I stopped listening to vinyl years ago when I went thru my Home Theater phase (the dark years). Had a Thorens table that sat on my Audio stand barely played, sold my Infinity RS3B speakers and went 7 channel with Martin Logan and then AV123.
Then I got the wall shelf a couple of years ago. Bought a Project Debut 3 with all the upgrades less than 2 years ago. Bought a used VPI HW19 JR Mark IV with the Grado Cart and sold the Project. Bought the Aries, kept the Grado and sold the HW19 to an AN member. Oh and I sold the AV123s and bought Evan's Songtowers.
Looking to upgrade the Cart to a Dyna DV20?? or Soundsmith VPI cart. Maybe get a second Armwand so I can have 2 carts. Send the Vista back to Boris to set up for LOMC. Might get some better cables. Currently running Blue Jeans with Ground wire to the Pre and Morrows from the Pre to my Jolida Integrated Tube Amp.
I like the fact that the VPI is made in Jersey and has so many upgrades available for it. Wife's not to thrilled with that but I'm getting close to vinyl nirvana.
Putz, since I see you've got the SDS I strongly recommend that you try replacing the VPI rubber belt with silk string and readjust the speed appropriately. Tell us what you think about listening to vinyl again after you try this little tweak.
Bob
Quote from: jsaliga on January 14, 2012, 07:03:23 PM
I have a decision to make about my SOTA when I finish the Garrard 401 project sometime next month. The suspension in the SOTA is getting a little long in the tooth. The springs are getting a bit weak and the time is approaching when I will need to send the deck back to SOTA for some work. The motor is strong and speed stable at 33 and 45 RPM...but the chassis definitely will need to be rehung with new springs sometime soon. The SME 309 is a heavy arm.
I can do one of three things: Send my deck back and get it upgraded to Series IV parts, trade it in and buy a brand new SOTA Star Series V ($3,800), or sell my SOTA for whatever I can get for it and replace it with a different turntable. My SOTA still sounds great so I am not going to worry about it for now...but if I end up parting with it then I will probably consider the Trans-Fi deck. The cost would be close to the same as a new SOTA Star.
--Jerome
If/when you decide you want to sell that SOTA, ping me, I might be interested. Haven't had vinyl for a while but now have a good place for it and even the wife it pushing me to get back into it. :shock:
Bryan
Quote from: bpape on January 15, 2012, 04:50:55 AM........ and even the wife it pushing me to get back into it. :shock:
Bryan
Then act quickly!
Quote from: BobM on January 15, 2012, 04:34:44 AM
Putz, since I see you've got the SDS I strongly recommend that you try replacing the VPI rubber belt with silk string and readjust the speed appropriately. Tell us what you think about listening to vinyl again after you try this little tweak.
Bob
I've read about the silk string tweak before but not sure:
1. What kind of silk string do you use and where do you find it?
2. What's the technique for applying it to the motor and platter?
3. Just got the SDS. Any secrets that the manual does not disclose you wish to share?
Details, details.
Thanx Bob
Quote from: etcarroll on January 15, 2012, 07:18:10 AM
Quote from: bpape on January 15, 2012, 04:50:55 AM........ and even the wife it pushing me to get back into it. :shock:
Bryan
Then act quickly!
Tell me about it....
VPI Super ScoutMaster with the Acrylic upgrade platter and ring clamp.
JMW 9 tonearm - Signature version.
Dynavector 20x2-L
Stainless Steel clamp
SDS
Optional HRX footers on Ginko Cloud base on 5 HVAC vibration suppressors on a Cambre rack.
HRX motor.
E.A.R. 834 Signature Phono Preamp with 3 smoothplate NOS Telefunkens.
Still trying to decide between the VPI phono ICs vs ZU Mission vs Sonny's diy Silver Reveal.
And a pair of NOS Tele ribbed plates in the Purity pre, so it's an all Telefunken pathway where tubes are involved.
On other rack is my 25+ year old Denon 52f with a new Ortofon cart, it's fully auto so I use it when I'm using vinyl as 'background' music.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1127)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1128)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1129)
VPI HW19 MKIII with Aries platter and SME M2-9 tonearm. Ortofon Kontrapunkt A cartridge (thanks Jerome) and Rogue Stealth phono pre. A diy sandbox made for me by ecramer(thanks Ed)
Very nice guys.
Gene, that's almost too much turntable for your platform. :D
Bill, glad to see that the Ortofon has found a good home. I've always liked the VPI HW19 series.
