Hi Guys
In another thread I mentioned how impressed I was with a heavily upgraded Leak I heard (see attached pickie).
Got one myself and thought it might be interesting documenting my experiences upgrading it here.
Got some supposed gun valves from a real valve aficionado - they are supposed the bee knees - don't know too much myself - hopefully some here can :
3 - 1950s /60s NOS new in box Siemens 5751= E83CC / 12AX7 / ECC83 Triple Mica Tubes.
3 - 1950s /60s NOS new in box Siemens 5814A =E82CC / 12Au7 / ECC82 Triple Mica Tubes.
4 - 1950s /60s NOS Mullard EL84 Tubes.
1 -1950s/60s NOS Mullard GZ34 Tube.
Can report what they do when I get a bit of time. At the moment the power chord that came with the Leak needs to have an Australian plug to work.
Thanks
Bill
Looking good there Bill. Some nice tubes as well. I see lots of Duelunds in there buddy. Good listening my friend.
charles
Looking real good :drool:
Very clean work inside.
Quote from: Response Audio on December 13, 2013, 01:16:46 PM
Looking real good :drool:
Very clean work inside.
Especially if it was hooked up to one of your preamps oh my ! But but Bill does not use a preamp, bad boy he is.
charles
Hi Guys
Heard the Leak for the first time yesterday.
With the supplied tubes one of the best valve amps I have heard - but, as you would expect, not up there with the the heavily modified one I head at the GTG that so impressed me. Lovely sound - but speed was the issue in comparison to the Arion 500's.
Changed to the better valves. Instantly better - a lot closer to the one at the GTG - but still not quite there yet. Cleaner and clearer - but again speed didn't quite match the Arion.
Decided to use Duelund VSF Copper because I don't think the Cast will fit, and have ordered them. When they arrive will get them installed and have the resistors upgraded and the electrolytics changed probably to Jenson, then see what that does.
Very promising so far.
Thanks
Bill
Quote from: rollo on December 14, 2013, 08:34:43 AMEspecially if it was hooked up to one of your preamps oh my ! But but Bill does not use a preamp, bad boy he is.
I really am a naughty boy - can I be diciplined - please - please :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:.
Seriously I have a new DAC on order called the Killer that has a valve output stage that is the perfect match for the Leak. The input sensitivity of the Leak will be adjusted to match.
This is a very special DAC, using the legendary Phillips Double Crown chips, and people have been waiting a long time for me to get mine. Those into this DAC generally prefer valve gear and are a lot happier with the Leak being used with it than my usual Arions.
Of course I will try it with both.
Thanks
Bill
Quote from: Response Audio on December 13, 2013, 01:16:46 PMLooking real good :drool:Very clean work inside.
Yea - great looking work.
But I didn't make it clear - this is a picture of the upgraded Leak I heard that impressed me so greatly.
I hope to bring mine up to that standard - maybe even beyond - time will tell.
Thanks
Bill
Good Luck, Bill! It should really sound great when you're done with it! :thumb:
Enjoy!
Pete
Is something leaking around here. Curious minds need to know.
charles
Quote from: rollo on December 21, 2013, 07:56:58 AMIs something leaking around here. Curious minds need to know.
Good one.
Ordered the VSF Copper to replace the .25 coupling caps to the output valves, and Jensons for the power supply electrolytics from the local Duelund dealer.
Had a chat to the guys whose upgraded Leaks I heard, and they said they used whatever they had lying around such as Allen Bradleys for the resistors and Duelund Alexanders for some of the coupling caps.
I don't have parts lying around so decided on a more scientific approach. Had a look at the circuit diagram and removed the grid resistor into the input valve because it will be replaced by a pad to adjust sensitivity. This left some 10k resistors in the signal path at the output valve grids and after the coupling caps - am getting the best resistor I know for that - naked Z-Foils. The rest will be 2 watt Amtrans carbon films.
Here is an interesting comparison between the two:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/190095-resistor-test-tx7525-amrg-cmf55.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/190095-resistor-test-tx7525-amrg-cmf55.html)
The Z-Foil sounds really open. Big bass sound, the strings of my stratocaster seemed to come out more out of the speakers, very good separation of the single string, rich in detail, reminded to a piece of wire. They have the tendency not to make sound. On the other hand, they are the most technically sounding resistors. At some cathodes I liked these most, but not at all places. As always a matter of taste.
These black beauties (Amtrans) sounded very open, airy with a little sweet touch, in a musical sense wonderful, but a little sound making. Big bass too. At some places I loved these most, but not everywhere.
I was told an interstage .1uf coupling capacitor wasn't that critical so decided on an Obligato Gold rather than the whole hog of a Duelund. The 50uf electrolytic bypass capacitors will use Jensens - but may switch to film if space permits.
Small capacitors will be silver mica's.
