The AGN II line array speaker will be a 2-way with 6 Radian Audio LM10n planars covering the 200Hz to 20KHz range and 6x12 OB H-Frame servo subs covering 14Hz to 200Hz.
The dspNexus 2x8 DSP system with AKM AK4499EX DAC's will be the DSP crossover and input selection use.
The two 6x12 modular OB H-Frame servo sub cabinets are assembled and ready for painting. These are Jay's modular cabinet flat packs I assembled. These have a top plate the same size as the sub module top. He also makes tops with overhangs.
Drop them off next week for painting. The last 6-12in servo subs arrive this week.
The 12 open baffle sub cabinets are being painted with an automotive 8 step finish. Here are some pics of the modules and base:
Looking good, Rich! Nothing like having a professional paint job. My spray results are ok, but that's all...
Nick
Nick,
Thanks!
They always do a great finish job for me.
Rich
All the 12 sub modules are now painted and here.
A low gloss Hot Rod Black color. They do a great job on finishing!
All the sub modules, tops and bases painted and ready for servo sub driver installation. :D
Quote from: HAL on May 25, 2024, 07:20:12 PM
All the sub modules, tops and bases painted and ready for servo sub driver installation. :D
😊👍👍
The first Servo sub getting installed in the OB modular cabinets.
Modules are getting assembled.
One third of the modules are complete.
Quote from: HAL on June 01, 2024, 06:24:57 PM
Modules are getting assembled.
One third of the modules are complete.
Hey Rich,
Looks good. How much do each of these stacking modules weigh and do you need any help lifting them into position?
Nick,
They are around 25-30lbs each and easy to move around. I need to weigh one now that they are finished. The base plate and top cap are under 10lbs each.
I stack them by myself. Will need a small ladder to put the top modules on.
Went to modular cabinets to prevent having to move heavy large sub cabinets around. Works well for me.
Quote from: HAL on June 01, 2024, 06:53:02 PM
Nick,
They are around 25-30lbs each and easy to move around. I need to weigh one now that they are finished. The base plate and top cap are under 10lbs each.
I stack them by myself. Will need a small ladder to put the top modules on.
Went to modular cabinets to prevent having to move heavy large sub cabinets around. Works well for me.
Rich,
That's quite manageable and a nice idea.
Now up to 7 modules complete. Only 5 more to go then make the amp to driver cable harness.
Eight modules complete.
Four more servo sub driver installs in the cabinets and then time to make the wiring harness to connect the drivers to the servo amps.
All twelve sub modules are complete.
Next to bolt the two 6x12 stacks together in their locations.
Then build the wiring harnesses from the sub modules to the servo amps.
The two 6x12 servo sub to servo amp wiring is complete for trials.
The cabinet shop picked up the AGN Line Array baffles for rework to fit the new planar drivers.
Now the wait begins for them to return.
This is the original audio room setup. All changed now after the rework.
The new Monolith 6x12 servo sub towers are complete and wired to the 4-HX300-12OB servo amps.
Checked and the first 2 servo amps are up and running. Need to wire up the second pair.
So far, so good.
Quote from: HAL on July 05, 2024, 04:49:00 PM
The new Monolith 6x12 servo sub towers are complete and wired to the 4-HX300-12OB servo amps.
Checked and the first 2 servo amps are up and running. Need to wire up the second pair.
So far, so good.
Party on!!!
:beer:
The Line Array baffle rework has begun. Baffle #1 was recut and test fit with the 6 planar drivers. Good to go.
Now for the second one to be recut and some finish work for the new longer slot and front roundovers.
The second AGN II baffle is reworked and will be back here next week to install the planar drivers for testing.
Getting close!
Quote from: HAL on July 10, 2024, 10:16:40 AM
The second AGN II baffle is reworked and will be back here next week to install the planar drivers for testing.
Getting close!
😊 👍
The line array baffles have returned from rework and ready for new holes to be drilled for the new planars.
Then test everything before doing paint touch-up on the prototype baffles.
With a friends help, have the reworked AGN II Line Array baffles in my listening room.
Now to drill new pilot holes in the baffle to mount the 6-LM10n planars.
The planars fit perfectly in the reworked slot.
Now time for some pilot hole drilling.
Quote from: HAL on August 12, 2024, 01:12:17 PM
The planars fit perfectly in the reworked slot.
Now time for some pilot hole drilling.
That blue looks really nice 👍
Nick,
Thanks!
It is Honda Aegean Blue automotive paint. I really like it.
Now time to drill some pilot holes for the planar mounting screws.
Also rebuilt 6 cables to connect the planars to the amps. Will do 6 more soon.
Quote from: HAL on August 12, 2024, 01:12:17 PM
The planars fit perfectly in the reworked slot.
Now time for some pilot hole drilling.
Oh, hey. I've got to agree with Nick; that blue color
pops!
I'll admit I haven't been following this thread closely <mostly due to my new granddad duties and responsibilities>, are you showing these in any of the audio shows this year or next?
Michael
Michael,
I tried for CAF2024 for this system this year, but no large rooms are available. The regular size rooms available are to small.
