Maggie 1.7

[richidoo]

His Rainy Night in Georgia is one of his test tracks that he plays on everything, same tracks year after year. You will see it mentioned throughout his reviews. There is a lot of between the lines in there. I'd love to hear them  with a nice tube amp.

[Bigfish8]

I'd love to hear them  with a nice tube amp.

Based on Maggie Reputation it had better be a powerful tube amp.

Ken

[bpape]

Maggies are ALWAYS something special.  The 1.6's blew me away in a huge room.  1.7's with all ribbons, unless they TOTALLY screwed up should be gorgeous to listen to.

Bryan

[richidoo]

So Bryan they are real ribbons as opposed to the planar ribbons?   You must mean on the tweets, right?

[Rob S.]

good ?,  the way I read it was that the QR (quasi ribbon) which handles hi's on  every model below the 3 series has it.   And the 1.7 from what limited reading I've done, the reviewer said was that the bass driver was also a QR, unlike the earlier models magnetic planar (mylar).   Rich, I'll show you the difference, as I have both speaker socks exposed ( I took off the decorative trim)   I can get these speakers naked for you.

I would really like to hear the 1.7's,  wonder how the quasi ribbon on the lows will sound.  I have no idea what limitations it might have, I thought the material was only used in the tweeter section.   

Rob S.

[rollo]

  Yes the 1.7s will be considered bargin when the smoke settles. The smaller Maggies below the "3" series are VG for the price and will give you a taste of the Maggie sound. Saying that the "3"series is where the real Maggies show up.
  If one cannot afford the "3" save until you can. IMO the real ribbon is what makes the Maggies special. I have used SS and tubes with the Maggies. For me the high powered tube amp is the way to hear them in all their glory. An expensive way to go yes, however the results are staggering. If one goes the SS route I would recco a tubed Pre or CDP in the chain.
  If one has a listening room that is rectangular your in like Flynn. Either the long wall or short will work. The short wall is preferred with the tweeters on the OUTSIDE. Absorption on rear wall and diffusion at rear wall. As far as subs go you'll need a fast one to stay with the panels. Sunfire subs have a VG synergy with Maggies. Depending on the music you listen to a sub may not be required unless your DAD is E. Biggs [ organ]. If your a head banger SS and dual subs just NO 115DB sessions.
  Guys it took the Pipedream speakers to pull me away from the Maggies which resided in our home for 12 years.
   If you are in the NJ area go see John Rutan at "The Sound Connection and have a listen. Not many set them up better than him. Both SS and tubed amps to listen to.
   If you treasure top end  performance like me unless you have Ravens or 24 silk domes per side[ Pipes] tweeters the Maggie ribbon is the end all IMO tweeter. If one has metal tweeters in their speakers listen to a Maggie true ribbon as the "Who" said " You won't be fooled again.
  Richadoo they would sing in your big room. The bite of the horn the squeal of the Violin is there in spades.



charles

[richidoo]

Nice post Charlie, thanks man!!

[Rob S.]

Rollo:   if you ever pass through Charleston, WV, I could use your skills with setting these IIIa's up.  Can't get them to sound "just right".   Their close to the modded .6qr's w/subs I have but lack the magic.  Maybe some crossover work would help them along with better placement.

Rich:  see if you can bring up the big AR tube amp to run my 3a's biamped.  Before I sell the 3a's I need to get placement "just right"

Rob S.

[rollo]

Rollo:   if you ever pass through Charleston, WV, I could use your skills with setting these IIIa's up.  Can't get them to sound "just right".   Their close to the modded .6qr's w/subs I have but lack the magic.  Maybe some crossover work would help them along with better placement.

Rich:  see if you can bring up the big AR tube amp to run my 3a's biamped.  Before I sell the 3a's I need to get placement "just right"

Rob S.

