To go with the MG10/QR DSP Crossover project, worked with folks to develop a modular 8in Servo Sub OB H-Frame 4x8 stack. These are for the GR-Research 8in servo subs from the latest design. These will work below the 80Hz cutoff of the planars down to 30Hz.
These are the flat packs being test fitted before glue-up and then off to be painted.
Getting them ready for CAF2023.
Hi Rich,
Danny is selling 8" servo kits now? Are you going to use the same painter? Your last ones looked very good
Nick
Quote from: Nick B on September 22, 2023, 09:29:15 PM
Hi Rich,
Danny is selling 8" servo kits now? Are you going to use the same painter? Your last ones looked very good
Nick
Nick,
Danny has 8in servo drivers in stock. I am planning to take these to my painter and get them finished in Hot Rod Black as before.
Problem is that only the A370PEQ and A370XLR2 servo amps seem to be in stock, not the HX300 or HX400 Class D amps. Those have been out for a long time. Not sure if Rythmik has HX480's at this point. The amp also has to be modified for the different driver. This is an experiment in alternative ideas.
Danny changed the impedance of this batch so a 4x8 stack should be ~4 Ohms. An easy load for a Class D amp.
We shall see what happens.
Quote from: HAL on September 23, 2023, 04:57:26 AM
Quote from: Nick B on September 22, 2023, 09:29:15 PM
Hi Rich,
Danny is selling 8" servo kits now? Are you going to use the same painter? Your last ones looked very good
Nick
Nick,
Danny has 8in servo drivers in stock. I am planning to take these to my painter and get them finished in Hot Rod Black as before.
Problem is that only the A370PEQ and A370XLR2 servo amps seem to be in stock, not the HX300 or HX400 Class D amps. Those have been out for a long time. Not sure if Rythmik has HX480's at this point. The amp also has to be modified for the different driver. This is an experiment in alternative ideas.
Danny changed the impedance of this batch so a 4x8 stack should be ~4 Ohms. An easy load for a Class D amp.
We shall see what happens.
Lots going on there, Rich. Hope it turns out great. I'm putting hours on my Rythmik L12s. I have a long way to go in figuring out how to integrate them properly. My first pair of subs...ever
Nick,
If you have Room EQ Wizard on a machine and can make room measurements of just each sub and then each sub and speaker, we might be able to help.
Even the little iMM-6s calibrated mic for like $20 works with a computer with a TRRS style 3.5mm headphone jack with powered mic input. I use it with a TRRS extender cable and download the calibration data with the mic serial number.
I am working customers through using REW with the dspNexus 2x8 and they are getting very good results.
Quote from: HAL on September 23, 2023, 01:39:55 PM
Nick,
If you have Room EQ Wizard on a machine and can make room measurements of just each sub and then each sub and speaker, we might be able to help.
Even the little iMM-6s calibrated mic for like $20 works with a computer with a TRRS style 3.5mm headphone jack with powered mic input. I use it with a TRRS extender cable and download the calibration data with the mic serial number.
I am working customers through using REW with the dspNexus 2x8 and they are getting very good results.
Rich,
I have REW on a macbook air laptop and the headphone jack as well. I run Roon on my Mac desktop and it has MUSE dsp. Would I not be complicating things quite a bit by using dsp nexus and wouldn't that need to also run on Windows?
Nick,
Using REW on a machine with a soundcard that will work with a mic and output signal to the system is all that is needed for measurements. The HAL MS-6 PC does it with the built in soundcard and the TRRS connector for output. Just an example. The MAC should work.
I used the dspNexus as an example as it becomes the crossover for a speaker and bass management with multiple PEQ's available. If ROON is doing that in your system, then just use REW to make the measurements and input the PEQ data it calculates into the filters.
One system I am working on has 5 PEQ's below 300Hz split between the sub and woofers and on the other channel 1 PEQ in the sub channel. These were calculated with REW after some listening seat measurements. Pretty classic way to do bass management. The PEQ's are only on the speaker driver channels that need them.
Checked out the grill frames that insert into the OB H-Frame module face.
Then glued and clamped the first module to do a test fit of the 8in servo woofer.
Will wire the driver before install as they are a tight fit. Then use a Neutrik connector in a mount to wire up for use.
Quote from: HAL on September 24, 2023, 03:43:40 AM
Nick,
Using REW on a machine with a soundcard that will work with a mic and output signal to the system is all that is needed for measurements. The HAL MS-6 PC does it with the built in soundcard and the TRRS connector for output. Just an example. The MAC should work.
I used the dspNexus as an example as it becomes the crossover for a speaker and bass management with multiple PEQ's available. If ROON is doing that in your system, then just use REW to make the measurements and input the PEQ data it calculates into the filters.