--Jerome
silk thread source. I recommend trying #2,3,4 in whatever color you prefer.
http://www.artbeads.com/stringing-materials-griffin-silk-bead-cord.html (http://www.artbeads.com/stringing-materials-griffin-silk-bead-cord.html)
Bob
Quote from: jsaliga on January 15, 2012, 11:27:42 AM
Very nice guys.
Gene, that's almost too much turntable for your platform. :D
--Jerome
I know!
This is the big version of the Gingko Cloud 11, it just works, got it cheap from a guy in DC.
There is a Cloud 12S made just for my tt, but I never see it cheap. If I do, I'll snap it up and re-sell the Cloud 11
Micro Seiki BL 111 with Immedia RPM2 arm and a Lyra Titan cartridge. About 100 lbs.
(http://)
(//)
etcarroll , What weight is your Gingko 11 rated for? If I went for one of these I would need one rated for 70lbs. I have read reviews in Stereophile on these things and their measurements showed that they actually worked as advertised and were very effective at isolating the TT from structure borne vibration.
Scotty
Depends on how many balls you put in, I think each ball good for 10lbs, and I think the Cloud 11 comes with 5. I have 6 arranged with 4 biased towards the moter, (it's heavy), and remaining 2 in opposite corners.
http://www.gingkoaudio.com/cloud11.html
Quote from: etcarroll on January 15, 2012, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: jsaliga on January 15, 2012, 11:27:42 AM
Very nice guys.
Gene, that's almost too much turntable for your platform. :D
--Jerome
I know!
This is the big version of the Gingko Cloud 11, it just works, got it cheap from a guy in DC.
There is a Cloud 12S made just for my tt, but I never see it cheap. If I do, I'll snap it up and re-sell the Cloud 11
You could always do what I did. Put the TT on a maple butcher block and support that with about 8-10 squash balls between it and the shelf itself. A cheap mans Ginko, but very effective.
Thanks for the link and the DIY idea. My table has no suspension, as long as I don't have vibrations from the floor getting into the table I'm good to go. I live on the twelfth floor of a thirty-five year old condo building and I suspect that there is no small amount of vibration present in the building's structure itself.
Even though I can't directly hear any of this vibration through the loudspeakers it's possible that the vibrations may be clouding or masking information that might be present in the recording.
Scotty
I built a Teres that isn't really anything they sell. I used the bearing and platter from the Certus direct drive but am using the Verus rim drive motor. The base is made from 2 x ~2" maple I purchased from Mapleshade, finished with tung oil. The motor now sits lower than this photo, the picture was taken the first night I had it up and running. The motor now runs against the aluminum sub platter and is exactly at the same level as the bottom of the bearing. There is a lot of mass in this setup, the platter weighs right at 35lbs plus the weight of the base and custom made brass footers/levelers.
Arm is a Moerch DP-6 and I recently installed a Sound Smith "The Voice" signature cartridge. I am really digging the new cartridge over the Scheu-Benz that I've had for many years.
Phono stage is a first generation Hagerman Cornet. It has been brought up to essentially the same spec as the later version with the addition of CCS on the output tube. I also greatly stiffened the high voltage supply. One of these days I am going to build something new, perhaps a DIY version of the Trumpet or Stephie Bench's "No C" RIAA preamp.
The whole works mess sits on a ~1.5" thick piece of maple butcher block residing on some Herbies tender feet and those sit on some small cocobolo blocks.
I am pretty sure this is the last table I will ever need. I am utterly delighted with how it works and sounds.
Forgot to mention, thanks to all for sharing, I love seeing all the different setups. :thumb:
Quote from: mgalusha on January 15, 2012, 07:09:42 PM
I am utterly delighted with how it works and sounds.
And isn't that all that really matters? :thumb:
OK, I went crazy today looking for the USB cord for my digital camera, to no avail. So I will have to post some slightly old Pics.
Currently using a VPI HW-19 that was originally purchased as a Mk III but was recently u[graded with a Mk IV platter and the new VPI Isolators to replace the chassis springs. (The picture shows the table with the Mk III platter, before the upgrade.) The Arm is an SME Series IV which was upgraded to add fluid camping just like the Series V. The cart is a Sumiko Blackbird. For a phono section I am using the inboard phono electronics on my ARC SP-9.
