Gents:
I would like to start this post by proclaiming that I am a believer that ICs influence the character of sound produced from a system. I wanted to state this first as I do not want to start a discussion on whether or not people believe different ICs influence the sound. For this thread, they do - period!
ICs tend to range in price from something approaching reasonable to more than I paid for my Plasma TV. I suspect that most of you have done some experimentation with changing ICs and would like to know what you believe to be the most neutral sounding ICs for under $500.00/meter pair?
Thanks,
Ken
'Favorite IC' and 'most neutral IC' are 2 different things, Ken. ;)
For what I like, my favorite is Audience Au24. I think they're at the top of your price scale used. They are musical, detailed, and have the right timing. They're pretty neutral but also sound very 'natural'.
The best 'for the money' I've heard is either Gregg's Reality Cables or Grover's new 'SC' cable. Both have their own 'flavor' with the 'SC' leaning to neutral and Gregg's being a touch warmer in my experience. Neither of these cables do anything that grates on my nerves.
The cheapest I've heard (under $50/pr) that I like is a recipe using Belden 8422 cable. I have a pair and really like them. Again, they do nothing 'wrong' but aren't as resolving as cables costing hundreds of times more. I'm pretty sure you can use this cable to make XLR or single-ended... I think it's just microphone cable.. I really like Belden cable overall... I've had good success with it for Coax, networking, etc.
Hope that helps.
-Carl
When it comes to Silver, the best I have heard to date is the SilverFi Silver ic's.....but they are not cheap. He has some that are under $500.00 and a few that are over $500.00.
When it comes to Copper based ic's, I also like Gregg's as they are hard to beat for the money.
I used JPS ICs for years and found the SC2 (now SC3 I think), to be excellent. But... not cheap.
I've also used the VH Audio Pulsars. Great bang for the buck but they're not neutral -- tending to warm and slightly rolled off.
I've found very good synergy using the latest Grover SC ICs - both digital and analog and both RCA and XLR. As Carl mentioned, they are fairly neutral and I've found them to possess excellent PRAT and detail.
I have some shielded ICs with Beldon 1505 RF coax, by Blue jeans. They are very nicely made and a steal for $50/M, but a tad veiled compared to Grovers and JPS ultra clarity. Your system is revealing enough that you will benefit from purpose designed high end ICs.
I am intrigued by gold wire. After hearing and loving what aluminum/copper alloy can do (counter-intuitive since aluminum is a worse conductor than copper), and loving Grovers pure silver ribbon conductors, I wanna see what the gold hubub is all about. I would like to hear Kool Kables sometime, but their Silkworms are over your cutoff. They have a new model called Mandarina (http://www.koolcables.com/mandarina.htm), $300/M. I have never heard these or any gold wire. Just fantasizing out loud. I did hear Hantra's gold SCs, those were very nice indeed.
My favorite cable so far is JPS superconductor. Shane is our JPS dealer here in Raleigh, with good prices and demo samples, as you know. So you might wanna taste 'em as part of your search. They have various grades of performance/price. Only the two highest are above your cutoff (but worth it to me). They are the best I have heard so far. I have been gradually moving towards that, but some Grovers still hanging on.
I'll second the Pulsars. Yes they're a bit more on the warm side but I don't find them rolled off at all. Keep in mind that I find most silver cables on the bright side of neutral (not all but most). One of these days I'm going to build my self a set of ICs with OCC Furutech and either Vampire connections or Eichman Bullets.
Bryan
I'm a big fan of the bungee audio cables that I made. I used guitar cable and put some decent ends on them. They are mostly for looks, but that's audiostile 8)
Thought I'd chime in as I've played around alot with different IC's. My favorites by some margin are Nordost Heimdall. They can be had for less than $500 for a 1 meter pair new. Better than everything I tried in every way and even sweeten the sound a tad.
When I aquired a tube preamp this fall I found a Nordost-Nordost combination to be a bit too much, but I have achieved a good balance now with a Au24-Nordost Heimdall combination.
IC's make a very large impact on the way my system sounds and my enjoyment of it, but I did note that wire makes less of a difference with tubes in the circuit, I think probably due to HF rolloff.
Chris
Welcome to AN, chrisa!
Cables are so system specific... I've been using Grover's cables for a few months and am quite satisfied - great bang for the buck!
Used to be Cardas Golden Reference till I heard the JPS Aluminata ](*,). It's exhorbitantly expensive but this is a silly hobby, right?
i like the grover s (white) interconnects that were new in aug. 2007 between my power amp and preamp and kci mandarine between my dac and preamp.
Agreed, I liked the Grover S whites. Then I tried the ones after that and felt they lost something, but the Grover SCs that came after that are as good or better than the whites. I stopped there and, strangely enough, I haven't heard of any other Grover updates since then.
But Grover ICs are definitely an excellent IC (analog or digital) for the money.
I'm gonna have to say the grover whiteys,,and power cords from black sand,,violet z-1 with my preamp,,the synergy is just There :)
For the under $500 category, the Grover SCs are great. Eventually I became aware that there was a little too much happening in the midrange for me (a bit forward at certain frequencies), but perhaps they simply revealed my system as it is.
