vincent and McCormack

jimbones · June 13, 2014, 12:25:36 PM

must look at when I get home from work

Nick B · June 13, 2014, 02:18:25 PM

Since that's a SMC modded McCormack DNA-225, it should truly sound great. Heck, I'm very happy with my DNA 1.0 gold revision. As to the price, the upgrades can certainly be expensive, but Steve and Kris are constantly working to get the best sound. It would be hard to imagine a stock amp or another brand modded amp sounding as good.

jimbones · June 13, 2014, 02:57:33 PM

Yes at $2500 there is competition like Pass 150's. I really wish I knew someone within driving distance to hear one.

sleepyguy24 · June 13, 2014, 03:08:35 PM

That $2500 may not be the best deal. To me it may be about fair MV if you were to get a DNA 225 and then send it to SMc Audio for modification. Offer him $1800 to $2K to see if the seller will bite?

A used Pass Labs X5 X150 for under $2500 is a deal vs what the MSRP listed.

shadowlight · June 14, 2014, 03:33:34 PM

http://audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Amplifier-SS/McCormack/DNA-225/225-Watts/112889 - Located in NJ

http://audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Amplifier-SS/McCormack/DNA-125/Mint-Furutech-fuse-amp-BDR-Cones/110274 - Located in Raleigh, NC, United States

sleepyguy24 · July 07, 2014, 07:01:41 AM

I was checking another forum and found this entry in the McCormack debate.

"07-07-14: Audioman58
The McCormack deluxe are very good amps. But the new Van Alstine450 Synergy lineMosfet amps and their FET valve amps are very Dynamic and have 12 seperate power supply regulation. which in respects better then the McCormack runs cooler, great dynamics and control. And plays rock steady. The Synergy is also more Vacuum tube like,
With very good instrument layering especially for a Solid State amp.
It is my opinion and currently getting very popular."

Audio By Van Alstine Synergy 450

http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=165&Itemid=209

BobM · July 14, 2014, 07:09:14 AM

Although I appreciate the engineering behind Van Alstine products, Frank VA builds to a low price point and doesn't believe in boutique anything. He does have a loyal following but from what I have heard with my own ears, are not up to the performance of the McCormack amps. Although I haven't heard the piece you mentioned.

The whole point behind the McCormack mods is to incorporate boutique parts (and other design improvements) into his amps that couldn't originally be accommodated at the original selling price. These mods do indeed make a huge improvement in the sound of these already very good pieces.

jimbones · July 14, 2014, 08:17:49 AM

My concern is (1) you are taking a 20 yr old amp and modding the bleep out of it. (reliability issues?)(2) If something does go wrong there is no "company" behing Steve McCormack. It is just him. I think the value of his amps would plummet if he were unable to provide service. Seems risky to me. Although everything I have read says they sound great. In the meantime I continue to tweak my system for as much improvement as I can get until I upgrade my Amp.

Triode Pete · July 14, 2014, 08:19:19 AM

Quote from: BobM on July 14, 2014, 07:09:14 AM
Although I appreciate the engineering behind Van Alstine products, Frank VA builds to a low price point and doesn't believe in boutique anything. He does have a loyal following but from what I have heard with my own ears, are not up to the performance of the McCormack amps. Although I haven't heard the piece you mentioned.

The whole point behind the McCormack mods is to incorporate boutique parts (and other design improvements) into his amps that couldn't originally be accommodated at the original selling price. These mods do indeed make a huge improvement in the sound of these already very good pieces.

Agree 100% with Bob... Frank VA is a good engineer but is part of the "flat earth society" where cables (power, IC, digital, speaker, etc.) do not make any difference at all in sound quality... The same holds true for capacitors, resistors & other parts... if you can't measure (or measuring the "wrong thing") it, it doesn't make a difference... pretty sad that he can't hear the difference...

My $0.02,
Pete

jimbones · July 14, 2014, 08:57:17 AM

Ha ha I like the World is Flat analogy

Yes, I hear differences, I don't know why, I just accept and don't try to justify/explain it. But I do have a question for you Pete, Do you think speaker cables "burn in"? or is it just our brains/ears adjusting to the differences in sound?

