e-Lips

[richidoo]

A lot of experimenting with convolver the last 2 days. A long, sometimes frustrating, story, but I finally got it to work in an audio host called Bidule. But I am getting pops and clicks every 1 second, like an old scratched LP. Same thing in another host called Console. No pops in JRiver using same VST plugin, but I can't route channels correctly there so I only get the bass. I may have to give up the external DAC and use 4 analog channels out of my soundcard.   Then I can use JRiver as VST host, but won't be able to play external analog sources. No vinyl. 

Between the clicks I was able to hear the sound of the speakers with convoluted EQ and crossovers and room correction. It is very nice. 

[stereofool]

Hey, Rich...want me to bring some extra speakers...just kidding  ! Or, maybe just in case  .

[richidoo]

These will be working even if my freeware computer crossover is still lame, because Rob S. is bringing his DEQX which can do everything I'm trying to do and more. That's what you get when you pay - actual results!    But maybe yes... I'll PM you.

[richidoo]

Presonus discontinued my soundcard today.    

Maybe that's why the tech abruptly closed my service request ticket last week without sending latest firmware. Whew, good riddance!   But at least they made a new driver good up to Win7 before pulling the plug. It still works and sounds good...

[Barry (NJ)]

Rich, you are an extremely talented individual. Your e-Lips speakers really do look fantastic.

Well done sir, well done.

[richidoo]

Hey thanks Barry!! 

I got rid of the clicks. The Convolver filter has some settings than need to be tuned to the CPU. I increased "Partitions" (whatever that means) from the lowest (0) to the highest (16) and the clicks were gone. It reduces lag time (whatever that is), so I think my CPU was too fast for 0, and was tripping over itself. I don't know, but it's gone. Phew!  Now to fine tune the sound.  And it does need fine tuning. There is a paperish midrange that badly needs to be adjusted.  With Digital EQ it should be easy. I'm glad to finally have them running to the point where tweaking can begin.

The scan that I am using now was taken with the mic near the leather couch which is very reflective. Lots of acoustic treatments going up this week which will help too.

[richidoo]

I found another VST host, which I like the best so far. I was worth suffering the clicks and incorrectly blaming the hosts in order to search for another host until I found this one. I think it is new because not many posts on their support forum.   Anyway, it works well, easy to configure, and lots of very cool tools for monitoring and manipulating, even recording audio on the computer.

http://www.audiomulch.com/

[Face]

To eliminate floor bounce while measuring, I place the mic approximately 3' away from the speaker with a bass trap elevated 6" off the floor between them.

[richidoo]

Thanks. This software AudioLense measures the room and speaker together at the same time. But DEQX does measure drivers separately at close range before measuring the room.

[richidoo]

Finally got some time to work on the software settings.

I wasn't really happy with the full tilt automatic treatment of "fix everything, make it perfect." It was tight and without soul, like some high feedback SS amps. I moved up the crossover point from 300Hz to 600Hz, with 2 octave width. So the crossover is fairly shallow between 300 and 1200 and infinite outside that. I moved it up to keep the Feastrex totally out of its resonance and the impedance nice and flat at 14ohms. I was surprised that there was much difference in the overall sound. Then I cut off the room correction above 400Hz. Wow!

The visegrip was off the neck of the Feastrex and it began to do it's magical thing again. Correction forces all the problems out of the driver, making a perfectly flat frequency response. But it also sucks out the life. But the correction on the bottom flattens out the bass nicely, and allows boost to make the frequency response follow the target curve perfectly. I may lower the correction cutoff even further, down below the crossover.  I think I tried that already and it screwed up the simulated FR.

I did put some boost on the bass, like -6dB@ 30Hz, -20dB @20Hz to bring it closer to flat.  It sounds really nice, really detailed and musical. But I think it can take more, so I'll add in a little more boost tomorrow. Treble is rolling off at around 12kHz. Plenty enough to enjoy the music, but with the correction removed up top the automatic boost to the target line is not in effect. Since they beam at high freqs I can experiment with aiming them more straight on.  They are designed to shoot over the head because they are too hot on axis, but shooting over the head should make straight on listening be just about right.

