I've Got Some SET Amp Questions...

[bhobba]

Honest ?? Agenda ? Does bhobba sell these amps ?  WE sell them as you know. OYE !!

Of course I don't sell them and have zero financial interest if they sell or not.

I am simply relating my experience and asking people to have a listen.

Regarding the Ncores.  I too got caught up in its hoopla and a guy here in Aus sent a pair up to me to check out. Good - especially for the money - but that's it - not the world beaters it was claimed.  But what did I loose - simply a bit of time in listening to them and taking them around to a few friends places to see what they thought.  All good fun.

The same with the Arions - simply give them a listen and see what you think.  If you dont like em - fine - post it - if you do post that - I certainly won't worry about it.  That however cant be said about the Ncore cadre - when I posted what I thought  - boy did I get a blast.  It was not on this site - I hasten to say - guys here are generally very tolerant I have to say.

Thanks
Bill

[topround]

Bill,
I wasn't trying to knock you or Charles. The OP stated a question about SET amps, how it morphed into a sales pitch for the Arion class D amps annoyed me.

This is a site for people to ask questions and relay their experiences, if every question has the same answer then why bother with the site.

Perhaps Charles, a dealer, should have aproached the OP with a PM, and privately converse commerce.
Some people have mentioned they like the Arions and some didn't, be that as it may, the OP is interested in SET amps, SET amps have a certain magic that eludes other amps, it can't do everything but no amp can. So we choose the amps that compromises in areas we care less about.

I know Charles well and wish him no harm in business, not trying to be a "cockblocker" :thumb:but we should stick to the subject and not use every opportunity to try to sell something.

my .2 cents...and I know I am a pain in the ass, but I know more people will probaby agree with me than not on this subject.


Looking foward to hearing some more SET's at Deepak's

Mike

[Ecramer]

I love 845. Mastersound Mono845s knocked me out when I heard them at RMAF 2008.

That was an excellent system.....even I STILL remember that room.....loved it !!! (Bring lots of money... )



Kaiser Kawero loudspeakers with Mastersound amplifiers and the Less Loss DAC....good stuff. 

Those are some seriously good speakers on my if i hit the power ball list 

[machinehead]

They are cool looking speakers. How much?

[Ecramer]

They are cool looking speakers. How much?

http://www.lessloss.com/loudspeakers-c-78.html

about the same as a nicely equipped suv

the cross over parts

[Triode Pete]

They are cool looking speakers. How much?

http://www.lessloss.com/loudspeakers-c-78.html

about the same as a nicely equipped suv

the cross over parts

Sounds like "MoreLoss" of cash, that is... 

[Ecramer]

They are cool looking speakers. How much?

http://www.lessloss.com/loudspeakers-c-78.html

about the same as a nicely equipped suv

Sounds like "MoreLoss" of cash, that is... 

That is certainly the truth.    the things you see when you have no cash. I've heard plenty of speakers over the years as every one else has that hangs around here and other sites like this has.  There has been 4 or 5 speakers in the 40k to 60k range that brought a big smile to my face when giving the opportunity to sit in the sweet spot. And lots more that i liked the speakers i have at my house better. That's about the price point i run out of ear power for speakers 


I'm sure we all have a short or long list of things we lust after.

[BobM]

Look at the size of those parts! Makes me feel like a wee child again sitting at the "big" table in the "big" chair with the "big" people. These won't retrofit in anything that is previously owned, you have to design separately for something this big.

I was looking at some .1uF Dueland Alexandra caps to use as a bypass (Partsconnexion has a good sale going on). These are actually smaller than the CAST series, but they were still 1" x 2" in size. They are only .1uF for God's sake. Anyway, too big for the space I wanted to use them in. So, find something else.

[rollo]

Bill,
I wasn't trying to knock you or Charles. The OP stated a question about SET amps, how it morphed into a sales pitch for the Arion class D amps annoyed me.

This is a site for people to ask questions and relay their experiences, if every question has the same answer then why bother with the site.

Perhaps Charles, a dealer, should have approached the OP with a PM, and privately converse commerce.
Some people have mentioned they like the Arions and some didn't, be that as it may, the OP is interested in SET amps, SET amps have a certain magic that eludes other amps, it can't do everything but no amp can. So we choose the amps that compromises in areas we care less about.

I know Charles well and wish him no harm in business, not trying to be a "cockblocker" :thumb:but we should stick to the subject and not use every opportunity to try to sell something.

my .2 cents...and I know I am a pain in the ass, but I know more people will probaby agree with me than not on this subject.