  When Richadoo makes some copies of the Sheffield/XLO test disc it will help bigtime. no need to modify to get them right. Try 6 to 7 feet apart tweeters on the outside and toed in about 2 inches. then move your seat back and forth until you like what you hear. Then put on that disc and listen to the out of phase track. Move the RIGHT [move one speaker only] speaker only starting with front to back, then toe in to enhance the out of phase voice until it sounds like its coming from all around the room.

  The distance between is not as critical as how far from the wall boundaries they are. you need at least 3 ft from side walls and as much from the rear wall as possible in your room.
   A freaken 1/2 inch can make a difference, so be patient.Use a track your familiar with, program CDP to repeat a 30 second play and listen over and over until your happy.
  Two people are required so get a cracking.


charles

[Emil]

 Charlie/Ron
Have you trid the cardas method for dipole placement. I believe you do need a rectangular room.

I've tried it recently and like it. Does load the room differently then where I had them before.

i have the tweets on the inside with about 2 inches of toe in

http://www.cardas.com/speaker_placement.php?type=dipole

[_Scotty_]

Rob,the toe-in is also critical. The speakers have a pronounced horizontal venetian blind effect and the toe-in must be adjusted to produce the flattest frequency response at the sweet-spot. With the wrong toe-in and positioning too close to the back and side walls you won't get everything they are capable of.
Scotty

[richidoo]

I was surprised that the Cardas calculator (thanks Emil) put my imaginary Maggies centers 4.5 feet away from the sidewalls. I would not have thought that they, being dipoles, would prefer to be so far away from sidewalls.

[_Scotty_]

While the front radiation is out phase with that emitted from the rear the cancellation of radiation due to wrap around from front to rear really isn't that significant until the wave-lengths are perhaps more than twice as long as the width of the speakers baffle. You still want to spread the time out between the directly radiated sound reaching the listening position and the sound hitting the first reflection point,both to the rear of the speaker and to the side walls. The focus in the sound-stage will be better the further the panels are away from the room boundaries. The reflections from behind the loud-speaker cause interference with the localization of instruments with-in the sound-stage. There is a conflict inherent in positioning Maggies in the listening room. On the one hand you are trying to maximize the bass the speaker can produce at the listening position,this requires room boundary reinforcement which mandates placing them in proximity to the walls of the listening room. On the other hand they will image better if they are not too close to the front wall and sidewalls.  Satisfactory performance of the loudspeakers involves arriving at a compromise location that maximizes the bass and the image quality the Maggies can produce. An individual user will frequently trade-off one aspect of performance over the other especially if room treatment is not possible. Using acoustic treatments to the side and rear of the speakers will help reduce the impact of the radiation emitted to the rear and side on the the imaging and allow you to more easily optimize the speakers bass output.
Scotty
   

[tmazz]

I ran the Cardas Calcs for my room dimensions (both the standard version and the special version for dipoles and came up with some intersting results both calculators told me to place my speakers thesame distance from the sidewalls, but the dipole calc told me to place a set of dipoles 1 1/2 feet closer to the back wall. This kind of flies in the face of the generally accept thought that Maggies (or any dipole) are harder to place in a room because they need to be further away from the walls than dynamic speakers. And while I have never had a set of dipoles in my mancave and therefore cannot attest to the accuracy of the dipole numbers, I will say that the results from the standard calculator are spot on. I have spent the last 25 years tweaking the placement of my Thiel speakers by ear and the measurements out of the Cardas calculator are off by no more than 2 - 3 inches from where my speakers sit today. And some of those differences are most likely caused by the asymmetrical placement of furnature and equipment and record racks.

Bottom line is while the final dial in has to be done by ear (I would listen using the Sheffield disc), I would say that the Cardas calculator will give you a really good place to start from if you have a rectangular room.

[richidoo]

When I had Quad 2905s they liked to be 6 feet out from the front wall. I started at 8 and pushed back a little at a time until I could hear them start to thicken up. But they did not like to be as far apart as my dynamic speakers. Maybe the same with the Maggies, which Cardas puts closer together than the optimal location for my cone speakers.