Toe In - Crossing In Front of the Listening Position

[richidoo]

Links fixed...

AudioNervosa link:
Audiocircle link 1:
Audiocircle link 2:
Audiogon Forum link:

I've not yet tried rollo's disk, but Master set has some benefits.

[StereoNut]

Thanks, Rich.

Sorry for the "techno-screwup" on my part! 

SN

[mdconnelly]

I spent probably 4+ hours with Master Set and I "think" I improved things, but I also discovered that attempting to find that sweet spot with the first speaker while the 2nd is still against the wall is... challenging/frustrating/annoying/eye-opening.   

I never did find an ideal spot that I felt was substantially better and I never did get the speakers placed such that the soundstage held regardless of where I sat in the room.   But I do think I have a bigger, deeper soundstage with better defined bass.   I think... 

It's a learning process and likely a very good one, but it takes a lot of patience (on both my part and that of anyone else in the house

[richidoo]

It's a learning process and likely a very good one, but it takes a lot of patience (on both my part and that of anyone else in the house

The horse song is maddening!  Glad you were able to get some learning from it.

[Carlman]

The only thing I've found the master set useful for is learning how speaker placement impacts bass.  It also taught me I don't have the patience to work so hard on something I don't really believe in.  I sort-of got it but in the end I thought it was a good start, rather than a complete method.  

Rich spent many hours more than me and got a bit more out of it but I still don't think it has repeatable and predictable results that are inline with what is claimed (imaging everywhere, no compromises in bass).  If you tinker with anything long enough, you'll eventually get what you want.. But the purpose of a method is to get there quicker.  I didn't think the Master Set did that.  But then, if the master set is a free sharing, learning experience, then it has done its job.. got people thinking and experimenting.

I will write a new speaker placement method either on my own or with Rich in 2010.  I'll tweak it and get others to try it.  Then of course, sell it!  There is no such thing as no compromises.  However, the method I use can balance the sound in whatever direction you prefer and you can alter the balance predictably.. (moving speakers in a direction adds bass in certain frequencies, diminishes soundstage depth or width, etc.)  So it has compromises but you choose them.  

In any case, toe angle is extremely important.. just like on car suspension.

-C

[mdconnelly]

The Wilson Audio set-up Procedure (WASP) seems based on a similar principle to Master Set ...

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html

It still depends upon your ears to discern changes in low bass within the room but also employs some fundamental math in the speaker to listener ratio and angles.

Fundamentally, it strikes me that there ought to be a way to quantify how this is done through some fairly simple measurements.   Carl - can't wait to see what you and Rich come up with!