Hey guys, i am the 1st one to get the 11A.i just recieved new power triodes for the VK 60 and the Amp now displays even more punch than when i first recieved it with several year old power tubes.i used Audio Art Silver over copper IC3's between my HRAM modded stage 3+ Jolida jd100A and the SAS 11A and Steves" V" IC's made with Vampire connectors and Cryoed Jena labs wire between the 11A and the BAT VK 60 tube amplifier. i used my Scanspeak driver equipped Odyssey Lorelei's for the transducers in this review. i used a Jena Labs power cord that Steve Sammet had sent along for the tour on the 11A and a Signal Cable magic power cord on the VK 60 and a Signal Magic power digital reference power cord on the modded JD 100A and a pair of Audio Art silver over copper SC5 speaker cables between the VK 60 and the Lorelei's.I am a big fan of neutral preamplifiers and i already own a recently upgraded SAS 10A so i am familiar with the the SAS house sound.the 11A is as close to a straight wire with Gain as any preamp that i have ever listened to. it was dead quiet in my two channel tube rig and seemed to be very transparent and true to the source. in my rig it played extremely clean but never sounded etched or clinical. it seemed to draw me further into the music and made for some very lively listening.Good recordings sound phenominal thru the 11A. with bad recordings,well they were not sugar coated by the 11A and sounded bad as they should with a uncolored preamp.Larry Carltons Saphire Blue CD was a truely remarkable sounding recording thru the 11A and if anyone on the tour has it by all means check it out! i dont use flowery terms to explain how gear sounds but i know what i like when i hear it. the 10A is a Great preamplifier but the 11A is even more refined and lets you hear the pure unadulterated music in all of it's Glory. i would like to thank Steve and Carlman for making this 11A tour a reality....WCW III
Thanks, Bunky :clap:
Thinking out loud here, I think what I will do when it's my turn, is the following:
1) Choose maybe (3) reference tracks and listen on my pre-amp 'as-is' to 'condition' my ears.*
2) Repeat those tracks but with Steve's cable and cord on 'my' pre-amp to determine wire differences.*
3) Repeat those tracks with Steve's 11A; cable; and cord.*
4) Repeat those tracks with the 11A and 'my' cables and cord.*
5) Repeat those tracks s/a #3*
6) Repeat those tracks s/a #1*
*write down any observations
7) Choose (3) different tracks and just listen with Steve's gear
8) s/a #7 but with my gear
9) Write review :?
Shoot holes in my method y'all. I am open to suggestions. Steve????
WEEZ
Hi Gents,
First off, I would like to thank Bunky for taking the time and efforts to audition the 11A. It is much appreciated. I will look for a copy of Larry Carltons Saphire Blue CD. Sounds like a great cd.
You hit the nail on the head. If the recording is great, the music is simply phenominal. The last vestages of fog seems to disappear.
I probably should have mentioned this earlier, as the low end response is particularly subject to room interactions; but when testing the low end I use both string bass and piano. Piano is particularly good as multiple notes can often times become congested if the recording or playback system over emphasizes bass. The bass control, the knob, can adjust leaner or bass heavy to correct minor problems in this area.
------------------
Hi Weez,
I see no problem with your scenario. I don't know if you treat any cds but I included the Stereophile CD3, which is treated to minimize harshness etc. Track 10 is 'soundstaging' and is spectacular if you decide to check it out.
Might not be a bad idea, maybe when just relaxing, to check out different types of music. It does not seem to matter what kind, whether jazz, classical, opera :rofl:, or other types.
Take care and thanks.
Just wanted to say thanks to Bunky for being so considerate and responsive by posting a review while still 'fresh' in his mind and contacting the next person on the tour... We're off to a great start. I will do my best to keep it up!
-Carl
Quick question. How many on the tour use products to enhance their CDs? Something like Auric Illuminator etc. This info will help me with some important information.
Thanks guys.
Nope.
Maybe I am getting things too complicated. I wanted to see if anyone wanted to compare treated to untreated. (I am always experimenting.)
It was just a thought.
All of my music is ripped to a hard drive which does error correction... So, cd treatments shouldn't have any impact for me...
I have a CD player, steve, so I will be try compare your two CDs for kicks. I am still getting settled in with 11A, I have had it playing a couple hours, learning how changing the switches and knobs affect the sound. Thanks Bunky for reminding me about those! I hope to be able to dial it in to my tone preference tomorrow and then dig in! I can say already that the preamp is brightening the colors beautifully and adding a lot of life to the music.
Rich
Hi Rich,
Both CDs I sent are treated. Maybe we shouldn't as it does takes alot of time and is a hassle to make copies and test treated vs untreated. Sometimes I get too hyped when it comes to experimenting.
That is cool Carl, playing music from a harddrive.
Quote from: steve on August 21, 2007, 06:55:43 AM
Sometimes I get too hyped when it comes to experimenting.
