Planning for a turntable with 12" tonearm

[jsaliga]

Not in this group, you must think you're on a different forum. 

I know where I'm posting Gene, at least I think I do.

But I can accept that I may be the only one here who thinks the project was on the expensive side.  And...my sentiment might just be a reflection of recent (and future) investments in my vinyl set up.  A few short months ago I bought the Aesthetix Rhea phono preamp, and I still have a Koetsu Rosewood Signature to buy.

--Jerome

[tmazz]

Jerome, first off I'm glad to hear that this TT is working out so well. You have put a lot of time and effort into this project and it is good to know that it is paying dividends for you.

I don't think that Gene's point was that it wasn't an expensive purchase, but rather that most people in this forum would understand it as a worthwhile endevor, in spite of the cost, given the number of mono LPs you own, the enjoyment you get from them and the increase in SQ (and therefore enjoyment) that will result from playing them on this new table. High cost and high value do not need to be mutually exclusive.

[eleazar]

And I agree with Tom that was my take on what Gene said. We all get it and are so glad your happy with your new TT 

[jsaliga]

I was reflecting on the cost of the project and to a somewhat lesser extent its value.  I had justified it, or rationalized it (take your pick), some months ago and given how it has turned out I don't regret doing it at all.

Since this project came together in parts, that is really how I looked at the costs.  So I would think to myself, "$1,100 for two tonearms is a bargain," or "$580 for a Ortofon SPU mono cartridge is a great deal."  My thinking on that hasn't changed.  However, I never sat down and estimated the total cost of the project in advance.  And that is something that I would highly recommend that anyone going a similar route do.

When all is said and done the completed Garrard 401 was $1,800 less expensive than a Origin Live Resolution, which is one of the modern decks I was thinking of buying.  So choosing the Garrard 401 did result in a substantial cost savings.

In the end guys I just think I was a little surprised at myself when I added it all up and saw that I put $5K into this deck.

--Jerome

[etcarroll]

And I agree with Bill's take on Tom's take on.................

Ah, screw it.

But Jerome, Tom got it. If there's a group of folks who would look at what you're doing and think 'wow, that looks neat', versus the masses who would think 'wow, that's money that could have been spent better', then this is the group.

Have fun with it, it looks like a great setup, I'm a little envious.

Gene

[Triode Pete]

Jerome,
I think it's well worth it! If I had the space in my main rig & if I had the large quantity of mono records you have, I'd be there right with you...

Now I really know that there's such a huge difference using "mono equipment" with mono recordings instead of using a stereo pick-up for all recordings.

Would like to hear the difference one day... hint, hint...

Snowing on LI,
Pete

[jsaliga]

Here is some info on the cartridge set ups...

The overhang, offset, and alignment on the Dynavector was set with the MoFi Geodisc and double checked with a universal alignment protractor.  The Ortofon SPU has a fixed overhang and offset but the alignment was also set with the Geodisc and double checked.

The Ortofon SPU CG25 DI MKII mono has a VTF of 3.4g
The Dynavector 20X2L has a VTF 1.8g.

I have spun several records on both cartridges and they both sound and track great.

Here are some initial thoughts on the deck and the sound.

The deck is a solid and hefty piece.  It's an idler wheel design but it is dead quiet and I cannot detect any noise coming from the platform up through the stylus.  The plinth is massive, and originally I was going to buy some Symposium Acoustics isolation blocks...but Bill came to the rescue and sent me some inexpensive isolation pads that seem to be doing the trick quite nicely (Thanks Bill!!   ).

The Garrard 401 has very stable speed at 33 and 45 RPM.  But does drift a little until the motor has been running for a couple of minutes.  So I let the deck warm up for a few minutes and then set the speed with a Keystrobe.  I can't use the deck's built in strobe because my platter is for 50Hz.  I then turned the deck off and let it sit for a half hour, and put a record on after letting it warm up for a couple of minutes and the speed was stable.

