i swapped out the Siemens E88CC A-frames for a pair of Pearl Cryovalve JJ Tesla's that Maxwalrath also sent to me when i was lucky enough to buy his 10A from him.the bass tightened up a bit with the Pearl Cryovalves and i think i prefer them by a slight margin in this particular circuit.thanks....WCW III
Quote from: Bunky on July 07, 2007, 06:01:34 PM
i swapped out the Siemens E88CC A-frames for a pair of Pearl Cryovalve JJ Tesla's that Maxwalrath also sent to me when i was lucky enough to buy his 10A from him.the bass tightened up a bit with the Pearl Cryovalves and i think i prefer them by a slight margin in this particular circuit.thanks....WCW III
Thanks for the info Bunky. Siemens is one tube I haven't tried yet. Cryoing seems to also make a difference to my ears.
Sometimes a current tube beats a nos.
I was digging around in my cabinet and came across a quad of NOS Amperex USA 7308 goldpin tubes that were my favorite tube in my Anthem pre 1L preamplifier that was my very 1st tube pre. I took out the Pearl cryovalve JJ 6922's that were in my SAS 10A and rolled in the Amperex USA 7308's. very nice indeed :drool:.thanks....WCW III
Hi Bunky,
What do you think between the two? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Thanks.
Quote from: steve on October 29, 2007, 08:24:07 AM
Hi Bunky,
What do you think between the two? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Thanks.
The Cryo JJ's are really nice but the Amperex 7308's seem to have better Bass.The 7308's were very expensive tubes.The beauty of the 10A besides the performance aspect is that it only uses two tubes so that means i have a set of spare matched and balanced 7308's on hand 8)
Thanks for the info Bunky. Much appreciated.
Steve
Quote from: steve on October 29, 2007, 07:47:35 PM
Thanks for the info Bunky. Much appreciated.
Steve
Hey Steve,
I thought the 10A used the 12a-7 tubes? if it uses the 6922, then have you considered the 6H30? Supposed to be like $20 I don't think it's a direct plug in though.
Ray Bronk
Hi Ray,
As you mentioned the 6H30 won't sub. The 10A can be upped in the bass if one wishes too have it done.
Cheers.
Steve
Quote from: steve on January 18, 2008, 02:19:54 PM
Hi Ray,
As you mentioned the 6H30 won't sub. The 10A can be upped in the bass if one wishes too have it done.
Cheers.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reply. I am starting to look at tube preamps out there, and it's just as confusing as SS gear. I asked because a different manufacturer says that in his tests the 6H30 is a better tube than the 6922. Now, who am I to say different. I honestly in a tube preamp, don't know what to look for. That is I don't want the old tradishional tube sound. I'm not looking for a Carrie sound or a modwrite sound, or a jucy tube sound, or a Rite sound, for that matter any sound but neutral. Just want to have a tube preamp that exhibits the character of what tubes are supposed to have going for them over the Solid State counterparts. Sorry to rant here Steve. But that's where I am. I don't have the wherewithall to go running around to audio stores and listen. So hence the little bit of frustration.
Maybe, you could give me a quick overview of what to search for here.
Thank you for any help or guidance.
Now before anyone gets in to a fit, I am in no way wishing to demeen any of the above manufacturers. . I do know that a lot of the newer tube gear out there sounds a lot better than it used to sound due to people rethinkinb circuit designs and such. I've always been turned off by the idea of tube rolling, because a lot of tube stuff out there is designed for specific tubes. For example, both Jucy and AVA gear kinda discourage tube rolling.
Anyway, that's that.
Regards,
Ray Bronk
i have the belles 21a preamp with the auracap upgrade and uses 12au7 tubes(2). this is great sounding pre.
Hi Ray,
You are not ranting at all Ray. And you are right about all the confusion out there. I design my products differently than the usual. Instead of choosing the so called right tube first and then finding the parts that suppose to fit, I worked for years testing parts and designs, and then found the right tube.
With that said, there an exception or two, such as I wanted a tube that did not need a buffer stage. That one criteria alone put to rest some tube types that had too high of Rp (plate resistance) since the highs would be somewhat sacrificed without an added buffer stage.
I wanted a preamplifier that did not altar or add cosmetics to the sound to "enhance" it. Keep things simple and if someone wants to "enhance" the sound, they can do it with the source, amp, ICs, speakers, or some other brand of preamplifier. My designs are not SS or tubey sounding, but clear, transparent, letting through what is given to it by the source.
Hope this helps Ray.
Steve
Quote from: steve on January 19, 2008, 04:35:59 PM
Hi Ray,
You are not ranting at all Ray. And you are right about all the confusion out there. I design my products differently than the usual. Instead of choosing the so called right tube first and then finding the parts that suppose to fit, I worked for years testing parts and designs, and then found the right tube.