Quote from: Triode Pete on July 14, 2014, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: BobM on July 14, 2014, 07:09:14 AM
Although I appreciate the engineering behind Van Alstine products, Frank VA builds to a low price point and doesn't believe in boutique anything. He does have a loyal following but from what I have heard with my own ears, are not up to the performance of the McCormack amps. Although I haven't heard the piece you mentioned.

The whole point behind the McCormack mods is to incorporate boutique parts (and other design improvements) into his amps that couldn't originally be accommodated at the original selling price. These mods do indeed make a huge improvement in the sound of these already very good pieces.

Agree 100% with Bob... Frank VA is a good engineer but is part of the "flat earth society" where cables (power, IC, digital, speaker, etc.) do not make any difference at all in sound quality... The same holds true for capacitors, resistors & other parts... if you can't measure (or measuring the "wrong thing") it, it doesn't make a difference... pretty sad that he can't hear the difference...

My $0.02,
Pete

BobM · July 14, 2014, 10:05:49 AM

According to my ears, burn in is real for anything electrical or conducting electricity, including speaker cables.

Triode Pete · July 14, 2014, 01:38:52 PM

Quote from: jimbones on July 14, 2014, 08:57:17 AM
Ha ha I like the World is Flat analogy

Yes, I hear differences, I don't know why, I just accept and don't try to justify/explain it. But I do have a question for you Pete, Do you think speaker cables "burn in"? or is it just our brains/ears adjusting to the differences in sound?

Quote from: Triode Pete on July 14, 2014, 08:19:19 AM
Quote from: BobM on July 14, 2014, 07:09:14 AM
Although I appreciate the engineering behind Van Alstine products, Frank VA builds to a low price point and doesn't believe in boutique anything. He does have a loyal following but from what I have heard with my own ears, are not up to the performance of the McCormack amps. Although I haven't heard the piece you mentioned.

The whole point behind the McCormack mods is to incorporate boutique parts (and other design improvements) into his amps that couldn't originally be accommodated at the original selling price. These mods do indeed make a huge improvement in the sound of these already very good pieces.

Agree 100% with Bob... Frank VA is a good engineer but is part of the "flat earth society" where cables (power, IC, digital, speaker, etc.) do not make any difference at all in sound quality... The same holds true for capacitors, resistors & other parts... if you can't measure (or measuring the "wrong thing") it, it doesn't make a difference... pretty sad that he can't hear the difference...

My $0.02,
Pete

Hey Jim,
Yes, all cables, including speaker cables, require burn-in. I believe that the dielectric needs conditioning and not the wire...

My $0.02,
Pete

tmazz · July 14, 2014, 04:23:29 PM

Quote from: jimbones on July 14, 2014, 08:57:17 AM

Yes, I hear differences, I don't know why, I just accept and don't try to justify/explain it. But I do have a question for you Pete, Do you think speaker cables "burn in"? or is it just our brains/ears adjusting to the differences in sound?

Jim, I heard what you are saying and while that concept does have some merit I can tell you that I have burned in any number of cables (and components) by playing them while I was at work and nobody was home and after the proper number of burn in hours was on the item I listened to them again and heard definite identifiable differences on familiar test tracks.

So, I won't say that the brain/ear adjustments you suggested don't happen , but I can say with confidence, from my own personal experience, that even if they do, there is a definite change in SQ that happens during the burn in period that occurs independently of any psycho acoustic adjustments.

sleepyguy24 · July 14, 2014, 09:33:32 PM

Quotethere is a definite change in SQ that happens during the burn in period that occurs independently of any psycho acoustic adjustments.

I definitely agree with this. That is why I'll always do burn-in on a seperate rig for the time the cable maker says their wires require burn-in. Then I'll install them on my system and let the psycho acoustic adjustments happen. That occurred to me with a set of Emotiva Ultra speaker cables. I got them and did my normal burn-in process but after they were installed I was having issues with the sound. A little later they mellowed out but something was still lacking so I gave them away.

Nick B · July 16, 2014, 08:46:14 PM

I was interested in the Van Alstine products for quite some time, but was put off by the "wires/cables don't make a difference" thinking by Frank. I have a McCormack DNA 1.0 that was modded to gold level and couldn't be happier. As to warranty issues, Steve and Kris have an excellent reputation. I have been to Steve's home and visited with both of them (Kris lives next door) IIRC, Steve and Kris have a business relationship going on 20 + years and I wouldn't worry about them not standing behind their products. They are both constantly testing and improving their products.