Plan so far is to do an AB comparison of passive vs DSP crossover with the Magnepan 1.7's or 1.7i's that I and Danville Signal have with the upgraded dspNexus 2x8. Might also be the M1 speakers for an ABC comparison of original passive vs upgraded passive vs DSP crossovers.
Will see about CAF2025, but it depends on others giving up a larger room.
Quote from: HAL on August 14, 2024, 04:53:36 AM
Nick,
Thanks!
It is Honda Aegean Blue automotive paint. I really like it.
Now time to drill some pilot holes for the planar mounting screws.
Also rebuilt 6 cables to connect the planars to the amps. Will do 6 more soon.
A little old school with the hand drill, Rich 😀 Nice!
Thanks for the reply. What is the minimum suitably sized room you?d recommend for these speakers (L x W x H)?
My room is 10'H x 16'W x 25'L and probably in the range of smallest for these. You need at least 9'H x 16'W for the speakers.
Both cabinets have about an 18"W footprint and need at least 3' from the front wall and 4' from the side walls.
The right AGN II Line Array has the LM10n planars installed.
Next is install the left channel planars. Then connect the wiring for the monoblock amps.
The AGN II left line array planar install started.
The local hardware supplier ran out of my preferred nylon washers, so waiting on restock. Had enough to install 3 planars for today. Will check on another source to see what is available.
The prototype pair of AGN II Open Baffle Planar Line Arrays are assembled and ready for wiring.
Will be using Belden 1309A 14awg stranded wiring to all the planars directly to the monoblock amps.
Quote from: HAL on August 30, 2024, 09:45:41 AM
The prototype pair of AGN II Open Baffle Planar Line Arrays are assembled and ready for wiring.
Will be using Belden 1309A 14awg stranded wiring to all the planars directly to the monoblock amps.
Hey Rich,
Just curious as to your thoughts on wire. Do your prefer copper, silver, OCC, UPOCC, cryo makes any difference etc.
Nick
Oxygen free copper stranded has been my favorite. The OCC version I like as well.
Tried silver and was fine as well, but not a big difference.
Wire is application specific. In some applications silver sounds much better than copper, in others copper is better than silver. Then there are those applications where a combo is good. Question then is: how much silver to copper? Stranded or solid?
The big wildcard is the wildly different SQ of allegedly "pure silver". This leads me to wonder if the minor percentages of entrained metallic contaminants are responsible.
For example: I know the differences between ferrous and non-ferrous contaminants. Iron sucks.
Rich, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll post this here and as a new topic.
https://magnancables.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/magnan-cable-information1.pdf
Dave,
No problem. Always good to discuss all aspects of a design.
Just finished wiring the left AGN II planars with 14awg stranded wiring.
Next is wiring the right speaker planars.
The wiring harness for the right AGN II speaker is now installed.
The wiring will have locking connectors directly attached to go to the amps.
The pair of AGN II Planar Line Arrays have locking connectors installed. Using Rhodium plated locking banana plugs for each pair of planar drivers in the array.
Next is connection to the 3 pairs of Orchard Audio Starkrimson monoblocks with the GaN SMPS to the dspNexus 2x8. Then time for measurements and listening trials.
Have the pair of AGN II Line Arrays wired to the Orchard Audio Starkrimson Monoblocks.
Next connect the XLR balanced cables to the dspNexus 2x8 with the AK4499EX DACs for measurements and listening. I like balanced as when I measured SNR, it was 30dB lower noisefloor with balanced than unbalanced.
Time for wiring the GaN Class D amps signal cables and running AC power to everything.
The AGN II's are wired to the amps and amps to the dspNexus 2x8 with AK4499EX DAC's. Power to the 6 Starkrimson Monoblock amps and dspNexus 2x8 are coming from a P.I. Audio Group BlunderBUSS.
I had to relocate the BUSS closer to the center of the room and the IEC power cord needs to be about 1 meter longer. Problem is the longer AC cables were in the room water problem. Now to come up with a new solution.
Made a compromise for AC wiring and have the Line Arrays are up and running with the servo subs. The planars need some time, but it sounds really good!
Quote from: HAL on September 07, 2024, 02:49:45 PM
The AGN II's are wired to the amps and amps to the dspNexus 2x8 with AK4499EX DAC's. Power to the 6 Starkrimson Monoblock amps and dspNexus 2x8 are coming from a P.I. Audio Group BlunderBUSS.
I had to relocate the BUSS closer to the center of the room and the IEC power cord needs to be about 1 meter longer. Problem is the longer AC cables were in the room water problem. Now to come up with a new solution.
Made a compromise for AC wiring and have the Line Arrays are up and running with the servo subs. The planars need some time, but it sounds really good!
:thumb:
Quote from: HAL on September 07, 2024, 02:49:45 PM
The AGN II's are wired to the amps and amps to the dspNexus 2x8 with AK4499EX DAC's. Power to the 6 Starkrimson Monoblock amps and dspNexus 2x8 are coming from a P.I. Audio Group BlunderBUSS.
I had to relocate the BUSS closer to the center of the room and the IEC power cord needs to be about 1 meter longer. Problem is the longer AC cables were in the room water problem. Now to come up with a new solution.
