Author Topic: Active Acoustic Correction  (Read 10427 times)

Offline richidoo

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Active Acoustic Correction
« on: July 16, 2008, 11:50:19 AM »

miklorsmith

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 04:04:35 PM »
What a crazy looking device.  It has a microphone, a 10" driver, and what looks like a plate amp including XO frequency.  First off, the fact that it claims to trap down to 20 hz is an eye-raiser.  If it can actually perform significantly that low it would replace Volkswagon-sized conventional traps to go that low.  I question why it says it only goes up to 65 hz.  It should go to 125 hz at least.

If it can do what it says it can (two separate tuning bands simultaneously!) it looks like a killer product.  Being able to really control bass is difficult and large in-room structures are usually the only way to do it.  Also, room acoustics are notoriously unpredictable so building a big trap doesn't mean results will match intent.  It would suck to build something huge only to find out you missed the target.

It kind of looks like an inverted parametric EQ like the one I use on my speakers.  Most speakers don't allow separate bass equalization so this product could well be a near-miracle.

Or, it could be a bunch of marketing hype.   :D

Offline bpape

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 04:31:32 PM »
From what I've heard, it works pretty decently - as long as you can put it where it really needs to be.  Also, the up to 65 thing is on purpose.  Above 50Hz, you can use passive treatments much much cheaper.  It's when you get below 40Hz that passive treatments become relatively impractical.

Bryan
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 05:42:02 PM »
Would it be possible to DIY something like this? You need an EQ filter and run that out of phase with the mic signal, right? The article hype makes it seem like there is magic DSP algorithms in there. Whatya think?

Would it be better to have one large unit (15" 1000W) strategically placed, or more smaller units placed in more locations? Seems that it would be rare coincidence to find a single spot where 2 different freqs peak in pressure.
Thanks

miklorsmith

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 09:00:27 AM »
What does the thing cost?  It might have some pixie dust inside but it looks like the controls are simply XO frequency and bandwidth (Q).  My mechanical engineer buddy was trying to tell me the physics-explanation of Q which has implications way outside audio but we were having martinis and I missed it entirely.  I do understand it in a parametric EQ sense (thanks TacT and dbx) and that looks to be it from the "control room".

Conventional bass traps may be cheaper above 65 hz but they're still big and if you need two bands of trapping (say 35 hz and 80 hz) having all that function in one box would be nice.  However, Rich's concern about two peaks in one spot is a good one too.

In my room, my peaks are higher, in the 70 hz range.  Having a parametric EQ below 120 hz is a freakin' great thing to have.

Offline bpape

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 09:02:21 AM »
Yes - I supposed you could DIY it and having multiple units would likely work better.

Now, that said, just remember that while this may address frequency related aberrations, it does absolutely nothing to deal with decay time and other time domain related issues. 

Bryan
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miklorsmith

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 09:36:47 AM »
But decreasing amplitude should decrease overall energy at those bands which would have the side effect of shortening decay times as a byproduct wouldn't it? 

Offline bpape

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 09:49:14 AM »
At those bands - yes.  On the other 98% of the spectrum - nada.  So, we could knock down those 2 bands to be where we wanted them and have the rest of the subwoofer'ish range still muddying things up - taking well over a full second to get down into the noise floor.  That's why broadband treatments as opposed to tightly targeted ones usually are the best choice.

You also have to remember that if you don't get the center frequency and Q EXACTLY correct, you can actually make the ringing worse at a frequency very close to where the actual problem is. 

Don't get me wrong, something like this IMO is preferable to just pure EQ - it's just not an answer for everything nor a replacement for proper broadband treatment.  It's another tool to be used in addition to.

Bryan
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 09:54:58 AM by bpape »
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miklorsmith

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 09:54:00 AM »
Ah - that makes sense.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 10:41:52 AM »
It's good as a small adjustable helmholtz. That can be extremely important in some cases with a big resonance at a certain freq, and no space, desire or budget to build a large enough resonator to kill it.  But not not an acoustic cure-all.   It will be interesting to see more active developments like this in the future.

My neighbor was telling me about these Bose active headphones he got. He can mow the lawn and listen to tunes. He was on an airplane ride with an obnoxious screaming brat that other adults were yelling from rear seats to shut up but it wouldn't - but he never knew about it. He was embarrassed to tell me how much they cost ($300), but I told him it was OK, I understand.....  I didn't tell him that I have $500 earbuds and still want even better ones. :rofl:

How bout a 4x8 sheet of active membrane mounted to wall/ceiling, individual acoustic "pixels" react to pressure sensors on the surface according to software. Dial your whole ROOM for stadium, club, anechoic acoustic simulation.  Dial 300 - 1500ms decay, or EQ whatever decay you want at frequency to compensate for furnishings. Bryan, you got something like that at SSS;) 

Offline bpape

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 11:23:43 AM »
Ummmm, no, nothing like that unfortunately.  Sounds like something I could get a lot of money for though.  I'll have to work on it...

Bryan
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miklorsmith

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 11:53:17 AM »
I'll pay.

I got some cheapo noise killer headphones when I bought my last computer and ya know, they work really well with airplane noise and such.  They're so pleasant I leave them powered up and on my head even when no music is coming through.  I don't know the db cancellation but it's significant.  I don't think they would get rid of yelling kid noise tho.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2008, 12:05:38 PM »

Black Sand Cable

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 12:56:01 PM »
These are they:   
http://www.bose.com/controller?event=view_product_page_event&product=qc2_headphones_index
They cover the ears. 

These are they?  :rofl:

As for the link...Bose...who buys Bose?  :duh

westcoastman

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Re: Active Acoustic Correction
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 02:24:23 PM »
These are they:   
http://www.bose.com/controller?event=view_product_page_event&product=qc2_headphones_index
They cover the ears. 

These are they?  :rofl:

As for the link...Bose...who buys Bose?  :duh
I did :lol: The QuietComfort 2 for travelling or listening to TV with the doors and windows open. Downtown Vancouver, BC can get pretty noisey most times and when it's hot out the windows and balcony doors are wide open. Otherwise I use may AKG-701s