I fell under the spell of Kubala Sosna stuff, though, so my Grover's are in storage. Needless to say, even the level of KS I could afford, not the top of the line, is much more expensive than the Grovers. I remain a fan of the Grovers (that is why I haven't sold them). In some systems, they might be as much as anyone needs. Certainly a great place to start, and perhaps, to end.
Very cool Phil... 8) http://www.kubala-sosna.com/
Which model do you have? How does it compare to Grover's, with which many of us are familiar? Thanks
Rich
Quote from: Phil on June 04, 2008, 07:10:12 PM
....... I remain a fan of the Grovers (that is why I haven't sold them). In some systems, they might be as much as anyone needs. Certainly a great place to start, and perhaps, to end.
I feel exactly the same way about the Grover SC IC's. They are good. They may be all a system needs... just depends on the system, regardless of the cost of that system.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to get synergy with cabling to no avail. I generally like the sound of copper but I like silver too, just depends. I found the speaker cable to be the hardest to get right. They have been the PRaT maker or breaker a lot of times... which is an important element to me. Much experimentation is required to get it right. IC's have an influence on PRaT but not as much. They always seem to have a character and series of compromises to gain something... Or, they're veiled or harsh in the upper mids. (most sub-100 cables have the latter that I've heard)
The compromises diminish more and more the higher end you go, it seems. And choosing balanced or single-ended makes more difference than the type of cable in some cases... There are just so many variables (including your tastes, hearing, etc.) that a formula can't be made... Which is the reason the cable industry is wide-open to such a large variety of approaches.
Unfortunately there are only x-number of 'audiophiles' that care and it seems an infinite number of cable manufacturers (or 'assemblers') out there. And most of them are stabbing in the dark. The few that use some science seem to do well... Kimber Kable being one of them. I rarely hear them mentioned but they did a lot for the cable industry and I liked my PBJ's quite a bit. (I still use them on a turntable with great success) So, I think that there is a science to what cable produces what sound and you could determine the best for you system... And that keeps me chasing the dream. ;)
I like the latest from Grover. Couldn't afford better anyway! Regarding too much in the midrange...
I thought this too but after a very long burn in, that has settled in nicely.
Rich,
I have the Fascination cables (introduction to the revolutionZ line). The overall tonality is better (in my system, to my ears, etc.) and they are more dyanamic. Both of these qualities - great tonality and being very dynamic - are (to me) the heart of the KS sound. Just very open sounding (unobstructed). I found the same qualities in their power cords and speaker cables. In short, the KS are very natural sounding and allow me to hear lots of nuance without artificial brightness. Once I had them burned I could not find the strength to return them. :lol: So the rapid slope went like this: PC, speaker cable, IC.
I believe they are copper cables. Some folks believe silver has a brighter sound. I tend to believe it is all implementation, but I do like these particular copper cables. I agree with Carl -- just so many variables, too many.
I also like the KS upgrade policy. Trade up within a year and you get 95% of the returned cable. Personally, I love being able to move up the line like that. No huge investment up front. You can check them out and see long term (so important) how they do. I think that some dealers also have evaluation cables that you can try out. I haven't heard the Emotion level for ICs and speaker cables, but I found the Emotion PC to be true to its name. The speaker cables and IC had a greater impact on the overall sound than the PC.
Shep,
Glad the Grovers are working out for you. I did break them in for a very, very long time. Couldn't get rid of the slight elevation of the mids. Not a big deal, mind you, but it got me thinking about the KS once I had their PC and then the speaker cables. Probably just the old nemesis: wanting to try something different.
Phil
Phil, I contacted Joe Kubala of KS Research and heard back from him right away with loads of info, dealer contact, etc. Very professional. We'll see where it leads. I will post the PDFs that he attached for those curious about the wires. Lookin forward to learning more about the line.
Thanks Phil,
Rich
Rich,
Great. Very curious what you think if you give them a listen. If Brent Rainwater is on your list of dealers, I would suggest contacting him - brainwater@sc.rr.com. He is a good guy (since I don't have a dealer in my area, I went to Brent, who also handles APLHifi sources. I have an APLHifi re-designed Denon 3910).
Phil
Brent is my only dealer. Thanks for the reference.
I've been very pleased with my Omegaudio/Hudson (Audiopath) 'R' Interconnects. They are on the warm side, which are a nice compliment to my sigle-driver speakers. I also use the Omegaudio/Hudson 'R' speaker cables with Cardas spades. I'm very pleased with them.
In years past, I really liked my Audio Technica OFC/ceramic cables for their absolute transparency with my bigger system.
Quote from: Carlman on June 05, 2008, 05:56:00 AM
Quote from: Phil on June 04, 2008, 07:10:12 PM
....... I remain a fan of the Grovers (that is why I haven't sold them). In some systems, they might be as much as anyone needs. Certainly a great place to start, and perhaps, to end.
I feel exactly the same way about the Grover SC IC's. They are good. They may be all a system needs... just depends on the system, regardless of the cost of that system.
Ditto.