Made a compromise for AC wiring and have the Line Arrays are up and running with the servo subs. The planars need some time, but it sounds really good!
Looking good, Rich, aesthetically and hopefully sonically as well 👍🎶
Nick,
Sounds very good but needs some time on the planars. Same thing as the Magnetar II's when I tried the single planar.
Just means I need to listen to more music! :)
Quote from: HAL on September 08, 2024, 06:50:45 PM
Nick,
Sounds very good but needs some time on the planars. Same thing as the Magnetar II's when I tried the single planar.
Just means I need to listen to more music! :)
Get that film to settle down. 👍🏼 How much time on the woofers. Given that they are barely moving, it probably doesn't matter much...
Dave,
The 12-12in subs are old. I checked and they are where the T-S parameters are supposed to be.
The 6 new ones I got need a lot of run-in time to settle down.
Working the planars now for a few hours and that seems about all they need from the past use.
I have to use XLR splitters to run the 4 servo amps from 2 DAC channels. Got those to use and will have them all working. With just two 3x12's it was fun! :o
Quote from: HAL on September 08, 2024, 06:50:45 PM
Nick,
Sounds very good but needs some time on the planars. Same thing as the Magnetar II's when I tried the single planar.
Just means I need to listen to more music! :)
A tough life, Rich. But listen you must! 😁
Quote from: HAL on September 09, 2024, 06:46:09 PM
Dave,
The 12-12in subs are old. I checked and they are where the T-S parameters are supposed to be.
The 6 new ones I got need a lot of run-in time to settle down.
Working the planars now for a few hours and that seems about all they need from the past use.
I have to use XLR splitters to run the 4 servo amps from 2 DAC channels. Got those to use and will have them all working. With just two 3x12's it was fun! :o
I have NO doubt. :D
The XLR splitters are now installed for the 4 servo amps.
Oh yeah!!! :o
It now has the effortless dynamics like live music. Simple mic recordings are in the room with a big sound stage.
Now I have to get the room acoustics treatments again to fix the few things I am hearing that are off.
Fun stuff!
Quote from: HAL on September 10, 2024, 05:09:40 PM
The XLR splitters are now installed for the 4 servo amps.
Oh yeah!!! :o
It now has the effortless dynamics like live music. Simple mic recordings are in the room with a big sound stage.
Now I have to get the room acoustics treatments again to fix the few things I am hearing that are off.
Fun stuff!
Email me dimensions and pictures :thumb:
Dave,
Thanks! Will do!
Trying a GoPro stereo audio/video recording of the AGN II's with some classical music for a listening session. This is a Telarc recording with the info in the video description.
YouTube says it will not play everywhere, but will see what happens.
Watch your volume!
https://youtu.be/Rb4vN-XWgJM
Playback on YouTube sounds somewhat rolled off from the upper midrange on up compared
to playback of same recording on my system. Cymbal crashes and upper registers of organ
being noticeably muted. Considering the difficulty of recording the playback of music in your listening room and then allowing for what ever YouTube does to it as a result of uploading, I think that it sounds pretty good.
The bottom end came through quite nicely and the dynamic range was also pretty good
. This recording will stress the system to the breaking point and beyond if you are not careful.
The completed speaker system looks very good, the paint turned out especially nice.
I guess I'm into the big black "Monolith" look.
If you can't go big, go home. :thumb:
Scotty
Scotty,
Yes, trying to record a line array is very challenging. Hard to tell what the GoPro cameras mic response is as I cannot find any info from them. I know the sample rate and bit depth are 192KHz/24bit, but that is all I can tell.
The system has a lot more dynamic range than what I am using. It would just overload the mics and my ears.
Yes, I like the Monolithic look.
No doubt about that, microphone and associated gain stage overload are a thing. From a SNR
standpoint, the recording is very good. How loudly did seem it like you had to playback the Saint Saens piece to achieve the recording level you had?
One of my biggest gripes about my UMM-6 USB is it's relatively poor SNR
of -70dB. It could easily have a -95dB or better SNR. At this point in time the chips are out there and they are inexpensive to use. You have to playback your test signal using REW at very loud levels to overcome the
the ambient noise of the room and the -70 SNR of the measurement microphone. The power levels necessary
are somewhat concerning especially in a larger room with potentially insensitive loudspeakers.
I would think that if the microphone had a better SNR you would only have be above the ambient noise by 10 to 20dB.
This could result in your test signal being no louder than 70 or 80dB at measuring position. Perhaps a little safer for the health
of your tweeter.
Correct me if I have the wrong assumption regarding this topic.
Scotty
Scotty,
The peak SPL level in the room was probably around 85dB SPL with the Saint-Seans excerpt.
I run sweeps in the 70dB SPL range for the planar drivers for protection and the spaced in time for heat dissipation. The room noise floor is below the mic noise floor of the Beyerdynamic MM1 measurement mic, so lower than the GoPro mic noise. The LM10n planar drivers are rated at 70Wrms as long as out of band low frequencies are used. There is no tweeter in this case, just the wideband planar.
The camera does have very good stereo recording capability when I listen to the original WAV files, but MP4 for video is compressed and that is the standard.