One system I am working on has 5 PEQ's below 300Hz split between the sub and woofers and on the other channel 1 PEQ in the sub channel. These were calculated with REW after some listening seat measurements. Pretty classic way to do bass management. The PEQ's are only on the speaker driver channels that need them.
Ok, Rich. That seems pretty straightforward. I have virtually no experience with DSP and set MUSE at 75Hz and the subs as well. Dave made me inline filters at 75 I believe. But there was an issue with the connectors and he's working on that. So all I've used with these subs is MUSE DSP. I will say that when I set the DSP at 75, it did cause a slight peak at 500 or so. I don't know if that is because the Roon software is not the best or simply because it's common with DSP software.
Nick,
The 500Hz peak is not something common to DSP use as it is not seen in the dspNexus 2x8 in use as the crossover and room correction.
With a little time REW will become a valuable tool in getting the system and room better balanced. I just got two customers using REW and they are very happy with the results. Measurements are your friend. :)
Both those customers have a ROON based system and run Windows 10/11 for the ROON Bridge.
Rich
Quote from: HAL on September 25, 2023, 04:58:59 AM
Nick,
The 500Hz peak is not something common to DSP use as it is not seen in the dspNexus 2x8 in use as the crossover and room correction.
With a little time REW will become a valuable tool in getting the system and room better balanced. I just got two customers using REW and they are very happy with the results. Measurements are your friend. :)
Both those customers have a ROON based system and run Windows 10/11 for the ROON Bridge.
Rich
I tried to find that mic on Amazon, but didn't see it. Will check the audio sites tomorrow. I attached a link for a pic of the Roon DSP to show that peak. The 12"" drivers are sounding better. It's quite an adjustment (at least for me...) getting used to having subs
https://share.icloud.com/photos/040cwj2YBgY10aqjSGWdH3BrQ
Nick,
There are three mics to look at depending on you PC. If it has a TRRS connector look at the Dayton Audio iMM-6 and iMM-6S mics:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6-iDevice-Calibrated-Microphone-390-810?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6S-iDevice-Calibrated-Microphone-Straight-390-812?quantity=1
If you have a balanced mic input to the measurement system, the eMM-6 is an option:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-EMM-6-Electret-Measurement-Microphone-390-801?quantity=1
Not sure about Amazon except for the basic Behringer ECM8000 mic without calibration data. All 3 above have downloadable calibration data from the Dayton Audio website.
Two of the 8in OB H-Frames with the sub drivers installed and wired.
Time for some testing.
Quote from: HAL on September 26, 2023, 04:37:46 AM
Nick,
There are three mics to look at depending on you PC. If it has a TRRS connector look at the Dayton Audio iMM-6 and iMM-6S mics:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6-iDevice-Calibrated-Microphone-390-810?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-iMM-6S-iDevice-Calibrated-Microphone-Straight-390-812?quantity=1
If you have a balanced mic input to the measurement system, the eMM-6 is an option:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-EMM-6-Electret-Measurement-Microphone-390-801?quantity=1
Not sure about Amazon except for the basic Behringer ECM8000 mic without calibration data. All 3 above have downloadable calibration data from the Dayton Audio website.
Thanks very much, Rich. I'll take a look and see if I can find the specs on my MacBook Air laptop or call Apple. It's a 2013 model.
Finished the 4th sub module and the rest of the wiring for the 8in servo subs.
Once the 4th module glue has set, then install the next two servo woofers and wire them up.
First stack of 4 OB servo sub modules complete. One still has the glue drying, so should be ready later tonight to install the servo sub and wiring.
Here are pics of what a 3x8" and 4x8" sub stack would look like:
Quote from: HAL on September 29, 2023, 12:18:31 PM
First stack of 4 OB servo sub modules complete. One still has the glue drying, so should be ready later tonight to install the servo sub and wiring.
Here are pics of what a 3x8" and 4x8" sub stack would look like:
Looking good, Rich. Those 3 and 4 stack units must weigh a lot. Any idea what the weight will be with and without the drivers?
Nick,
Once I get them painted will know the final weight of each.
I do know they weight a lot less than a 3x12 stack and possibly a 2x12 stack after painting.
The modified Magna Risers for the MG10/QR speakers will be here Monday from the tracking.
This will put the planars higher on the top installation points with the stainless steel 1/4-20 bolts for mounting.
More gluing this weekend, so hope to have both stacks done when the new speaker stands arrive and then start setup.
Final round of module assembly for glue-up. Module #7 is glued and module #8 is next after #7 glue sets.
Last sub module assembled and drying overnight.
Also received the reworked Magna Risers for the larger bolts in the MG10/QR's with the new stainless steel machine screws.
Both 4x8in servo sub towers are complete.
This is the idea with the MG10/QR's with the Magna Risers stands installed.
