What are your favorite "Bang for the buck" (RCA) I/C's that perform way beyond their price point?
Thanks!
SN
JPS UltraConductor2 is the best RCA IC value, imo.
For balanced I am always amazed by Pro Co XLR mic cables, from Sweetwater.com $17/yard, Neutrik connectors, shielded, made in USA. They sound very good.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLR3/ (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLR3/)
I've been a big fan of JPS for a long time and use SC3 speaker and IC cables to a large extent. But Black Cat (Chris Sommovigo) just released a new analog IC called LectraLine that seems to be garnering a good bit of early praise. I just ordered a pair to try between phono pre and pre.
I'm quite happy with Chris's SilverStar digital IC between Squeezebox Touch and DAC. I think Chris is doing his online business through Stereomatic.com these days. You can also find his cables at The Cable Company as well I think.
Great guy, great cables, great prices... what's more to say :thumb:
For DIY I doubt that you can beat the Jon Risch recipe for his Belden 89259/89248 twisted pair with RCA's of your choice. Link here:
http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/cables.htm (http://www.geocities.ws/jonrisch/cables.htm)
For ready market cables I use Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Ovals, but they are decidedly more expensive than the DIY route (better too though).
There are a ton of decent cables available in the used market. Just pick your poison.
Cant say I've auditioned many but Im happy with my Morrow
ICs and speaker cables.
60 day trial periods are available
http://www.morrowaudio.com/cables.htm (http://www.morrowaudio.com/cables.htm)
Bill
I see an audio nervosa relapse now that the preamp selection has been settled :lol:
Quote from: Emil on December 11, 2012, 11:40:40 AM
Cant say I've auditioned many but Im happy with my Morrow
ICs and speaker cables.
60 day trial periods are available
http://www.morrowaudio.com/cables.htm (http://www.morrowaudio.com/cables.htm)
Bill
I see an audio nervosa relapse now that the preamp selection has been settled :lol:
Emil
You of all people, being a ex-Naim owner should know that I will soon be leaving the "Land of the DIN & XLR connectors" and will have no other choice but to explore the NEW WORLD of RCA I/C's for my new gear. :shock:
I'm just trying to be a good "audio boyscout" and be prepared! :thumb:
SN
Tuan (Sonny) over on AC makes interconnects. I have not heard them but they have gotten some good comments. Don't think they're terribly expensive.
Bryan
Hey SN
Finding the budget/Giant Killer IC's can be maddening. Take it from a guy that is part of the way there into the insanity. I've got various cabling by MAC. I'm trying Speltz Anti-Cables right now. I got lucky and they are broken in already. I ordered Morrow Audio 1.1 cables from the current round of sales Morrow is having and am breaking them in as I'm typing this. It is rough going through the 500 hours burn-in. Before all this I've also got DH Labs, Blue Jeans, Outlaw Audio and Emotiva cables. Luckily I bought most of this stuff used so my wallet isn't hurting too much. Re-sale won't kill me either knock on wood.
Out of all these cables their hasn't been any clear cut winner in my systems. Compared to each other they all have little differences. It didn't help that I lost my notebook with my findings. I'm getting lazy to re-test it all. I haven't moved onto the more expensive cables. The Lectra Line from Chris Sommavigo really interested me but I didn't have the funds to buy them at the intro price. I had the Morpheus line of speaker cables and with my gear it wasn't a good match. Even after 500 hours + of break-in the highs weren't bearable. I was worried the Lectra Line might be the same.
Best of luck with the search.
Thanks everyone, for the comments/ideas so far.:thumb:
Even though I was teasing Emil a bit, what I said was (is) true regarding this sudden cable search. I have been running some form of Naim electronics for 25+ years and because of their need for DIN & XLR connectors, I've been immune to a good majority of this cable merry-go-'round up until now.
As most of you know, I am in the middle of a major system change as I move on from my Naim gear. Eventually, once everything is in the house (hopefully soon?) my system will be as follows:
• Linn LP12 / RB300 / Linn Adikt
• Sound-smith MMP3 Phono Stage
• Cambridge (D500 SE) CD Player as transport
• Eastern Electric (original) Minimax DAC with Black cat Veloce digital cable.
• Dodd Audio VGP Pre-amp (with Sonicap platinum upgrade)
• NYAL Moscode 600 Amp (completely re-furbed with all of the available mods from George Kaye.)
