AudioNervosa

Rules:

Each person gets one part per post. If a new part replacing an old part is made then there needs to be a pro/con so that Rich can make a decision.

I'll start:

The bad mama jamma motherboard:

      Specifications
          o Mfr Part Number: M2N32-WS PRO
          o CPU: Socket AM2 support Athlon 64 X2/ 64 FX/ 64/ Sempron; AMD Cool 'n' Quiet Technology; 32/64-bit computing; FSB 2000/1600 MT/s
          o Chipset: NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP (C51XE/MCP55PXE) & NEC uPD720404
          o Memory: 4x 240pin DDR2-800/667/533 DIMMs, Dual Channel, ECC/Non-ECC, Un-Buffered, Upto 8GB
          o Slots: 2x PCI Express x16 slots (Support nVidia SLI Technology); 2x PCI Express x1 slots; 2x PCI-X slots; 1x PCI 2.2 slot
          o IDE/SATA:
                + nForce 590 SLI MCP: 1x ATA-133 channel, 6x SATA2 ports support RAID 0, 1, 0+1, 5 and JBOD
                + Marvell 88SE614x: 1x ATA-100 channel, 3x SATA2 ports, 1x eSATA ports
          o Audio: ADI 1988B 8-channel High Definition Audio CODEC
          o LAN: 2x Marvell 88E1116 Gigabit LAN Controllers
          o Ports: 10x USB 2.0 ports (4 rear, 6 by headers); 2x PS/2 ports; 1x Optical + 1x Coaxial S/PDIF output port; 2x IEEE1394a ports (by headers); 1x eSATA port; 2x RJ45 LAN ports; Audio I/O jack
          o Form Factor: ATX, 12 x 9.6 inch / 30.5 x 24.5 cm
          o Package: Retail

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-M2N32WS (http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-M2N32WS) if you use Google product search it can be found from the same site for $20 less.

(http://www.ewiz.com/newg/M/B/-/MB-M2N32WS/MB-M2N32WS_LG.GIF)

Oooooh, I can already tell..... this is gonna hurt. I better look for quarters under the cushions.  But I opened my mouth and will follow through. But please.... be gentle...   :D

I am thinking about this more and more. I think my recording needs will best served by a laptop. It is mobile and has firewire, runs winders, solves the whole problem. I need a new laptop for work anyway.

So that makes the audio server easier. It can go anywhere on the network it is just a server so silence is less important, as long as it is generally quiet. I already bought Carl's Nexus quiet ATX box (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=breeze_400_config).  Looks nice!!!

It could run Linux if it is only gonna use SC7. But I am worried that I won't be able to manage it effectively from lack of knowledge experience. RAID is hard enough WITH the cartoon graphics.

I need about 1TB redundant storage, maybe 3 500GB in RAID 5? That is about 2000+ albums in flac, more than enough.
Thanks

In the old days AMD chips didn't support all the newest Intel instructions. I think they would invent some just to be able to say that. Is there still any issues with that? I don't do heavy graphics but audio processing should be full blast. AMD is finally for real, right?

I don't mind a few bells and whistles that would help HT and gaming functions down the road. I think the hifi will be moving upstairs where I can decorate to my own "taste" so the LR can become a half assed HT at some point. I could use this as a HTPC if reliable software ever emerges. But by then computer features will have changed 100%, so maybe this $200 mobo is too much bells and whistles that I will never use as audio PC?

So with all those SATA ports I just connect each to a drive, set BIOS and say a prayer?

Hey, Rich stole my 1-post contribution!  :lol:
Rich's new Nexus case is/was my audio-PC but I plan to do something different, smaller... and I have another PC to be the SC7/music server already... So, just made sense to suggest it when I started watching the server-building ideas begin to roll.

This case is large/full-size which helps with heat dissipation with lots of large drives.  Should be very 'cool' when complete.  8)

-C

Quote from: richidoo on April 24, 2008, 02:20:22 PM
Oooooh, I can already tell..... this is gonna hurt. I better look for quarters under the cushions.  But I opened my mouth and will follow through. But please.... be gentle...   :D

Well, maybe you don't need the ability to have 13 hard drives connected to the motherboard. We can probably go with a slightly cheaper model then  8)

The more I read about the recommended parts, I realize you guys are serious about performance. Is that really necessary to run a SB server?? I don't need a gaming machine. I think this is too much power and money. I was originally intrigued by the small size and low cost of Nicks first post about the little Intel micro board with Celeron.

My 6yo Dell 2400 has 2.6GHz P4 and has enough power, if it weren't also doing my power user activities and sharing profiles with other people. Amazing it has held up. With 100+ apps installed the registry is enormous. It is not optimized for SC at all, hence the problems.

The Infrant NAS is lightning fast file server, and either mediocre or just plain sucks at everything else. The processor is designed for fileserving and those specs are great. I will use it to hold music files and forego a separate disk array in the SB server. It is 750GB Raid 5 right now, no point replacing it. Using Nicks dedicated Linux server with SC7 is plenty fast enough with less than half second response. A modern dual core processor would make it even faster as would a better network switch to get this SB system off the consumer router.  I can always put more storage into the SB server if that becomes an issue, but I would like to try the NAS for storage with a dedicated faster host first.

I will run Sonar and recording software on a laptop and only playback masters through the SB, so big memory is not required either, 2G should be plenty to start, and harmless to add more. I want to put the money into the laptop where the processing power and reliability will be needed.