Now for some measurements to see what is needed for the DSP crossover.
The two 4x8in OB servo sub cabinets are off to finishing at the cabinet shop.
Going to be a semigloss black finish, but not the Hot Rod Black. It will be waterproof. :)
Have the MG10/QR's setup with the EA dspNexus 2x8 and 4 Orchard Audio 150W GaN Monoblock amps driving each planar driver.
The dspNexus 2x8 DSP crossover is playing music and sounding very good.
Quote from: HAL on October 13, 2023, 02:49:14 PM
Have the MG10/QR's setup with the EA dspNexus 2x8 and 4 Orchard Audio 150W GaN Monoblock amps driving each planar driver.
The dspNexus 2x8 DSP crossover is playing music and sounding very good.
Looks good, Rich. Getting closer to the acoustics or is that appt/consultation still a ways off?
Nick,
No response from the acoustician since the end of August.
Sent another email, so waiting a bit before giving up with that company, then try and find a different one.
At this point, I have more of the P.I.Audio Group Mr. T's and QRD's diffusor panels in the room. A few other pieces survived, so will put them in temporarily as well.
Looks like the prototype servo amps for the 8in servo subs will be here this week. :D
Time to build some amp cabinets.
The servo amps need boxes, so these are Jay's HX style flat pack boxes.
Box #1 it glued and clamped to dry. Then on to box #2 assembly.
The HX300-8OB servo amps are wired to the two sets of 4x8in servo subs. They are now working as expected.
The finished 4x8in OB H-Frames should be here on Friday to finish the install of the drivers and wiring.
Quote from: HAL on October 23, 2023, 11:38:53 AM
The HX300-8OB servo amps are wired to the two sets of 4x8in servo subs. They are now working as expected.
The finished 4x8in OB H-Frames should be here on Friday to finish the install of the drivers and wiring.
Hi Rich,
Any noticeable difference in performance with the HX300-8OB servo amps vs the previous amps...that I believe weren't available anymore?
Nick
Nick,
These are basically the same as the original HX300 servo amps. The circuits are moded to work with the 8in OB subs instead of the 12in OB subs.
This time Danny redesigned the 8in sub woofer to be slightly higher impedance so the amp could drive 4x8in instead of just 3.
The other difference is extending the LF response to 30Hz and using the dspNexus 2x8 to control the low frequency extension. It was around 40Hz before. Will have to wait until the servo drivers are mounted in the H-Frames to adjust the response so they do not bottom.
Quote from: HAL on October 23, 2023, 12:21:54 PM
Nick,
These are basically the same as the original HX300 servo amps. The circuits are moded to work with the 8in OB subs instead of the 12in OB subs.
This time Danny redesigned the 8in sub woofer to be slightly higher impedance so the amp could drive 4x8in instead of just 3.
The other difference is extending the LF response to 30Hz and using the dspNexus 2x8 to control the low frequency extension. It was around 40Hz before. Will have to wait until the servo drivers are mounted in the H-Frames to adjust the response so they do not bottom.
Thanks, Rich.
Great progress for you so far. This Wednesday, I'm having honeycomb blinds installed behind my system. Have had an uncovered window there since I moved in last November. That's the first step to integrate the subs. Will be using REW with the mic for testing that you suggested.
Nick
Nick,
Glad you are making progess on the sub setup soon.
Keep us posted on your REW measurements. Always interesting to see different room responses.
The Magnepan MG10/QR's with two 2x12 OB modular H-Frame servo subs are now with another nephew for his new system.
When he has all the other gear needed, will order him a dspNexus 2/8 and program it for the system.
Now on to new audio projects... :)
Quote from: HAL on November 26, 2024, 05:15:05 PM
The Magnepan MG10/QR's with two 2x12 OB modular H-Frame servo subs are now with another nephew for his new system.
When he has all the other gear needed, will order him a dspNexus 2/8 and program it for the system.
Now on to new audio projects... :)
Rich,
What other gear does he need or need to upgrade?
Nick,
He will need two FOSI ZA-3 stereo amps to biamp the MG10/QR's, two A370 servo amps, two more SW-12-16FR sub drivers and a dspNexus 2/8 and the servo sub wiring.
He has his turntable with the dspNexus 2/8 ADC and phono setting and his Bluetooth phone as the digital input.
Quote from: HAL on November 28, 2024, 02:00:53 PM
Nick,
He will need two FOSI ZA-3 stereo amps to biamp the MG10/QR's, two A370 servo amps, two more SW-12-16FR sub drivers and a dspNexus 2/8 and the servo sub wiring.
He has his turntable with the dspNexus 2/8 ADC and phono setting and his Bluetooth phone as the digital input.
Well, that's quite manageable and he's fortunate to have your help. Pls keep us posted on his progress, Rich