It still has the original stock motor, but a SAMA will be in order somewhere down the road. The motor itself is drawing power through a VPI PLC (Power Line Conditioner.), which in addition to cleaning up the AC going to the TT motor it also provides you with the ability to change speed without going moving the belt across different size pullies
Quote from: tmazz on January 15, 2012, 07:17:15 PM
And isn't that all that really matters? :thumb:
Most certainly. 8)
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Linn Sondek LP12 / Linn Basik LV V / Sure M97xE / Audio Alchemy VAC in the Box.
Though I have a Sure SME 3009 arm from my old Rec-O-Kut rig that I may re-wire and install one of these days...
Well Tempered Reference with Clearaudio Maestro...
Loesch & Wiesner phonostage with Western Electric 417A, RCA 6GK5, TungSol 5687. Phonostage has dual mono GenRad 1201-B tube regulated power supplies...
Photos can be seen here... http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=116 (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=album;id=116)
Barry If you want to sell that 3009 I have a table that needs an arm like that
Mike
Quote from: tmazz on January 16, 2012, 12:08:51 AM
OK, I went crazy today looking for the USB cord for my digital camera, to no avail. So I will have to post some slightly old Pics.
Currently using a VPI HW-19 that was originally purchased as a Mk III but was recently u[graded with a Mk IV platter and the new VPI Isolators to replace the chassis springs. (The picture shows the table with the Mk III platter, before the upgrade.) The Arm is an SME Series IV which was upgraded to add fluid camping just like the Series V. The cart is a Sumiko Blackbird. For a phono section I am using the inboard phono electronics on my ARC SP-9.
It still has the original stock motor, but a SAMA will be in order somewhere down the road. The motor itself is drawing power through a VPI PLC (Power Line Conditioner.), which in addition to cleaning up the AC going to the TT motor it also provides you with the ability to change speed without going moving the belt across different size pullies
OK, About 3 years ago I scored a great deal on an SME drilled Super Armboard for my HW-19 just in case I ever did a Mk IV upgrade . (The super armboard is about double the thickness of the standard armboard and is designed to work with the added height of the Mk IV platter.) Well, when I got the Mk IV platter this fall I put off doing the armboard because of the amount of work involved in not only swapping the armboard, but also mounting the tonearm on the new board and then going through all the setup and alignment procedures again. Tuesday night I decided it was finally time to bite the bullet and make the swap. Well I was 100% correct about one thing, this job was one swift pain in the b@lls. Because of the extra thickness of the armboard some of the screws are now recessed in the board making it almost impossible to thread the nuts onto them (the recessed holes are big enough for the nuts but not big enough to get any kind of pliers in there to hold the nuts until the threads catch.) A few of the nuts were so tough to get on that I just gave up and went to Home Depot and bought longer screws so I could thread the nuts on outside of the hole. And of course I didn't come to the conclusion that this was what I needed to do this until after every store in the area that sold screws was closed for the night, (Murphy's Law :duh )
Luckily once I got the longer screws on Wed night everything went pretty smoothly. It is all back together and pretty much aligned. Basically all that is left to do is to dial in the exact required VTA a little bit at a time over the next few weeks.
As for how it sounds, I won't have a full picture until the alignment is completely done, but I can already hear that it the table now presents the music on a quieter and blacker background and the details are more focused and detailed without getting hard. And this should only get better as the alignment gets closer and closer to its final setup.
So as not to engage the wrath of the photo police, [-X a picture of the new setup is attached.
Hey Tom looking good for our next Audio Syndrome meeting in Feb.
charles
Wow, that looks awesome!! Congrats on the challenging project.
Doug, AC doesn't allow pic hits from other domains.
It's just another way of AC saying "we love you"
Quote from: richidoo on February 05, 2012, 12:41:37 PM
Doug, AC doesn't allow pic hits from other domains.
Quote from: BobM on February 05, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
It's just another way of AC saying "we love you"
Just another thing to add to the list of reasons why I like it here. :thumb:
I was going to add a Hagerman Trumpet to my rig but our TV decided to crap out last night during the Superbowl halftime show, so I get to replace that instead of a phono stage. :(
Who needs TV when you can have music. Get the Trumpet and watch TV via Hulu on your PC.
I'm with you Bob but there is another who could care less about listening to music and I like waking up next to her. :)
Quote from: mgalusha on February 06, 2012, 07:54:59 AM
I'm with you Bob but there is another who could care less about listening to music and I like waking up next to her. :)
It would be awful cold sleeping in the garage in your neck of the woods. :rofl:
TV = wife distractor, essential audio component!