Looking forward to hearing some more SET's at Deepak's

Mike

  Sorry you see it that way. It was not a sales pitch. Just relaying my personal experience with my personal system.
  If it is perceived as a sales pitch I get excited about our hobby. My enthusiasm is mistaken for pitch. The Arions are well out of the OP range.
  Hey I'm the first dealer here to advise going to another Manf. or dealer for a component that I do not carry.
   My purpose here is to inform not sell. Sorry you see it that way.
   I will stand by my comment that in direct comparison to my SET the Arions were just better on the Pipedreams.



charles

[lonewolfny42]

....about the same as a nicely equipped suv ...

Back in 2008...the Kaiser Kawero's were a bit less....now running ....a lot more.


Retail price, per stereo pair, including shipment from Germany:

    Painted semi-gloss: $56,000
    Wood veneer (*) or carbon fibre front baffle: $58,000
    Precision mirror finish clear lacquer (additional minimum of five weeks lead time): $68,000

Those Mastersound Mono Blocks are up there as well....over $17,000.00 a pair now...

http://www.mastersoundsas.it/master%201_1_ing/845_monoblock.htm

[bhobba]

Looking foward to hearing some more SET's at Deepak's

That's what we need - more listening and posting what we hear.  Great stuff.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

There has been 4 or 5 speakers in the 40k to 60k range that brought a big smile to my face when giving the opportunity to sit in the sweet spot. And lots more that i liked the speakers i have at my house better. That's about the price point i run out of ear power for speakers 

It isn't just price that makes me run out of ear power - although its a factor.

It's when I hear the markup margins.  By all reports the Majicos are fine speakers incorporating SOA resonance control - but when I heard they sell at nine times the cost of parts my eyes sort of glazed over and wonder what you get for that markup.  I know in Singapore when new Majico's were released they held a Champagne and Cavear breakfast - and it was not cheap domestic stuff either - it was Bollinger.  Someone has to pay for that - guess what - its the consumer.  Not picking on Majico - others do it as well.

Thanks
Bill

[Response Audio]

Wow, doing work with Duelund myself, I know those parts cost more than most finished speakers. unfortunately, I have yet to hear another capacitor that provides the same presentation.

Back to the OP. in the end, it is up to his ears and wallet to make the final decision. We can pass along recommendations all day long but if he can't audition them for himself, it has to read between the lines and soak everything in.

There are lots of good amplifiers out there within all different designs. Class-D, Class-A, PP tube, SET and the list goes on. We all have our preferences but we cannot debate about what is better.

I have Class-D, solid state, tubes and our own PSE 300B. What I prefer is what makes me happy on any given day. I wouldn't give any of them up completely.

Every product has its place in the market.

As far as pricing and markup on products, that's something you will never avoid. However, that's a discussion that needs a whole new thread of its own and even then, nothing would be settled.

[rollo]

Wow, doing work with Duelund myself, I know those parts cost more than most finished speakers. unfortunately, I have yet to hear another capacitor that provides the same presentation.

Back to the OP. in the end, it is up to his ears and wallet to make the final decision. We can pass along recommendations all day long but if he can't audition them for himself, it has to read between the lines and soak everything in.

There are lots of good amplifiers out there within all different designs. Class-D, Class-A, PP tube, SET and the list goes on. We all have our preferences but we cannot debate about what is better.

I have Class-D, solid state, tubes and our own PSE 300B. What I prefer is what makes me happy on any given day. I wouldn't give any of them up completely.

Every product has its place in the market.

As far as pricing and markup on products, that's something you will never avoid. However, that's a discussion that needs a whole new thread of its own and even then, nothing would be settled.

  Well said Bill could not agree more about the Deulunds. Same for components. There is no best just what is best for the listener.
    I was trying to say that just because an amp is an SET that one size does not fit all. I'm sure with the right speaker it will sound great. In my case with my speaker it did not in direct comparison with a hybrid class "D".
     When I use my Omega single driver speakers the SET betters the class "D" in direct comparison.
    So the lesson would be pick the amp for the speaker. BTW guys Parts Connections sale of Deulund is still on. Just ordered some Cast .1 tube coupling caps @ $186 ea. for our preamp. Hedging on the Cast 1.0 for the Arions. Still $460 for the pair ouch !!! However as you say they are the cat's meow.
    Started with the Alexandra series and was pleased with he outcome. The Cast series may be a tad warmer than the Alexandra. Do you have an opinion on the character difference ?


charles

[bhobba]

Wow, doing work with Duelund myself, I know those parts cost more than most finished speakers. unfortunately, I have yet to hear another capacitor that provides the same presentation.

Welcome to the club.  All my equipment (I have speakers, DAC's and amps using them) has them where possible - but the cost - ahhhhhh.  Once heard though no going back.

My new speakers that I have on order use Duelund Cast and each capacitor costs more than the total cost of the drivers by a huge margin.  They are the single most expensive part.  They are lined with 1/4 inch copper plate which is also pricey but the Cast even costs more than that.  Why does the best cost so much?

Thanks
Bill