With that said, there an exception or two, such as I wanted a tube that did not need a buffer stage. That one criteria alone put to rest some tube types that had too high of Rp (plate resistance) since the highs would be somewhat sacrificed without an added buffer stage.
I wanted a preamplifier that did not altar or add cosmetics to the sound to "enhance" it. Keep things simple and if someone wants to "enhance" the sound, they can do it with the source, amp, ICs, speakers, or some other brand of preamplifier. My designs are not SS or tubey sounding, but clear, transparent, letting through what is given to it by the source.
Hope this helps Ray.
Steve
Hi Steve,
In your tube search, did you consider the 12B4A? There's a whole thread on building a preamp around this tube. Unfortunately, its PSRR is 0. So what supply you feed it with has! to be as clean as possible. So much for hijaxing this thread.
Ray
Hi Ray,
More things to consider when contemplating a tube. I could use it, but there are several issues to consider.
1) Availability of the tube. Quantity, can one get it over time?
2) What parts would I have to change that I am currently using. Special order parts?
3) How will the tube sound in the design?
I see the 12 volt version is much less expensive than the 6 volt version. Still why change tubes when no one can tell when my pre is in or out of the system (Must be careful controlled listening tests to validate that claim) and the tubes are manufactured today, inexpensive, and readily available. I am looking for transparency and accuracy in my designs. It isn't going to get anymore accurate than what I am using right now.
I guess in other wards Ray, don't get hung up on certain tube types because Joe Blow says so. Most of those type of claims are either made because of one's personal experience without substantial testing protocal, or simply hype.
Cheers Ray.
Steve
Quote from: steve on January 20, 2008, 11:44:48 AM
Hi Ray,
More things to consider when contemplating a tube. I could use it, but there are several issues to consider.
1) Availability of the tube. Quantity, can one get it over time?
2) What parts would I have to change that I am currently using. Special order parts?
3) How will the tube sound in the design?
I see the 12 volt version is much less expensive than the 6 volt version. Still why change tubes when no one can tell when my pre is in or out of the system (Must be careful controlled listening tests to validate that claim) and the tubes are manufactured today, inexpensive, and readily available. I am looking for transparency and accuracy in my designs. It isn't going to get anymore accurate than what I am using right now.
I guess in other wards Ray, don't get hung up on certain tube types because Joe Blow says so. Most of those type of claims are either made because of one's personal experience without substantial testing protocal, or simply hype to push sales.
Cheers Ray.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Those 12B4 Jan model is about $10 each.
The only problem with your 11A is its $2800 bucks. Out of range for most people. That's why your 7A looks to be pretty attractive. No offense here. i only mentioned the 12B4 because of your circuit design for the power supply.
Ray
"Hi Steve,
Those 12B4 Jan model is about $10 each.
The only problem with your 11A is its $2800 bucks. Out of range for most people. That's why your 7A looks to be pretty attractive. No offense here. i only mentioned the 12B4 because of your circuit design for the power supply.
Ray"
Quite alright Ray. Yes, $2800.00 is not cheap but then it is doing quite well against the 5 digit preamps.
Take care.
Steve
11A is same league as AR Ref, VAC, VTL. You feel it wash though you, it's not just a sound. When you get into this class, preamp becomes the most important piece in the system, not just a volume control. You can feel its presence even with less than transparent amps and speakers. I fought it long and hard, but have finally surrendered to the god of preamp magic. I hope one falls out of heaven now. haha
Steve says it doesn't color the sound, very true, but compared to straight wire it makes a great improvement. Still colorless, but presence and immediacy is very palpable. IT'S ALIIIIIVE! :D
Rich
Quote from: richidoo on January 22, 2008, 05:45:01 PM
11A is same league as AR Ref, VAC, VTL. You feel it wash though you, it's not just a sound. When you get into this class, preamp becomes the most important piece in the system, not just a volume control. You can feel its presence even with less than transparent amps and speakers. I fought it long and hard, but have finally surrendered to the god of preamp magic. I hope one falls out of heaven now. haha
Steve says it doesn't color the sound, very true, but compared to straight wire it makes a great improvement. Still colorless, but presence and immediacy is very palpable. IT'S ALIIIIIVE! :D
Rich
Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.
Ray
The 11A really is exceptional and i had one in my tube powered rig for a few weeks. The 10A is a very neutral and musical tube linestage and a unbelievable value when you look at the cost Vs performance aspect. I could easily afford a more expensive preamp but the 10A is so nice i figure why bother ? thanks....WCW III
Very similiar to C.A.T. but for a lot less money. This 11A will sing with a warm or dark tube amp. Great synergy. Try one with a CJ amp or 300B, 211, 2A3 or similiar based amps. Killer IMO.
rollo
Hi Rollo,
Didn't know you got to hear one. Also sounds surperb with the Belles new reference 350 ss amp, Monarchy se250, Mono Extremes, Dussan (amp section), and other ss amps as well as with PP tube amps. Pretty versatile and neutral/transparent.