Mike, hope you didn't miss Madonna... :yay2: Not too bad for an old hag. If my cable broke during that halftime show I would also need a new TV and a new remote. :rofl: Now we're off really topic - AN style! :thumb:
Rich, I'm blaming the failure on Madonna. :lol:
The upside is that Jim Hagerman has the schematics available. So while not designed as a DIY project I'm confident I could (probably will) build one. (back on topic now...)
I'm sure your diy Trumpet will be a cut above the production version. I'll be watching what you do as my potential Vista replacement.
I still need to post my analog system here too.
I have a Trumpet Mike, so if you need me to look inside and take a peek for you or snap a picture just let me know. However, it is a beast to take apart (I know, I just replaced the 4 high output diodes on it) and there are parts on both sides and underneath other parts so you can;t see everything with a picture. Jim did some extroadinary layout on these boards to isolate ground planes and such. There is also a lot of build that addresses vibration reductions.
Good luck,
Bob
Why did he stop production of the Trumpet?
No matter what you use, setup of such really makes a world of difference. Azimuth, speed and VTA are critical to great sound.
After initial set up of the new TT my Nervosa encouraged me to fool with the VTA. Big mistake. Then removed the dampening fluid a bit at a time to achieve the minimum amount required. The Azimuth got messed with, after that move. Sounded like crap. When all was set correctly again especially speed and VTA a day and night difference.
It can be a royal pain in the arse getting it done however the end result is again staggering.
charles
Quote from: richidoo on February 06, 2012, 01:21:03 PM
Why did he stop production of the Trumpet?
Costly to build and stock parts and not enough profit margin for the time and materials and relatively soft order flow. I still don;t understand how an audio company hasn;t picked up Jim Hagerman for their own electronics line, unless he really just doesn't want to leave Hawaii (would you?).
Quote from: BobM link=topic=3639.msg48849#msg48849I still don;t understand how an audio company hasn;t picked up Jim Hagerman for their own electronics line, unless he really just doesn't want to leave Hawaii (would you?).
Ya think????
(http://www.piphawaii.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Caribbean-Hawaii-Travel1.jpg)
Guys,
We are off the beaten path with the last dozen or so posts. I intended for this topic to be filled with analogue eye candy. It was to provide a space for members to post pics of their rig and tell us something of a story that is behind it.
Cartridge set up, azimuth alignment ,etc., etc. are all worthwhile topics in their own right...but they really are off topic here and I would appreciate it if we could keep this thread on track. Thanks.
--The Closet Music Lover
No
See ya.
wow everyone here is so sensitive :?
Jerome everyone who has a vinyl rig on this site has posted pictures of it.
So what now? Fantasy systems.
So they drift off on a little tangent, it is not like we are talking about anything of importance really!
we are talkin up our stereos. guys talking about stereos that is all, no senate finance committee's here, just guys hanging out
Quote from: doug s. on February 07, 2012, 01:30:59 PM
my new fantasy turntable; awaiting a new belt. it took a long time to get my motorcycle-shop guy to fab me the adapter to mount the tone arm, in exchange for a buell factory parts manual i had given him! :thumb:
doug s.
Wow, a vintage Empire table. That brings back memories.
My kid's pediatrician has his office in a building put up on the site of the old Empire factory in Garden City.
Quote from: doug s. on February 07, 2012, 01:57:52 PM
that is a rare 498 - suspension subchassis of the later 598/698's and solid 1-piece platter of the earlier unsuspended 208/308's. the earlier empires are far easier to mount other arms to. when empires are properly set up, you will have to spend north of $2500 on any modern new deck to approach the sonics, imo...
I couldn't tell from the pics, what kind of arm are you mounting on it?
You don't see cast iron parts on TTs anymore.
Quote from: richidoo on February 07, 2012, 02:09:21 PM
You don't see cast iron parts on TTs anymore.
You don't see cast iron parts on much of
anything any more.
(I found a pair of old crusty cast iron frying pans at an estate sale last weekend. :thumb:)
How much tracking force does the parrot require?
I'd bring this back on track by posting my rig, but my work laptop doesn't have any pics of it.
Quote from: etcarroll on February 07, 2012, 08:29:26 PM
How much tracking force does the parrot require?
I'd bring this back on track by posting my rig, but my work laptop doesn't have any pics of it.
Is the parrot a special accessory for playing Jimmy Buffett records? :lol:
(If so I need to get one.)
Quote from: doug s. on February 07, 2012, 10:50:02 PM
parrot? what parrot? :mrgreen:
doug s.
He's just resting. :rofl:
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/deadparrot1308_468x333.jpg)
So much for that "live" analog sound!