It happens... :rofl:
Hey, no hype, no care, no experiments, no 11A! I think your hype level is just right based on what I'm hearing right now! :)
Anyone who has signed up to Audition the SAS 11A during the ongoing tour and has spent time with it should post their reviews right here in this 11A review thread that i was instructed to start at the begining of the tour ! thanks....WCW III
agreed.......
Nice work Steve....the 11A is one sharp preamp !! 8)
I thoroughly enjoyed my one week audition with the SAS Audio 11A !!!
Thanks to both Steve and Carl for the chance to hear it in my system,
and to audition it at the NYAR meeting.
First....some Raver comments :
topround... "The new SAS 11 preamp was excellent, I really liked the way that sounded, alot."
Hogg...."The star of the show for me in the upstairs room was the SAS 11A preamp. This is a fabulous preamp. It was very quiet, worked well with all of the amps and allowed the music to take on the signature of the amp and speakers."
At the Rave, the 11A was paired with a few different amps...AKSA 100N+, B.E.L. 1001, and Greg Ball SKA 150. With each change, the "sound" of each amp clearly came through...nothing added...very neutral.
The look....fit and finish....the feel...top notch.
At home, in my system, I tried it with a few more amps...the AKSA Lifeforce, Butler 2250, Red Wine Audio Sig.30, and the KR Audio Antares VA320. In each case....same result...the difference between the amps was plain as day....nothing added....a straight line stage....no coloration....and very quiet.
Now I did not compare it to the other preamp's that I own...my focus was on how it performed with a variety of many different amps...to see if it favored one type. The answer....no...it worked great with everything I matched it with....nice !!!
Did I have a favorite combo ? Yes....two in fact. At the Rave....the B.E.L. amp with the 11A...at home...the KR Audio with the 11A. Yes...one SS, the other tubes...great presentations from both.
Not long ago, I had the SAS 10A to audition...that I compared to my Modwright SWL 9.0 and Juicy Music Blueberry. It performed better than the Blueberry and on par with the Modwright. The 11A....IMO...is a welcome addition, and a nice step up from the 10A.
Another point....5 inputs .... monitor jacks.... AC line polarity switch....variable bass control....high frequency switch...a lot of things covered....so its very flexible in any situation. Some have mention..."oh, no remote"....I didn't find that a problem at all....the dual volume controls worked "smooth as butter".
When I listen, I'm not changing the volume...and how hard is it to get up out of one's chair for a second. :lol:
My conclusion.....I LIKED IT !!!!
And having the ability to audition the 11A in one's home system was very nice !!!
Good luck Steve....great job !!!!!!!!
......................Chris
Thanks Chris (and everyone) for all your efforts and time. Much appreciated. After all the comments so far, here and at AC, I think a minor tweek maybe helpful to some.
I posted I would wait in the "tour section", to aske a question, but I will ask it now.
I can make an easy mod and extend just the bass control range/adjustment over what it presently is. In otherwards, one could increase the low end (by the bass control) even more than it is now if one wants (and fill the midrange more as well) to accomodate even more variance in individual systems.
And yet still be able to adjust the control for the transparent sound it presently has. It seems more would like to increase the bass (and mid foundation) more than is presently available, for their individual systems. Am I correct in this?
But I would need to ask Dangerbird to send it back and I would reimburse him for shipping costs of course.
-----------
Lastly, Chris nailed the concept. Nice work. With the preamp as a 'transparent' foundation, the amps/speakers, and source can now be chosen for the type of sound one wants. So many if not almost all can tailor to there individual likings.
For instance, Barry T of Memphis uses the Welbourne DRD Terraplane 300b SET amp. Others may prefer push pull tube or solid state amps. One could even modify their amps, speakers, source, and not have to worry about colorations/distortions the preamp might introduce to muck things up.
And matching 3 components is alot easier than 4. Matching amps to speakers and the source to one's liking will be easier without worrying about the preamp. In fact, one does not have to worry about the source load changing (when testing different source players) since the preamp is the foundation, a constant.
Of course different amps have different input Zs which affect bass response in capacitively coupled preamps. The preamp adustment compensates for this, and for individual tastes if one prefers to accentuate the bass, or a mellow sound.
Thanks again Chris.
Steve
What is the contour of the bass control? What other ways could this be done? I think it's a great idea.
Thanks for the quick response. What I mean is what frequencies/slope are involved. Is it a 60 - 200 hz, 6 db/octave slope, could it be ordered with a custom contour?
My room is a giant bass sucker. I have huge bass power from 20 hz - 70 hz with a full parametric EQ and pro amp, so I'm good there. From 70 - 200 hz the mains take over and there's a suckout in my room in that range.
Having played with various room EQ solutions, I really believe in this idea - especially in the bass. I don't need any technical information, rather just an explanation of the effect.