Quote from: Ray Bronk on January 22, 2008, 06:05:09 PM
Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.
Ray
There's a slew of preamps in that range... modified, tweaky, obscure, and mainstream... Once you get over 2,k the options seem endless. I hope Hugh's doing well... I had a great time with him at RMAF.
Quote from: Carlman on January 25, 2008, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: Ray Bronk on January 22, 2008, 06:05:09 PM
Maybe, someday, when I have the moola, I will get one of them 11A's. Also, in that same price bracket is the one from Hugh Dean.
Ray
There's a slew of preamps in that range... modified, tweaky, obscure, and mainstream... Once you get over 2,k the options seem endless. I hope Hugh's doing well... I had a great time with him at RMAF.
Hi, I was thinking about the Aspen preamps that Hugh Deanm from Australia makes.
Ray
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph... :duh
Quote from: Carlman on January 25, 2008, 07:03:50 PM
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph... :duh
Hi, Well, now that I've hijacked this thread momentarily, ... I wonder what the differences in sound between the SAS 11A and the Swift Preamp is? Thanks Steve.
Ray
Quote from: Ray Bronk on January 26, 2008, 12:03:21 AM
Quote from: Carlman on January 25, 2008, 07:03:50 PM
yeah, me too... same guy.. I had separate thoughts and put them all in one paragraph... :duh
Hi, Well, now that I've hijacked this thread momentarily, ... I wonder what the differences in sound between the SAS 11A and the Swift Preamp is? Thanks Steve.
Ray
Hi Ray,
You mean the GK1 preamp? If so, I doubt it. The distortion is fairly high, the FR is quite poor.
Distortion is -42db down 2nd harmonic vs approx -74db for either the 10A or 11A
-3db down at 15hz and 80khz vs approx -.1db down at 20hz and approx -1db down at 110khz (100pf load) for either the 10A or 11A.
The former stat, -3db at 15hz is particularly troublesome as using parts to artifically boost the lows also means a boost into the midrange sonics.
Gotta go.
Steve
Since I haven't heard it, I can't really comment... just speculate. ;)
I probably should have started a new string concerning specs, but since it was asked. There is an old saying that if the specs measure good, the sound can be good or poor, but if the specs are poor, the sound suffers or is never optimum. One can kinda get away with some specs, but FR is pretty important. Even 1% distortion (-40db) seems high.
Based on decades of experience and testing, there are sonic problems especially associated with FR deviations. Since the signal is down approx -3db, an accurate output would also be down that amount. So if the bass seems sufficient, the actual design itself is not the problem, but the parts, solder etc selection.
"Boosting" the sound in the bass region with parts etc, to fill out the sound, is not an accurate boost since the parts have different characteristics than an actual string/electric bass, cello etc and has different characteristics.
For example, the winding construction, DA, DF, termination, etc affects the sound of a capacitor, with some capacitors artificially excentuating the bass. This can easily be demonstrated by using an electrolytic or even mylar capacitor in the circuit design.
However, the distortion/bloating of the bass is not limited to just the bass region. It also occurs throughout the bandwidth that the inferior capacitor has to handle. So the upper bass, lower mids, mids etc are also affected, and distorted.
A little story. I have heard old amps/preamps using electrolytics that sound relatively thin because of the use of small coupling caps to minipulate the mids, but then the bass suddenly whops one over the head because it is so fat/bloated/distorted. All because of the electrolytic cap(s) in the circuit.
Anyway, one can tell at a moments internal peek, either of specs or peeking inside, if there are design/parts problems or not.
Hope this helps.
Hi Steve,
I am a newbie in this forum and have read your threads and like very much your theory of building a good tube preamp since I am a tube gear fan too. I have a strange question about the substitution of 6922 tube which are PCC 189. So far I heard only one of my friend he replaced the 6922s in his AN DAC with PCC189. Have you considered to try the PCC189 in your SAS preamp yet? I also heard someone said in another forum that you can not directly substituted PCC189 for 6922, is that true? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Tan
Quote from: tanchiro58 on January 28, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
Hi Steve,
I am a newbie in this forum and have read your threads and like very much your theory of building a good tube preamp since I am a tube gear fan too. I have a strange question about the substitution of 6922 tube which are PCC 189. So far I heard only one of my friend he replaced the 6922s in his AN DAC with PCC189. Have you considered to try the PCC189 in your SAS preamp yet? I also heard someone said in another forum that you can not directly substituted PCC189 for 6922, is that true? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Tan
Hi Tan,
Unfortunately, the PCC 189 will not work as the heater voltage required is 7.6 volts whereas the 6922 is 6.3 volts. The cathode just won't heat enough. With respect to the 10A, don't get hung up on a particular tube. The design makes ALL the difference.
Take care and thanks for the question Tan.
Steve