Quote from: tmazz on February 07, 2012, 11:10:57 PM
Quote from: doug s. on February 07, 2012, 10:50:02 PM
parrot? what parrot? :mrgreen:
doug s.
He's just resting. :rofl:
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/deadparrot1308_468x333.jpg)
Quote from: doug s. on February 07, 2012, 01:30:59 PM
my new fantasy turntable; awaiting a new belt. it took a long time to get my motorcycle-shop guy to fab me the adapter to mount the tone arm, in exchange for a buell factory parts manual i had given him! :thumb:
doug s.
I like the new "audiophile approved" tail feather record duster! Where did you get it? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Monty Python Dead Parrot Sketch :rofl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO1T7b07I7E
Pro-Ject Perspective Carbon
Pro-Ject Speed Box MKII
Pro-Ject Tube Box SE
AT 440 MLa
Desperately need VPI record vac...
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1177)
Hiya Guys,
Been a while since I've posted (I lurk quite a bit) :)
Here's my rig
First up is the main table, an Opera LP5 with the Dynavector 507 MkII arm. The pic is low rez but it gives you an idea of my front end.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1185)
This older pic shows a little better the LP5 integrated stand. All in it's 175 pounds of table less the arm. Oh, and that's my (Bryan's old) AR ES1 that is now doing duty in our exercise room.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1186)
Thought I'd toss this one in just cause it's cool looking 8) It's a close up of my Yamamoto on the DV arm
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=555)
...and finally, here is my dedicated 78 system. It's an old Dual 1219 with a Shure M78 cart. It feeds my 1954ish Stomberg Carlson 6L6 mono amp. It feeds my mid-50s Altec 824 Iconic. Pretty awesome sound :thumb: WAY better than most would imagine.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1184)
Quote from: mfsoa on February 12, 2012, 02:12:25 PM
Desperately need VPI record vac...
Hey Mike,
Here's an easy one for you that won't break the bank. It's my version of a DIY RCM. It's nothing more than the KAB EV1 record cleaner ($169), an old donor platter and bearing (form a Hitachi TT in my case, $10), a portable vacuum cleaner ($5 garage sale), an old TV stand ($5 garage sale), a few wire cup style pencil and paper clip holders from Walmart ($15) and finally a set of brushes and solution from the Disc Doctor ($75).
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1187)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1188)
As you can see, I installed a door to cover up the vacuum. I made it out of old scrap.
I think it took me all of about an hour to assemble it all once I figured out how to arrange it. It's on wheels so it's mobile. Pretty simple but effective plus it does a bang up job of deep cleaning your favorite albums.
I say deep clean because that's what I use it for. More often than not, I find myself using the Spin Clean. It works great for a quick clean. It gets most all of the nasties and isn't too much fuss to use. When I want a serious clean, I park myself in front of my DIY RCM. It's the only thing that gets the last ounces of the crap out of the grooves, IMO of course.
That's wicked cool Scott! 8)
I love seeing the DV arm, the SB3 next to the shellacs, diyRCM, very inspiring all around. Thanks for sharing!
I recently bought a Trans-Fi Salvation DC rim drive, slate plinth, with Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro air bearing arm from the UK, and Zu Denon 103. The arm wiring is silver, direct from the cart clips to a pair of Eichmann RCA's into the phono stage. About 70 lbs worth all told. The arm has on the fly VTA setting and arm wands can be swapped instantly with no changes other than re-plugging the RCA's and dressing the wiring.
I'm still dialing it all in and learning its quirks, but so far it's very, very nice sounding.
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1194)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1193)
(http://www.audionervosa.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=1195)
I applaud Scott F's ingenuity.
However, there's something to be said for a true RCM. Plus, it allows for other ingenuity. For example, I learned from eleazar that as good as vacumn is, adding steam is the needed step for really soiled vinyl. An RCM allows me to use my diy steamer.
Quote from: doug s. on February 18, 2012, 06:08:42 PM
....mebbe a/c doesn't allow pic hits from a/n? :mrgreen:
I think they're just afraid of us. :twisted:
Quote from: doug s. on February 18, 2012, 06:08:42 PM
Quote from: richidoo on February 05, 2012, 12:41:37 PM
Doug, AC doesn't allow pic hits from other domains.
actually, this is not true. mebbe a/c doesn't allow pic hits from a/n? :mrgreen: i was able to link pics from a/c to another forum where i participate...
doug s.
Awwwww..... that's too bad. Very sad indeed.
I'll add a few pics of my Garrard 401 rig now that it is all set up and dialed in.