• Von Schweikert Audio 2012 Mod VR-4 Gen.III speakers with QED Silver Spiral speaker cable.
• PS Audio Quintet power strip
• Asst. cables, power cords, etc...
Once I can get the system settled in, I will eventually start to audition new/used I/C's (as the "tuning devices" that they are) to hopefully improve the overall synergy.
Time to cue up the Star Trek theme music! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
SN
I'm considering a side biz making some ICs using this wire:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_copper_cot.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_copper_cot.html)
and these connectors:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html)
It's not very expensive, and the Neotech wire is the best I've ever used in many, many years of DIYing ICs.
Quote from: DaveC on December 11, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
I'm considering a side biz making some ICs using this wire:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_copper_cot.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_neotech_copper_cot.html)
and these connectors:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html)
It's not very expensive, and the Neotech wire is the best I've ever used in many, many years of DIYing ICs.
Hey Dave - Keep me in mind if you need a Beta tester! - SN :thumb:
Quote from: DaveC on December 11, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
and these connectors:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html (http://www.partsconnexion.com/product23189.html)
I did perform a shootout of several RCA connectors some time ago. I tried the following - all available at Partsconnexion.com:
Cardas SLVR - they are big, heavy and a pain to solder because they are so thick and well made. No strain relief. The epitome of a "heavy" connector. They sound a bit top end heavy and seem to accentuate the highs a bit. Good for a warm system looking to lighten it up some.
Connex 5245 - these were my "go to" generic plugs for a long while. Screw down strain relief. Very nice and balanced but may lack some of the air and sparkle the better connectors bring to the table, but at a far higher price. Similar plug to this is the Dayton Audio WBT clones at PartsExpress.com.
Eichmann Copper Bullits - these were the cats meow to many DIY'ers in the past. I really can't say why. They sounded flat and uninvolving to me. They are the epitome of a "light" connector, made of plastic (be careful soldering or they will melt) with small connector pins. No strain relief.
WBT 0144 - expensive little suckers but they do sound better to my ears. Worth the price? Your call. Screw down strain relief. These are widely used on a number of good and expensive interconnect cables.
DH Labs Silver Sonics - these are what I prefer in my system. They sound just a tad more open than the WBT's and are less expensive too. Allthough you probably couldn't tell them apart just by looking at them, except for the barrel. Screw down strain relief.
Do not forget Steve at My Cables in LI. Tom M. has had very good results with his cables.
My fav is Gonenberg from Odyssey . A tad warmer than JPS SC-3 in direct comparison. The Ultra conductor 2 is very similar to the Gronenberg and less money.
However as you know one size does not fit all. Listen to your new rig for some time and get really familiar with its character. Then try the gamut of IC out there. Our club members have many cables for you to check out.
Rich good call on the balanced IC. Going to pick some up very shortly to check out. Always wanted to try balanced from QOL to Amps. Cannot use from preamp as it is single ended only.
charles
Quote from: rollo on December 12, 2012, 07:16:12 AM
Rich good call on the balanced IC. Going to pick some up very shortly to check out. Always wanted to try balanced from QOL to Amps. Cannot use from preamp as it is single ended only.
charles
That's my problem too - CD player is balanced, amp is balanced, preamp is not, so I can't go that route either. Well, it probably saved me a fortune in recabling too, so I guess I can live with it.
Switching to these XLRs between stereofool's AR Ref1 preamp and VT100 amp makes a huge difference. I never really liked them with the SE link. Pre was too pretty and the amp a little gritty. Using their balanced connections they sound like AR reference gear, night and day. Makes me want to finish my new speakers! My sources are also SE, but after hearing this I will be rewiring my DAC's OPT for balanced out. I have a pair of 50 footer mic cables, I think I will need to splurge and get some 3 footers rather than keep 150 feet of cable tangled behind the rack. :rofl:
Quote from: BobM on December 12, 2012, 07:30:20 AM
Quote from: rollo on December 12, 2012, 07:16:12 AM
Rich good call on the balanced IC. Going to pick some up very shortly to check out. Always wanted to try balanced from QOL to Amps. Cannot use from preamp as it is single ended only.
charles
That's my problem too - CD player is balanced, amp is balanced, preamp is not, so I can't go that route either. Well, it probably saved me a fortune in recabling too, so I guess I can live with it.