Will get some high end wire from a local speaker maker that he wires all his speakers with and change terminals etc to Eichmann.
Anyway that's it for now.
Have to wait for the parts to arrive for the new amp to take shape. Since its Christmas no use ordering now anyway - will wait for the New Year.
But this is only a start - I have been by those really into it its a never ending process.
Thanks
Bill
Someone has been a busy Bee. Sounds good Bill. Bill if ya did not order the Eichmans yet please consider Furutech or Vampire Xshadow. No plastic parts. The Vampires are the Cats meow.
The Z-Foils are neutral alright. Maybe a tad thin in certain locations as you know.
As far as speaker cable I think its time to send you a pair to play with. I used the copper foil from our buddy until the others came along. No turning back.
Looks like its fun fun fun for ya. Cool stuff.
charles
Quote from: rollo on December 22, 2013, 07:03:54 AMBill if ya did not order the Eichmans yet please consider Furutech or Vampire Xshadow. No plastic parts. The Vampires are the Cats meow.
Yea - some guys have been telling me about those and some other stuff has a slight edge over the Eichmann.
Thing is Eichmann is a local outfit having their factory here in Brisbane at Coorparoo. Because of that they are a dead cinch to get a hold of where I am.
What I thought was to use them as a start and take it from there.
Thanks
Bill
I agree about Furutech or Xhadow over Eichmann. Eichmann plugs are ok but the ground connection is far too small, it's best to minimize resistance in the grounds...
Interstage coupling caps make a pretty big difference, if you don't want to spring for Duelunds I would go with another copper foil cap. I am using RelCap PCUs and am very happy with them.
For wire, of course I think Neotech and Duelund are tops... ;)
Quote from: DaveC on December 22, 2013, 08:12:42 PMInterstage coupling caps make a pretty big difference,
They certainly do.
Its just to start with in that spot - will see if Duelunds there make a big enough difference to be worth it later - along with lot of other stuff.
Interesting times ahead.
Thanks
Bill
Hi Guys
Well the first stage of my Leak upgrade has been finished.
This was everything except the power supply electrolytics which will be replaced with Jensens, and the interstage coupling caps that are Russian Paper In Oil at the moment but will be changed to Duelund VSF Copper.
This is one fine sounding amp. It's very transparent an neutral.
I compared it to an upgraded Prima Luna and my initial reaction was the Leak was slightly more neutral and fluid, the Prima Luna Luna slightly more lively and sweet. The Leak did it for me just a bit better. But a lot more listening will be required.
Thanks
Bill
Bill have you given any consideration to the tube used when deciding on coupling cap ?
I have found that the character of the tube kinda dictates the cap choice.
For example when we use an RCA 211 the coupling cap chosen was an Auri T Teflon over Duelund CAST. Just to warm with Duelund. however when tube switched to GE 211 the Duelund was King. Same or input cap selection.
You may consider some Teflon caps in the power supply over PIO. Very open with powerful dynamics.
BTW the only amp for me besides my modded Arions are the Lamm 2.1 mono blocks. After the Lamm the search just stops. however the fun of tweaking stops as well, just no need to change a thing.
Next up we need to get you to try some dipoles in lieu of the box design. Either Analysis, GTAudio Works or BG Radia. The Lenehans are good but compared to the the others no contest.
The panel speakers change the game a bit.
charles
Hi Guys
Its been a long wait but finally the last stages of the upgrade with the Duelunds and main power supply caps changed to Jensons is over.
Well the guy who did the last upgrades just contacted me after he completed it and heard it.
It evidently sounds AWESOME.
Can report more tomorrow when I pick it up.
However this guy knows the Arions very well and he thinks it has the edge - so we may another one besides the Lamm - and it certainly is a lot cheaper.
As far as the valves go I went with what the valve guru out our way suggested. He is also a Duelund aficionado and likes the Duelunds.
I think it was mentioned though the new Duelund RF capacitors were used. Couldn't find any info about them though - suspect they are the new Back line which is supposed to be halfway between the VSF and Cast.
All up cost for this amp was about $4k, and even before the latest upgrade it was excellent value IMHO.
Thanks
Bill
I would suspect that the Leak is a fine candidate for cap changes as it is a world class circuit.
I just cannot imagine though that its limited power can drive your Lenehans properly. You will soon find out.
Been fooling with the Arions. Replaced that Solen cap [ .10] on the input board and changed out the choke to a Lundahl. Removed top plate as well. Sounds more open with top off. Having a plexiglass cover with hole for tube made instead of Alum. plate.
Not much else to mod. BTW have you tried the XLR outputs on the Arion ? Makes a good difference. They also love JPS SC-3 ICs and speaker cable. Heads and heels above the Ribbontek from Lenehan. Actually Triode wire Labs Spirit ICs are quite good bettering the Ribbonteks.
What tube are you using in the Arion ? NOS Reflector 6H30 are the bomb. Makes the Sovtek sound broken in direct comparison.