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/Garrard401_2.jpg)
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/Garrard401_3.jpg)
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/Garrard401_SPU_GoldReference.jpg)
(http://www.indierockfan.net/pics/Garrard401_SPU.jpg)
The 9" arm features a Ortofon SPU Gold Reference low output moving coil stereo cartridge. It tracks at 3 grams and uses a Ortofon Replicant 100 nude line contact stylus affixed to an aluminum cantilever.
The 12" arm features a Ortofon SPU mono DG25 moving coil cartridge. It tracks at 3.5 grams and uses a spherical stylus with a 25µm tip radius for playing mono LPs that were pressed between 1948 and 1960.
I also have a Lyra Kleos cartridge that I just bought and haven't taken it out of the box yet. After listening to the Ortofon SPU Gold Reference for a few days I am thinking about returning the Lyra. I have another two weeks to make up my mind and I intend to take that time to think about it.
This is the analogue front end that I have wanted for years. I always admired and lusted after the classic Garrard 301/401 and Thorens TD124 designs...but I never seemed to be able to get around pursuing one until now. I'm very glad I did it.
--Jerome
Jerome, it is indeed interesting that you mounted the mono stylus on the longer (and many would assume better) tonearm. That certainly shows your committment to enjoying mono pressings.
The deck looks awesome. Any thoughts of adding a tonearm clamp to hold back that 12" arm in case it is accidently bumped? You don't want it skittering sideways over a record.
Quote from: BobM on February 23, 2012, 05:34:09 AM
Jerome, it is indeed interesting that you mounted the mono stylus on the longer (and many would assume better) tonearm. That certainly shows your committment to enjoying mono pressings.
The deck looks awesome. Any thoughts of adding a tonearm clamp to hold back that 12" arm in case it is accidently bumped? You don't want it skittering sideways over a record.
Bob if you look at the base of the arm right by the cueing lever there is a black C clip (it's hard to see in the pic, but its there.) That looks like the same clip that is on my Oracle arm. You have to give the arm a pretty good push to get in in there and once it is it holds on pretty tight. If the clip on Jerome's arm works the same he should have no trouble with it getting bumped out.
Jerome it's funny you should post up the pics of your new rig today. Inspired by your mono adventures I decided to give it a whirl myself and ordered a Ortofon D25M mono cartridge to mount in the Thorens TD-147 that my son was using in his system before we got the VPI Jr for him. Mounted it up last night and was just playing a mono RCA pressing of Fritz Reiner doing Dvorak's New World Symphony. It really does sound much quieter than when I played it on my stereo rig. Of course the detail is not the same as it is a much lower level cart and TT, but it sounds good in its own right. Maybe someday I'll spring for a higher quality mono cart, but for right now I will just be having fun combing through the Crack House picking out a bunch of those 50s mono LPs that I had been leaving behind in the past. Oh no, this may call for another record rack. :roll:
I've been cleaning and listening to a bunch of older mono Columbia 6 eyes that a friend dropped off from his fathers collection. All classical in nature, so far and many are not totally ruined.
But they really have very little life and no real big dynamic that I hear on more modern recordings. I thought the old 6 eyes were supposed to be cream? Is it the stereo cartridge? Would a mono cartridge make these come to life better?
Quote from: BobM on February 23, 2012, 09:17:05 AM
I've been cleaning and listening to a bunch of older mono Columbia 6 eyes that a friend dropped off from his fathers collection. All classical in nature, so far and many are not totally ruined.
But they really have very little life and no real big dynamic that I hear on more modern recordings. I thought the old 6 eyes were supposed to be cream? Is it the stereo cartridge? Would a mono cartridge make these come to life better?
I have never been a big fan of Columbia classical recordings period for the very reasons that you stated. I find similar characteristics in the stereo versions as well. Just not in the same league as RCA and Mercury.
Being a new Yorker, my father was a Leonard Bernstein fan and had quit a few of his Columbia albums in the house. So this was my standard of what Classical music was all about and I never warmed up to or really appreciated it. As I got older and had the urge to explore Classical a bit more the first place I went to was the records my father had in the house. And it still did nothing for me. It wasn't until I got introduced to some other orchestras recorded by other labels (Reiner or Munch on RCA, Ansermet on London/Decca etc.) that I began to enjoy classical as an art form.
Now six eye jazz albums (Brubeck, Miles etc.) are a totally different story. But IMO those were head and shoulders better recordings right back to the original tapes.
IMO what you are hearing is shortcomings in the recordings themselves and no cartridge choice will fix that.