The question now is this. Will using balanced from QOL to Amps have any negative affect if using single ended from CDP to PRE and then to QOL ? Ground loops or anything ?
Richidoo to the rescue.
charles
Well I have no doubt that "The Purple Wires" in xlr would totally their kick ass in a direct comparison, but ignorance is bliss to the cheapskate. They sound clear enough but more importantly they don't add anything like ring, smear or roll off like many low price wires do.
Here's a strange observation for me...
When I switched to the Purple XLRs (JPS SC3) between amp and preamp, it was a very nice improvement over any pair of RCA ICs I had tried. Nervosa to nirvana.
But here's the strange part... Just for giggles, I later tried a no-name brand of XLRs and, while leaving something behind, they sounded far better than I expected. Much less of a difference than I've heard between various RCA ICs in the past. Is there something about the balanced XLR topology that levels the playing field to a greater extent? Hmmm... Likely system (and hearing) dependent, but it made me a believer... once you go balanced, you don't go back.
The one technical difference (though some say it doesn't matter) is that the RCA connector simply can't be 75 ohm due to the layout. XLR can be 110 ohm as designed.
Realistically, the analog 75 ohm isn't that critical like it would be for digital and video.
If the equipment is truly balanced and not just having the connector, you also get a truer signal due to the ability to cancel signal differences between the + and - signal legs.
Bryan
I believe also that in a true balanced topology there is a higher gain with XLR's, and a resulting drop in the noise floor. Plus the topology itself is inherently shielded against ablient RFI and EMR. That's why it is used for long microphone runs and concert monitors and such.
Using the native I/O of the amplifier is the best choice, when possible, because conversion from one signal type to the other introduces problems.
I know Grover changes his cables a lot. But his latest, at lease from 2 months ago are very good. Well balanced and revealing! And always changing!!
The moving target of version-less cables makes it difficult to recommend Grover's cables.
There are several IC's under $100 that are good, but all seem to lack some resolution. The JPS Ultraconductor 2's give up resolution in a way that seems to add musicality back into my system. It relaxes me to listen with these cables rather than exciting me like when I listen with the SC3's. For hundreds less, I prefer to lose a little resolution for the higher enjoyment of music.
If you're into the excitement, the SC3 is the answer.
On the XLR note, I have noticed less differences in cables than with single ended. So, you might be onto something, Mike. I have not compared extensively, though.
Also, it seems half the XLR stuff I've had in my system over the years was 'fake XLR'... where an IC chip sent a signal the XLR connector. I think my C-220 preamp did that.
Rich put XLR's on my DAC (with volume control) so I can run all balanced since my amp is balanced... but I can't run a preamp then... so no tube warmth or image beautification. ;)
In any case, the direct connection is still quite lovely. I may go that way one day.
The best bang for the buck, IMO, are the DH Labs.
But when I decided to go for the best sound from my system its the JPS SC3.
Henry
Yeah Balanced interconnects can really make a difference in some systems, much more so than regular RCA interconnects, this is due to the ability of a balance connection to cancel out and reject any noise that might somehow get mixed into the signal. Many times an inexpensive well made XLR interconnect will outperform a very expensive RCA connector. If you are looking for bang for the buck try XLR connectors you might be very surprised. Most equipment that has balanced connectors might not be truly balanced though, you have to ask the manufacture if that is the case, if not you can still get some benefit from the way the cable is constructed, but not the whole deal.
If you want to try out a inexpensive balanced cable try the Mogami Gold Studio XLR. It is a very neural cable, probably more so than you are used to if you play around with RCA cables to EQ your sound.
In the end trust your ears, not someone else's, and remember more expensive doesn't always equal better.
Some used Black Cats for sale on AC.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112359.msg1165897#msg1165897 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=112359.msg1165897#msg1165897)
OK good microphone wire based balanced ICs will give any exotic cable single ended cable a run for the money.
I believe mdconnelly hit on something here.
charles
Mic wire is designed for audio freqs, whereas some of the coax ICs (like Belden wire used in Blue Jeans) are optimized for RF and don't sound as good as audio-intended wires to me. If you like the pro audio balanced mic cable, just don't ruin it by trying high end balanced cables. :rofl: