If this is what its supposed to sound like, I don't want it....

hometheaterdoc · February 22, 2011, 07:44:29 AM

Went to Bon Jovi last night at the behest of fiancee that had never seen them in concert. I like Bon Jovi. It's good sing along fun. I saw them play a high school gym with less than 500 people for >3 hours one night about 10 years ago or so. Other than Jon not being able to remember the words to his own songs and needing the lyrics typed out on sheets of paper, it was an awesome show... It was a real stripped down show and they did a lot of audience participation and questions... kind of like one of those Unplugged things they used to do on MTV years ago. They absolutely killed at it. one of my favorite live shows I've seen over the years.

Last night was single-handedly the worst sounding concert I've ever been to in my life... and I've been to some god awful ones at Walnut Creek ampitheater and small bands at local places where they have junk for sound equipment. all that fancy equipment last night and it sounded like complete and utter trash.... the highlight by a country mile was when Jon didn't sing at all and just stood back and allowed the crowd to sing.... easily 150,000,000% better sounding... the minute he opened his mouth and started singing the sound quality was trashed....

If that is what live sound is supposed to be, I never *EVER* want my stereo to sound like that. It was beyond shrill. The sound engineer tried to bury the vocals in the mix so you wouldn't be aware of how tremendously off key they were... their voices were shot... jon was waaaaaay off on timing and out of synch at points with the band. He had to change the key in a LOT of places to get the songs out... I went to the first aid station and got two sets of ear plugs to try and tame down the overcooked sound after about 15 minutes because I just couldn't stand it anymore.

I can't believe I actually paid money to see that garbage. I left there so pissed off that I don't think I'll go to another live show for quite a while... It's getting me ticked off again just to type this note. I'll stick with my home stereos from now on.....

Carlman · February 22, 2011, 07:52:14 AM

I've had similar experiences at other shows. Sting was a good example... Yes, Sting. Masterful musician with terrible sound quality. The best live concert I've heard was Elvis Costello with Steve Naive sp?. I haven't been to a concert that wasn't too loud... and I like loud. I can't hear much when my eardrums are compressed into my brain... neither can anyone else but someone must like it... or the herd just keeps on grazing, I don't know.

With all the technology and creativity available, I'm surprised there hasn't been a shift in concert going to a more immersive and intimate feeling. I liked the days of MTV unplugged.. and I vowed back then that that's the only type of concert I would go to again. It's otherwise not worth the money.

-C

mdconnelly · February 22, 2011, 08:32:19 AM

Having worked sound for several bands in a prior life (and doing so on a shoestring budget), I am always stunned when megabands with megabucks and mega-soundsystems can't figure out how to make it sound good. Of course, when mega-performers are burned out or shot up, well, that's something no soundguy is gonna be able to fix.

Sad indeed, and one of the reasons I don't make it to rock concerts anymore. Give me acoustic or small-venue jazz and I'm good. (damn I'm getting old!)

allenzachary · February 22, 2011, 12:53:09 PM

I wonder how much of the horrible sound is caused by the acoustics of the arena. There are some mighty bad echoes and reverberations in places that were built for basketball and 18,000 fans.

I know at least one guy that runs sound on the monster shows. He has great ears and (at one point, at least) owned the same B&W 802's as I did. He understands how to turn the knobs to make shows sound great, but still the show I heard him run sounded terrible in Nassau Coliseum.

The commonality of the good sounding shows, it seems, is the size of the venue. Big arenas are not conducive to great sound.

TooManyToys · February 22, 2011, 01:00:28 PM

I wonder how many GIK sound panels it might take ......

djdube525 · February 22, 2011, 01:07:07 PM

The physical nature of the venue can certainly have a large impact... good or bad.

One thing to keep in mind... many times the big shows bring their own sound engineers/teams. On the bright side, they know what sound they are going for. The downside, they tend to have very little to absolute no experience with the venue. Often times, they are not willing to interact with the local venue staff.

I know at my wife's venue, some artists make it a priority to ensure their sound is rock solid. Doc Watson, Jessee Cook, Kathy Mattea and several others always take the extra time to make sure their sound is dialed in. I remember Eileen Ivers once comment on stage while retuning after each song during her performance... "I tune because I care." (She made sure it was a great concert).

Dave

P.S. By any chance is anyone on here going to the Tommy Emmanuel concert in Clayton on Saturday?

Putz · February 22, 2011, 09:15:54 PM

Been to a lot of concerts and many variables can influence the sound quality. Regarding BonJovi, saw them at new Giants Stadium last year and they're just not very good. But gotta luv the hair.

Going to concerts years ago, a lot of the venues were smaller theaters that had decent acoustics and their own sound system which was hopefully properly tweaked. Saw many shows at The Capitol Theater in Passaic and sound was usually pretty good but where you sat made a big difference. Kind of like your listening room at home. And loud was never a problem.

Nowadays you go to a show at an arena or stadium. Bad to no acoustics & one size fits all sound system provided by the act which may or may not be optimal to the building. Usually if you're sitting down front and centered, the sound is tolerable. Anywhere else, good luck. And maybe the band did or didn't do a sound check.

Last show I went to was Neil Young tribute at Carnegie Hall. Sat in the Balcony about 6 rows up. Acoustic performers sounded fine. Electric acts sounded lousy, except for The Roots. Well the sound system was on the stage, pointed straight towards the floor seats. Not even sure if all the instruments were playing thru it. But it's frikkin Carnegie Hall you say. Didn't matter. Show probably sounded great in the expensive seats but upstairs it just didn't work. Had the same experience seeing Roxy Music at Radio City sitting down front on the side. Ended up moving towards the back and sound got much better.

So think twice about where the show is being held and where your seats are located. It will make a difference.

tmazz · February 22, 2011, 10:45:35 PM

A lot of it is simply how much time and effort the act puts into their sound system. About two years ago I took my two boys to see The Who at Nassau Coliseum. To say the sound was dreadful would be a charitable understatement. It was The Who and they put on a great show, but the sound was screechy and painful even with 24 db earplugs in. They sold a DVD of every show from that tour online, so I bought the one from the show we went to as a remembrance for the boys. The sound on the DVD is great. So the mix coming out of the board was great and it was the PA that sucked (I'm willing to bet it was mixed into headphones and the person working the board was not even listening to the house sound.)

Fast forward to last fall and we went to see Roger Waters do The Wall in the same venue. The sound was absolutely first rate (and all we could get were cheap seats.) We were in the back of the upper deck in an 18,000 seat hockey arena and heard every word of every song as clear as if I was listening in my living room. So it can be done. You just need the right people, the right equipment and the willingness to dedicate the time and effort to get it right.

djdube525 · February 23, 2011, 01:33:17 PM

Quote from: tmazz on February 22, 2011, 10:45:35 PM
Fast forward to last fall and we went to see Roger Waters do The Wall in the same venue. The sound was absolutely first rate (and all we could get were cheap seats.) We were in the back of the upper deck in an 18,000 seat hockey arena and heard every word of every song as clear as if I was listening in my living room. So it can be done. You just need the right people, the right equipment and the willingness to dedicate the time and effort to get it right.

Jealous about seeing RW... I'm guessing that was a kick a** show.

Dave

Response Audio · February 23, 2011, 02:13:52 PM

The bottom line is they are simply getting old. I have been to a lot of live performances and some of the best were in smaller venues. Charlie Daniels was one of the better recent ones and this was in a crowded room and me standing about 3 feet away from him. He still has it!
Watching some of the older bands on TV confirms that some of them just are not aging well. Forgetting the words to your own songs only means one thing. Too many drugs for too many years. Acoustics has nothing to do with it at this point.

Barry (NJ) · February 23, 2011, 03:02:38 PM

Quote from: tmazz on February 22, 2011, 10:45:35 PM
A lot of it is simply how much time and effort the act puts into their sound system. About two years ago I took my two boys to see The Who at Nassau Coliseum. To say the sound was dreadful would be a charitable understatement. It was The Who and they put on a great show, but the sound was screechy and painful even with 24 db earplugs in. They sold a DVD of every show from that tour online, so I bought the one from the show we went to as a remembrance for the boys. The sound on the DVD is great. So the mix coming out of the board was great and it was the PA that sucked (I'm willing to bet it was mixed into headphones and the person working the board was not even listening to the house sound.)

Fast forward to last fall and we went to see Roger Waters do The Wall in the same venue. The sound was absolutely first rate (and all we could get were cheap seats.) We were in the back of the upper deck in an 18,000 seat hockey arena and heard every word of every song as clear as if I was listening in my living room. So it can be done. You just need the right people, the right equipment and the willingness to dedicate the time and effort to get it right.

I wonder if where you're sitting has something to do with it too. Sitting near the periphery means that the reflections off the back wall aren't a long way off of the first sound, so you're not getting much of an echo effect as you would sitting towards the center of the arena.

Myself, I've given up on "Stadium" and "Arena" shows, but I'll still got to a large "Concert Hall" like Radio City.

tmazz · February 23, 2011, 08:14:48 PM

Quote from: djdube525 on February 23, 2011, 01:33:17 PM
Quote from: tmazz on February 22, 2011, 10:45:35 PM
Fast forward to last fall and we went to see Roger Waters do The Wall in the same venue. The sound was absolutely first rate (and all we could get were cheap seats.) We were in the back of the upper deck in an 18,000 seat hockey arena and heard every word of every song as clear as if I was listening in my living room. So it can be done. You just need the right people, the right equipment and the willingness to dedicate the time and effort to get it right.

Jealous about seeing RW... I'm guessing that was a kick a** show.

Dave

Big time.

We saw him about a year before doing DSOTM live and that was great, but the wall show had not only great sound and great music, but superb theatrics as well.

tmazz · February 23, 2011, 08:16:25 PM

Quote from: Response Audio on February 23, 2011, 02:13:52 PM
The bottom line is they are simply getting old. I have been to a lot of live performances and some of the best were in smaller venues. Charlie Daniels was one of the better recent ones and this was in a crowded room and me standing about 3 feet away from him. He still has it!
Watching some of the older bands on TV confirms that some of them just are not aging well. Forgetting the words to your own songs only means one thing. Too many drugs for too many years. Acoustics has nothing to do with it at this point.

No doubt. Great sound is meaningless if the music going into the system is cr@p.

tmazz · February 23, 2011, 08:26:31 PM

Quote from: Barry (NJ) on February 23, 2011, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: tmazz on February 22, 2011, 10:45:35 PM
A lot of it is simply how much time and effort the act puts into their sound system. About two years ago I took my two boys to see The Who at Nassau Coliseum. To say the sound was dreadful would be a charitable understatement. It was The Who and they put on a great show, but the sound was screechy and painful even with 24 db earplugs in. They sold a DVD of every show from that tour online, so I bought the one from the show we went to as a remembrance for the boys. The sound on the DVD is great. So the mix coming out of the board was great and it was the PA that sucked (I'm willing to bet it was mixed into headphones and the person working the board was not even listening to the house sound.)

Fast forward to last fall and we went to see Roger Waters do The Wall in the same venue. The sound was absolutely first rate (and all we could get were cheap seats.) We were in the back of the upper deck in an 18,000 seat hockey arena and heard every word of every song as clear as if I was listening in my living room. So it can be done. You just need the right people, the right equipment and the willingness to dedicate the time and effort to get it right.

I wonder if where you're sitting has something to do with it too. Sitting near the periphery means that the reflections off the back wall aren't a long way off of the first sound, so you're not getting much of an echo effect as you would sitting towards the center of the arena.

Myself, I've given up on "Stadium" and "Arena" shows, but I'll still got to a large "Concert Hall" like Radio City.

We were actually sitting up high, but on the sides not the back, so I would think rear wall reflections would not be that big of an issue. (and since the entire rear wall in Nass Col is curved I'm not sure how much rear wall reflection there would actually be. Maybe some of our acoustic experts could weigh in on this).
But just for the record we were sitting in very similar seats for The Who and The Wall and the sound quality was night and day between them, so the hall wouldn't be the culprit.

I agree about arena shows but have to say the the best sounding show in the area in general are the summer concerts at Jones Beach I guess being an outdoor venue you don't have all the reflections to deal with and the venue is small enough that you don't need a killer size sound system. Whatever the reason the always seem to have good sound. (although I must say I thought the sound at the Paul McCartney shows at Citifield was excellent as well.)