I wouldn't paint any label's pressings with a wide brush where the quality of recording or vinyl pressing are concerned. I have many Columbia 6 Eye mono pressings that could easily stand up to and even better anything being cut and pressed today. I also have some that are pretty disappointing.
I don't have time right now but later I will post a few that are well worth hunting down.
--Jerome
Quote from: tmazz on February 23, 2012, 09:38:21 AM
Being a new Yorker, my father was a Leonard Bernstein fan and had quit a few of his Columbia albums in the house. So this was my standard of what Classical music was all about and I never warmed up to or really appreciated it.
I should probably get this out of the way and just say it. Columbia did not make many recordings of Bernstein and the NPO that were sonically flattering to the conductor and the orchestra. The Bernstein recordings that I prize the most were recorded by Columbia, unfortunately. You will find no better
performance of Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 4 than the one originally recorded by Bernstein and the NPO for Columbia in the 1950s. Sadly, the quality of the recording does not do the performance justice. And so it went with many Bernstein recordings for Columbia. Compare those recordings to the sonics of the works he did for Deutsche Grammophon and oh what a difference. But the performances for DG were not the equal of those legendary Columbia dates in the 1950s.
The story is quite a bit different when you look at the recorded work done by Columbia of Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, or Bruno Walter and the Columbia Orchestra. The sonics on most of those recordings simply smokes the Bernstein LPs. I won't speculate why that is the case.
As a rule, I really try to avoid getting into SQ debates because, honestly, I find them to be a colossal waste of my time. As with anything in audio, YMMV, and for any given LP that I think sounds fantastic someone else will think sounds like shit. I will say emphatically that having a moving coil mono cart with a spherical stylus with the correct tip radius has really elevated my enjoyment of the many mono LPs from the 1950s that I own. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that someone else had a different experience under similar circumstances, but that doesn't have anything to do with me and it wouldn't change my opinion. C'est la vie.
--Jerome
I was going to start the post by saying "I'm sure Jerome has more experience in this area and may chime in with some further information but..." and then the phone rang and when I got back to the post I forgot to put it in. But I'm glad you jumped in to keep me honest anyhow. :D
I agree that debating sonics is a waste of time and that a great performance with mediocre SQ beats the other way around any day of the week. I was responding to Bob's inquiry as to whether a mono cart would make some of the old Columbia classical LPs sound more lively and dynamic and the point that I was trying to make was that the SQ he was getting was in line with the previous experience I had with albums of that series and IMO the culprit was most likely the recording itself and not the cart used to play it. I was not trying to make a judgement call as to the merit of the content (and I guess I should have made that more clear), but rather the SQ he was getting as a matter of mechanical reproduction system.
The point I was making about my fathers records was that as an uneducated listener the lack of sonic quality did nothing to make me want to listen to unfamiliar music. Once I had access to better equipment and better recordings the SQ drew me into the music and I became interested to the point where I learned more about the music and became interested in it on a musical basis alone. But without that SQ and goosebump factor I might never have given it a chance.
Now I am going to have to seek out a copy of the Bernstein Tchaikovsky 4th. :roll:
Tom, we are both saying the same thing...just going about it a little differently.
In response to this comment from Bob:
QuoteBut they really have very little life and no real big dynamic that I hear on more modern recordings. I thought the old 6 eyes were supposed to be cream? Is it the stereo cartridge? Would a mono cartridge make these come to life better?
The answer is I don't know why you are hearing what you are hearing. It would help to know the specific LPs to which you are referring. As I indicated above, not all Columbia 6 Eye mono pressings are sonic gold. I will be posting some Columbia 6 Eye LPs in the music thread later today and a few of them push the dynamic range capabilities of vinyl. The noise floor of your analogue front end will be a factor.
Whether or not a mono cartridge will improve what you are hearing on the LPs you have I cannot say. I can only speak for myself and only with respect to the LPs that I own and listen to. I know that sounds like a cop out...but that's a fact.
You have a few options. You can haul some of your LPs to a friend's house who has a good quality moving coil mono cart and try them on his deck, or you can buy your own mono cartridge if you believe the potential reward is greater than the risk of buying a cartridge that doesn't float your boat. Since I did not have a buddy nearby with a mono rig I went the other route and invested in my own setup. After doing some research I was convinced that the rewards were real and far outweighed the risk. I had more than enough 1950s mono pressings to make it all worthwhile. So it worked out very well for me. You could make the same choice I did and be very disappointed. Don't know and can't say.