The Jelco tonearms are real winners in my book.  If I have one criticism it would be that the queuing levers are not damped as much as I would like.  If you queue the stylus and flip the lever down then it will hit the record with a thud.  I didn't do that because I could tell that this would happen by the action of the lever.  Lowering the queuing lever gently will give the stylus a nice gentle ride down to the record's surface.  Obviously this arm doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles -- nor should it at its price point.  Setting VTA is crude with this arm.  There are no markings on the arm pillar and one must set VTA by eye.  I used a plastic protractor to help me with that.  Setting VTF is a different story.  The counter weight has graduated markings in 1/2 gram increments.  Anti-skate is set by a dial at the base of the arm and goes up to 3g.  Putting the few minor foibles of the Jelco arms aside for a moment they really deliver where it counts  -- sound quality.  The performance of these arms compares very favorably to my SME 309 and I consider them the equal of the classic SME 3009 Series II -- and I think that is saying a lot.  

How does it sound?  In a word...fantastic.  I have already discussed how huge a difference it makes when using a true mono cartridge with vintage mono pressings, so I won't say anything further on that.

But I would like to comment on the Dynavector 20X2L.  I have owned this cartridge for a while as a backup and until now it has never been out of the box.  So far I am extremely impressed by this cartridge.  It brings a little better bass extension to the table than my Ortofon Jubilee.  Detail retrieval isn't quite as good as my Jubilee but I can say that even with just a few hours on it that the Dynavector produces a very rich, satisfying listening experience and it makes me curious about what the more expensive Dynavector cartridges such as the XX-2 or  Kaitora Rua have on offer.  If you're on the market for an excellent low output MC cart for under $1,000 then the 20X2L should be on your short list.

--Jerome

[tmazz]

But one of the key take aways for those of us watching this experiment is how truely beneficial it is to have a mono cart. For those of us that have a tone arm that allows easy swapping of carts (and the requisite VTA changes), like the VPI JWM series, this can be accomplished with a minimum of fuss and it opens you up to a whole world of new software possibilities since very often mono copies of things like old Blue Note and RCS Living Stereo LPs are tossed in the dollar bins because "who wants monos?" Of course this is not always the case as another Hank Mobley seep groove mono LP sold on ebay last week for $4100   (God bless the collectors market), but more often than not the monos are just tossed aside. A mono cart will also let you get good sound out of less than pristine mono LPs, even further widening  your possibilities. (There are few things more disheartening in this hobby than coming across an LP you have been searching for , only to find it scratched up to the point that you wouldn't be able to enjoy listening to it.

To an LP hunter who is able to easily do it it would seem that adding a mono cart to his stable would be a worthy investment -hint hint Gene  (it's so much fun spending other peoples money  )

[tmazz]

Of course in my case this would be a very expensive upgrade. Not only would I have to change out the SME Series IV arm to get something that allowed easy cart swaps, but then I would have a contractor build an addition on my house to store all the mono LPs I have been up until now ignoring and leaving behind on my trips to the Crack House.   


Maybe this wouldn't be such a good idea in my case after all...... 

[etcarroll]

Your killing me here Tom. But the thought of getting a mono cart has been on my to do list, though far down the list due to $$$. Still, Jerome's results simply make me want to do it all the more.

And I'm pleased he likes the Dyna cart. as it's my main cart. Though the time I was swapping it back and forth with the Shelter 501 Mk II showed the Dyna was good in bass and mids, but lacked a little detail up top in comparison, so I too wonder what the better Dynavector carts. might do for my setup.

To an LP hunter who is able to easily do it it would seem that adding a mono cart to his stable would be a worthy investment -hint hint Gene  (it's so much fun spending other peoples money  )

[tmazz]

Your killing me here Tom.

Hey, what are friends for?   

[jsaliga]

I am liking so much of what I am hearing with this Garrard 401 that I am seriously thinking about retiring my SOTA.  Rather than add another deck I think the proceeds of a sale would be better used to help fund the purchase of a QOL Signal Completion Stage, assuming that after I demo one I will want to buy it.

--Jerome

[BobM]

Hey Jerome. Glad to hear that all this hard work and effort and cost is paying off for you in spades. It is really satisfying to know that you are liking it. The deal with the mono cartridge is indeed intriguing. Who would have thought it!

The table itself looks awesome too, and that is only another plus after all. No matter how much people say it is only about the sound, they are lying. The esthetic matters just as much to appease our fragile egos and pride.