I ended up choosing a cool little program called AudioMulch for hosting the crossover plugin, and routing the digital signals. It is very easy to use, doesn't crash, and great help files. The developer pointed me to a cool program called Virtual Audio Cable, also recommended by mojave on AC, which will allow me to send sound from any media player or acoustic analyzer into AudioMulch for processing. Mulch is much more flexible than trying to run the processing inside a media player as a plugin. Audiomulch lets me use analog ins, digital in, or file... and now with VAC I can use a media player also.  I can connect several analog sources to the soundcard (4 analog and one digital inputs) and use the mixer in Audiomulch to switch them in and out. I can easily record any internet stream or analog input to disk. CPU pushes about 3% peak. On some of the other VST hosts 9% was the norm.

The best part of the day was hearing it finally start to sound good. I was worried it might not come alive before the meet. Now I think I can get there with a little more tweaking.

[richidoo]

OK, done licking my wounds and catching up on sleep after the 2AM g2g. We finally got the thing to work using Robs DEQX. But none of the PC based crossovers worked at crunchtime. Reliability is important. Even with DEQX, the Feastrex in OB seems to be a little unhinged. It doesn't sound that bad runnign direct from the amp, so I wonder what the DEQX is trying to make it do that it doesn't want to do. Clarinets sounded like kazoo, I do not exagerate.  Everytime i try to play this driver at G2G it turns to Mr Hyde.

Next morning I stuck it back in the sealed box and it behaved much better, but still not a hifi speaker. It will always be colored with paper and wizzer.

Anyway, next chapter for ELIps does not include Feastrex. It will be a 3 way, using AE Speakers new Dipole 6 mids which are designed to match their Dipole 12s that I am using in the bass. They cost 1/25th that of my  Feastrex cheapest model. I am in decision process to sell the Feastrex.

While Rob was here he was upgrading his own speakers' tweeters and left the discards with me for Elips 2. Scan D3004.6600 illuminator soft domes.  The new drivers should fit on the baffle just fine. Although routing new holes will be interesting now that the baffle is glued to base.

I am leaving the PC crossover behind for now. It might work OK for some, but I need it to be easier and more reliable. I like the one box preamp concept of the DEQX, but I want it cheaper and simpler. Although I am pretty excited to hear Rob's all dialed in this winter.  So I'm looking at Rane RPM26z processor. Analog and digital inputs and 6 outputs to make a 3 way. Control it over the net, all kinds of filters, processing and even 31 band EQ with linear phase. Rane has a great reputation for good sound, and I am pretty sure that's what Granada is using for crossover.

Someone on DIYAudio posted that its opamps are generic JRC 4580/5532s, and the DAC is AKM4356
http://stereophile.com/news/10573/

But all Rane Speaker management processors use the same DAC and DSP engines, and they are installed in some pretty heavy situations, like recording studio monitors, film preview screening studios, etc. Anybody with experience with Rane products?
Thanks
Rich

[Bigfish8]

Anyway, next chapter for ELIps does not include Feastrex. It will be a 3 way, using AE Speakers new Dipole 6 mids which are designed to match their Dipole 12s that I am using in the bass.

Rich,

When you add the midrange drivers will this require you to make a larger baffle? 

Ken

[richidoo]

No they will all fit on this one. If it sounds good then I will make the metal baffle a little bigger for appearance. If I lowered the woofers I wouldn't need to enlarge it, but I like the whole ellipse shape on the front, so the woofers need to be higher to fit on it.

[Face]

It looks like you're taking a few steps in the right direction.

Those are excellent tweeters, very low distortion, flat response, and can be crossed pretty low.  I've used them in one application so far and will be using them again in my current build.

As for that mid, this may change your mind: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=37341  These would match your woofers: http://madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1595  These would also make an excellent OB mid, but have fun recessing it: http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=243

I have no experience with Rane, but have a feeling you'll eventually upgrade to the DEQX. 

[richidoo]

That's awesome Face, thank you!!! I'm also considering Scan Illuminator and Jantzen JA8008, and looking ahead to other projects I want to build.

I have the schematic for the Rane. There are some good mod options there.