Thanks
Hi Mik,
I won't mention any of my design, but that the controls are partly responsible for minimizing any digititis the dac/player might present. But even set neutral, digititis has not been mentioned in the reviews, and PMs I have received, as a problem. (Of course TT might be better.)
As you mentioned in your review of the Lessloss, there are designs that seem to minimize or eliminate the problem of digititis.
"Point? The Lessloss 2004 DAC is a mightily ambitious product yet remains coherent and never strays into classic digititis."
"Treble performance is excellent, with shimmer, sparkle and fireworks. However, in my system it did occasionally show elements of hardness that I associate with digititis. How bad? Not bad at all. In fact, upper frequencies are presented exceptionally well. Why bring it up then?"
"Honestly however, treble performance of the Lessloss 2004 DAC is outstanding. Integration with the whole allows a relaxing yet highly resolved portal to the recording. The usual complaints about digital treble are minimized to such a degree that I would be very surprised if anyone shopping in this price bracket would find fault with it."
What might also help mik, even more, is bypassing the analog/mute sections. I can see your concern of older dacs/players though when you stated:
"What I'm saying is that either so-called neutral systems do not recover the rich, organic flow of music, or that this character does not survive digitization and has to be infused at the playback side."
But I think this may be a mute point with the Altmann, Lessloss, other improved designs, or simply bypassing the analog stages in the dac/player.
Hope this helps.
One of the principles of loudspeaker design that I have heard is that high frequencies and low frequencies should be somewhat proportional. As extension and energy increases on one side of the ledger, it must be balanced at the other. Otherwise, a bloated presentation without upper sparkle or a "hot" presentation without adequate bass fill will result.
This balance obviously does not make the speaker, but it does explain some aberrant behaviors.
With this in mind, it makes sense that bumping the bass a bit would comparatively reduce the presence of the high frequencies where most digital problems reside.
Yep, the Altmann and Lessloss are both terrific at taming digital harshness.
Hi Mik,
Yes, I have great sound from either dac or tt without having to adjust the speakers specifically to either. Of course a speaker won't totally correct a digititis problem, the glassy sound. One has to do more than that.
Take care.
I think it's a great feature and one that should be used more in commercial offerings. Also, an adjustable (or even fixed) high-pass filtered output is a great thing - especially for us hi-eff guys.
"Also, an adjustable (or even fixed) high-pass filtered output is a great thing"
Got it as well. Also, just in case one has a hot tweeter or one is sensitive to highs, as well. (Lonewolf's review page 1).
"Another point....5 inputs .... monitor jacks.... AC line polarity switch....variable bass control....high frequency switch...a lot of things covered....so its very flexible in any situation."
But even without, I am coming to find that digital is pretty darn good (no mention in the reviews of digititis with different systems). I would not have said that about digital a couple of years ago. By the way, treating CDs is very important to relax the sound. That and eliminating the cheap analog gainstages in the players/dac that can cause harshness, and cause problems with the tonal balance.
"I think it's a great feature and one that should be used more in commercial offerings."
Unfortunately, these days, most "designers/manufacturers" simply copy someone elses design, or part thereof; so one does not see much new.
My interest is perking. A line polarity switch is very smart. I have so many recordings that require its use. Brilliant! Flexible it is.
rollo
Quote from: rollo on October 17, 2007, 05:22:48 AM
My interest is perking. A line polarity switch is very smart. I have so many recordings that require its use. Brilliant! Flexible it is.
rollo
Hi Rollo,
Actually, it is an AC power line polarity switch. I am wondering if you mean a signal polarity switch? Sorry for any confusion Rollo.
Steve
Quote from: steve on October 17, 2007, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: rollo on October 17, 2007, 05:22:48 AM
My interest is perking. A line polarity switch is very smart. I have so many recordings that require its use. Brilliant! Flexible it is.
rollo
Hi Rollo,
Actually, it is an AC power line polarity switch. I am wondering if you mean a signal polarity switch? Sorry for any confusion Rollo.
Steve
steve,
Yes I thought signal poarity switch. However Power line polarity switch is a good thing as well.
rollo
Quote from: rollo on October 17, 2007, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: steve on October 17, 2007, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: rollo on October 17, 2007, 05:22:48 AM
My interest is perking. A line polarity switch is very smart. I have so many recordings that require its use. Brilliant! Flexible it is.
rollo
Hi Rollo,
Actually, it is an AC power line polarity switch. I am wondering if you mean a signal polarity switch? Sorry for any confusion Rollo.
Steve
steve,
Yes I thought signal poarity switch. However Power line polarity switch is a good thing as well.
rollo
Your right Rollo, it can cause a "hardening" of the sound, a lack of relaxation I guess one could call it.
Dear Guys,
I am officially ending the tour, as overall I have had great reviews. I thank all those for their time and efforts. The touring 11A and for sale on my "Specials" page.
Take care and thanks again Gents.
Steve