Running plugins on SB is the only fly in my "less is more" ointment. That will require significant processing power, but running under Linux and running nothing else at all but SC should still be enough with a modern dual core and fast buss. I ran Inguz EQ on the Dell with no problem. But Inguz works on WAVs, so the machine needs to decode flac locally, then process the plugin, while maintaining decent nav response. These are the kind of things I would like to understand before I buy. To buy enough power, but not 2x more than I will ever need.

I know I need a new machine for this, always on, dedicated audio server, with enough speed to minimize SB navigation delay. So I gotta get something. This isn't a wet blanket, just a more focused engineering specification.

I want to reference the price of the build to that of a finished system. An HP with AMD x2 is only $600. Seems like we can DIY with better value than that?? How bout least expensive way to run AMD Athlon x2 in Carls quiet box? A single small Seagate Barracuda for OS and apps. 2GB ram, no video. I think that's all I really need to start. That solves my immediate problem and allows improvement if needed.

Please point out the flaws in my thinking!!!
Thanks
Rich

Ok, I've looked at the main board more:

For $50 this is a pretty good performer:

Specifications
     Form Factor:     microATX
     Processor Interface:     Socket AM2+
     Processors Supported:     AMD Athlon 64
        AMD Athlon 64 FX
        AMD Athlon 64 X2
        AMD Phenom
     Additional Technologies:     HyperTransport Technology
     Front Side Bus:     1000MHz (2000 MT/s)
        800MHz (1600 MT/s)
     Northbridge:     NVIDIA GeForce 6100/nForce 430
     Number of Slots:     2
     Number of Pins:     240-Pin
     Maximum Memory Supported:     4GB - 32bit
        16GB - 64bit
     Memory Supported:     400MHz DDR2
        533MHz DDR2
        Dual Channel Supported
        667MHz DDR2
        800MHz DDR2
     Channels:     6 Channels
     Audio Chipset:     Realtek ALC662
     Video Chipset:     GeForce 6100
     Video Memory:     256MB Share Memory

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3581158&sku=S458-1300

One added plus is that it supports Raid 5. The issue I'm seeing is that most boards don't do hardware Raid 5 it's more of a software based solution that looks like hardware Raid. Should be good enough though.

Good processor for $70:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ 2.40GHz / 1MB Cache / 1000MHz FSB / Socket AM2 / Dual-Core (Windsor) / Processor with Fan

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2207256&sku=CP1-AM2-4600

Dual core, fast and proven. I have the X2 3800 in my desktop and I like it.

Ram:

Corsair Dual Channel TWINX 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 1024MB)

$25 after rebate.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2227141&sku=C13-2024

Exactly!!! Thanks Nick... All the essential performance specs are retained from mama jamma. But no tigerdirect. Just can't do it. I'll check egg and pay a little more, that's OK.
Rich

Sub total: $170 but we still need hard drives. Since the board supports 4 SATA and 2 PATA devices we can stick a CD/DVD rom and a PATA IDE drive for boot/os and leave the other 4 for Raid.

You're not a Tiger guy? They are usually pretty good for me. NewEgg I think is a little higher class though.

Same RAM with rebate from MWave if you don't want to use Tiger

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA22682

Boot Disk

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA17640

$39

Data drives - $92 each - RoHS compliant - 25dbA noise level - 50GB capacity with 16MB cache.  You'll need a minimum of 3 of these to do RAID 5. Also, these are bare drives so you'll need cables.

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA72848

Quote from: bpape on April 25, 2008, 08:49:40 AM
Boot Disk

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA17640

$39

Good find, I have one of these at home and one in the car (long story I can get into later). They perform well and are cheap.

Thanks guys!! Looks great.

I have a Caviar WD800, it is 2004 model, but brand new. It caused my DirecTivo box to freeze randomly so I swapped in a new one. I sent it to the seller for credit and they said it tested fine. It is brand new, could be the 8yo Tivo on the way out or it could be this drive is bum. Is it worth trying for OS? I won't put data storage into the machine until later, then I'll go with my beloved Barracudas, with 2 750s mirrored.

I don't buy tiger anymore after a truly inspiring retail store experience. Pride in beauracracy is abhorant. I eschew obfuscation.

Thanks for the help guys. I feel good about this config.
Rich

That drive should be more than adequate especially since it's PATA. With the boards we've mentioned you'd end up needing one of those for boot/os anyway and then the big SATA for storage. I like it.

Great. I am just about ready to order parts. I gotta have a moment of peace to think it through clearly and little league is running me crazy. Thanks Nick

I have not flaked, just been busy.

I was looking at mobos this morning. Still deciding on what I want for power/price, but should be able to order in next day or so. Going fwd with SB instead of Sonos, for now. I already have 3 SBs and need music storage anyway, so a server will help me see whether slim can cut it or not.

I did unload AdAware on my PC which really freed it up a lot. But SB nav is still about the same. Not quite as fast as Nicks server, but faster than NAS.

Sounds great Rich. Any thought as to which OS you want to use? If you choose to go with Linux; Ubuntu server is very easy to use and more compatible with upgrades (Inguz, etc) but I've had good luck with FreeBSD. There's always Windows XP, which when not loaded with all of the things most people use runs very well (WHS - Windows Home Server still has some file system issues that I don't know are fixed in the newest SP so I'd wait another quarter or so on WHS).

I thought I found a nice Asus motherboard latest gen M3? but it said no linux drivers available yet...

I would like to be able to try linux, then if it isn't compatible with my processor I can roll back to you know what... (http://www.audionervosa.com/gallery/128_05_05_08_5_33_45.gif)