--Jerome
Quote from: jsaliga on February 23, 2012, 01:37:27 PM
Tom, we are both saying the same thing...just going about it a little differently.
We do that a lot, don't we? 8)
In my case it wasn't a big risk at all.Because of some system rearanging I ended up with an extra TT (Thorens TD-147), which while not a bad table, just didn't really have much of a resale value, so I wasn't tying up a large amount of cash in the experiment. All I had to do was pick up a mono cart, which I was able to do for $81 (Ortofon D25M). It's not the greatest cart, but it will let me see what the mono world is all about and I can then decide if I want to upgrade to better Mono cart. (Thanks for putting up that post about the Grados not being true mono carts but rather stereo carts wired to put out bridged channels. I was almost ready to buy the Grado until I read your comments.)
I have only played two records on it so far, but what I notice is not so much an improvement in SQ, but rather a reduction in distractions. Part of this is due to the fact that my stereo cart is much higher quality than the mono, but I find that mono records played on the stereo TT have more noise and the noise that is there is more up front and in your face. On the mono cart the noise is less and what is there is less aggressive than when the LP is played on the stereo TT.
So far I would say the experiment is a success. Whether the mono TT gets enough use in the long run to make is worth the hassle of keeping up a second rig (and the real estate in my rack) is yet to be seen. But it's fun for now. :D
I listened to this one tonight and it sounded GREAT
Sheherazade - Philadelphia - Eugene Ormandy - CL 850
I think I found that the red label Columbia 6 eyes are dynamic and extended and the grey labels sound flat. Yes, the performances are classic, but I find I can't get involved because dynamically they are lifeless. I might just search through this stash for red labels and start there.
Quote from: BobM on February 23, 2012, 07:06:58 PM
I think I found that the red label Columbia 6 eyes are dynamic and extended and the grey labels sound flat.
Your finding isn't consistent with my experience. But to each his own. This is one of the reasons I usually don't indulge in SQ discussions. There isn't much of a point in in debating it when people have varying degrees of experience, different expectations, different environments, etc. It certainly isn't a productive use of my time.
Grey labels were used on all Columbia Masterworks (ML catalog series) and Columbia Soundtrack (OL and KOL catalog series) albums between 1955 and 1962. All other 6 Eye pressings used red labels during the same period.
I will gladly take any and all near mint mono Columbia Masterworks LPs off of your hands that you feel have poor sound.
Moving on...
--Jerome
Note: Made some edits to clarify my meaning.
Doug, I'd like to say there is some sort of strategy in play with the tonearms, but there really isn't. I only put a 12" arm on the Garrard because...well, because I could...and to satisfy my curiosity. I did some research on 12" arms before deciding and the jury really seems to be out about the perceived benefits of a longer arm. Sure, a 12" arm has less tracking error than a 9" arm. But honestly I don't know that it matters where the business end of the sound is concerned.
One of the great things about running Ortofon SPU cartridges on both arms is that swapping them is simple enough. Both have the same VTA, and both are exactly the same dimensions. The only difference is that one tracks at 3g and the other at 3.5g. So swapping them around is pretty easy, and at some point I will probably do that. But I am not expecting the heavens to open up and rain down great sonic revelations by running the Ortofon SPU Gold Reference cartridge on the 12" tonearm. Things really sound fine just the way they are. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/smile.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
--Jerome
Quote from: jsaliga on February 24, 2012, 02:32:02 PM
...... I am not expecting the heavens to open up and rain down great sonic revelations by running the Ortofon SPU Gold Reference cartridge on the 12" tonearm. Things really sound fine just the way they are. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/smile.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
If it ain't broke.......... :roll:
Quote from: tmazz on February 25, 2012, 04:01:47 PMIf it ain't broke.......... :roll:
Then break it! :rofl:
--Jerome
Quote from: doug s. on February 25, 2012, 04:48:01 PM
Quote from: jsaliga on February 25, 2012, 04:09:35 PM
Quote from: tmazz on February 25, 2012, 04:01:47 PMIf it ain't broke.......... :roll:
Then break it! :rofl:
--Jerome
jerome, that sounds an awful lot one of my fave expressions - if it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is! :thumb:
Yup, the ol common mistake. " If I just change the blah, blah, blah yeah thats the ticket " Now it is broke. :rofl:
charles
My Technics SP25 on a custom Baltic Birch Plinth with Sumiko tonearm and cartridge, total weight with plinth 52lbs.
Male custom Plinths using exotic woods(http://[img][img])[/img][/img]