Anyways I hope the Leak does it better for you especially after $4000, oh my ! ENJOY !
charles
Charles, have that top cover made out Lexan polycarbonate instead. Plexiglas has a marked tendency to fracture at the holes where the screws go through to secure it to the amplifier.
Scotty
Quote from: _Scotty_ on April 30, 2014, 09:13:45 AM
Charles, have that top cover made out Lexan polycarbonate instead. Plexiglas has a marked tendency to fracture at the holes where the screws go through to secure it to the amplifier.
Scotty
Thanks Scotty. Will do.
charles
Ah yes - the cost.
From my viewpoint not much risk - they are evidently very collectable and have a good resale value.
BTW its not that my Arions don't do it for me - its just the Leak has this something about it that impressed everyone that heard it.
You would think it wouldn't bring the Lenehans to life. Me and Lonewolfny (Chris) used to chat about the amp power thing all the time.
Surprise surprise, take my word for it - no problem at all getting decent volume - but I don't play anything to stretch it - mostly Dianna Krall etc etc.
Well I heard it - very good - no BS here - it did sound AWESOME. Didn't have a chance to fire up the Arions, but checked it out against an upgraded Prima Luna with Jensen electrolytics and Jupiter beeswax.
A bit raw - which you would expect with heaps of new non burnt in parts such as Jensen electrolytics everywhere.
The Duelunds were RS - not RF. They are evidently the replacement for the VSF copper which is supposedly being phased out - it is considered better than the VSF, closer to the Cast - but strangely cheaper. I personally prefer the Cast, but some like the VSF. I am happy with them - but it may disappoint the VSF brigade - evidently I got some of the first newly phased in VSF replacements.
It has a very immediate and in your face sound. Compared to the Prima, the Prima was cleaner and clearer, better yes, not by a lot - but I would say better - still hard to say what it will be like once burned in. I suspect it will eventually outshine the Prima, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
What I did was take it over to the person that owns the original Leaks place (he posts as Rawl out here) to compare to his upgraded Leak. Clearly his amp was better - but had MANY more hours on it. Still you could hear a family character. It also became clear my amp had much greater gain that needed to be tamed - a pad will be put on the input and the valves changed to lower gain types.
While over there I had a chat to the person that provided the valves, and evidently there is a GTG down in Canberra (the capital here in Aus) soon that will have a lot of upgraded Leaks. I can't make it down there but Rawl is going. He will be taking his Leak down and people will be experimenting with different valves, etc to see which is best.
Anyway that's where it stands now.
Its going to be a drawn out process getting this just right.
Thanks
Bill
Check out all the upgraded Leaks
Thanks
Bill
Beware the leaky deuland caps!
Bunch of failures out there...perhaps a faulty run of caps?
I only read about one leaky Dueland on Audiogon. Leaking around where the wire exists the body. If you read the Dueland website it says they have oil impregnated paper as the dielectric, so it shouldn't be a can full of loose oil.
Another rumor has it that they are experimenting with a new cap that usses wax, like the Jupiters.
Good stuff Bill. The valve options should prove interesting with upgraded caps. I think that the tube/cap combo is the whole enchalada, not just the cap.
Bees wax is good however can not take to much heat. It can melt. Be careful where they are located.
Sounds like a fun day to be had by all. It will be interesting to read the results.
charles
Hi Charles and of course anyone else interested
The latest is at that GTG with all those Leaks some experimentation was done and a number of Leaks took a bit of a leap (mine was one of them) from a small piece of what these guys called Holey Wire is an appropriate place.
I also got the terminals, speaker and RCA replaced by Eichmann. The guy that did it also experimented with various resistors to drop the amps sensitivity and I think he chose some Shinkoh he had for that. He also mentioned he may have done some further tweaks but can't recall what they were.
Anyway with all these changes it has taken a big leap - a certain resolute edginess it had is now gone.
The next big step is it needs to be burnt in so I contacted the valve guru out our way who got me some nice, but cheaper valves, for that. I have it in my system right now with those cheaper valves and it recently took a big leap forward at about 250 hours - the bass is now very deep and rich and seems to be improving all the time - as well as naturalness and smotheness.
I used some Obligato as a stop gap measure in a less critical coupling capacitor position. But with the release of the Jupiter copper have decided to use that and ordered two that will be put in when they arrive.
The Duelunds were the new RS type that replaced the VSF copper and many think its a bit above the VSF.
Once the Jupiter's are in it will be fully tweaked out and after a bit more burning in will put the uber tubes in and see how it sounds.
Will likely have a GTG comparing it to my Arions, Prima Luna's.
I think I may have mentioned out our way amp preferences have split a bit - some prefer the Arions - some the Prima Luna - I am in the Prima Camp - but haven't sold my Arions yet.
Thanks
Bill