Clearaudio Concept Setup

[richidoo]

Hi guys!

I bought this Concept used on AC in Spring 2011. I have enjoyed the sound very much. I have kept my head in the sand about adjusting it and applying tweaks so far.  The TT comes "setup from the factory, no adjustments needed."

The seller either changed the cart himself or bought it with an upgraded cart. So instead of the Concept MM cart, it has the Maestro Wood MM cart now. I think the seller said he adjusted the tonearm, but who knows. I want to know that it's right. When he sold it he was frustrated with analog and selling everything. So maybe it's not optimized.

So I hereby pull my head out of the sand, and wish to bring my TT up to optimal performance. My experience is using a printed paper protractor to align Technics SL-Q2 with AT150MLX.  I think that came out well, but the table has limited potential. The Concept sounds much better even if it is not perfectly adjusted.

It seems from looking at the tonearm, that it might not be perfectly level with the record. Just bought a mat from jimbones, and the VTA is way off with that in place and sounds worse. I know i have to adjust it with the mat, but it does look a little off. So maybe VTA was not adjusted with the cart upgrade.

Question 1: What tool measures VTA or do I do it by eye as the manual suggests?

I will need to figure out what size allen wrench is needed to work on this TT. It is German so it must be metric. The manual says "Using the wrench... " so it is probably one tool for all the adjustement screws. The VTA is adjusted by loosening the set screw on the tonearm base and sliding the tower up and down, then tightening.

I will also try to find and download a protractor for this TT. If not then  I will ask you guys how to make one using a CAD program, if possible.

Thanks in advance for any praise , love, advice, jokes, teasing, insults or vitriol.
Rich

[shadowlight]

Rich,

While I am trying to get my Empire up to snuff I am been reading about lots of tools available on Vinylengin website.  Maybe there is something there that you might be able to leverage.

[richidoo]

Thanks for the link Deepak. That's where I got the Technics protractor, but I forgot where I found that. They don't have a specific template already made for Concept, but there is lots of theoretical reading there to help me figure it out. And some universal alignment tools. I thinkthe Concept service manual is up there too. The owners manual doesn't state the tonearm geometry.

[rollo]

  VTA can be a bitch. Try using a index card with lines. Fold t one end and place on platter so lines run horizontally hen line up the cart with a line. Try dead level then raise up the rear 2 degree
  Usually azimuth is off that Fozgometer is quite something. Very affective. Speed is most often not checked or correct. A good digital tach will do the trick if the speed can be adjusted.
   Have fun professor.


charles

[richidoo]

Thanks Charlie, that's a great idea about post card!

Anyone using the Geo-disc alignment tool? It's only $50 and has some good comments online. AN Opinions? 

[etcarroll]

I think the Geo disk is what Bill brought me to set up my VPI SSM, it's a good tool for quickly getting setup 'out of the box'. But it didn't get me the final 10/10th of sonic goodness. I still need to get my hands on a Fozgo for that.

Thanks Charlie, that's a great idea about post card!

Anyone using the Geo-disc alignment tool? It's only $50 and has some good comments online. AN Opinions? 

[richidoo]

Thanks Gene. Everyone says it is a quick alignment, but I wonder if it is good enough? Probably as good as I can afford since we are now on the Dave Ramsey diet. I'm not gonna buy a Fozgo for this deck, but my friend Anand might get one for his uberTT so I can ask him to bring it by next g2g if he does. The Concept tonearm has a setscrew azimuth adjustment.

I had to add 3 full turns of counterweight to the VTF to get the 2.2g VTF that the Maestro Wood wants. Curious to know what VTF Pete uses on his Wood after experimenting? I measured the VTF with the stylus at the height that it play records, the Shure scale is only ~.04" taller than the mat + record thickness. I read that measuring VTF at playing height is really important. It did seem to affect my measurements a lot, even .2" too high made a big change.

Then I raised the tonearm by about 5mm to get level VTA with the Ringmat installed. Turns out that I had been playing records since I got it (no mat) with VTA about -2 degrees. It still sounded a lot better than my Technics midfi, so I was still happy with it. Ignorance is bliss.

I had to remove the cueing's arm lifter part to allow the arm to fall all the way down to the record with the higher VTA setting. I'll have to mod or replace the part if I want to cue, which I do...

It sounds MUCH, much better now.    Bass is deeper and punchier, everything is much more solid, punchy, dynamic. Soooo much more detail than I had before. Cymbal reverb, plunky piano notes, breath and space. It is very gratifying to let this tiger out of his cage. twss  I still need to check the alignment and azimuth, maybe there's more still on the table. The Concept arm has a cart mounting plate that has angle setting pins that insert into a slot on the tonearm, so I think the angle is set. The in and out adjustment is about perfectly in the center of the slot with a Clearaudio cartridge, so could be those are OK. We'll see...

Still looking for opinions on alignment tools and general setup advice from everybody. Or tell me what mistakes I made today!
Thanks
Rich

[jsaliga]

The Geodisc does a very good job on alignment.  I have one and have used it many times.  But if you don't have one handy then you can obtain any number of alignment tools for free from Vinyl Engine (you need to register and log in to download them).

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

What I usually suggest is that you print one of these out full size and then use some light adhesive and affix it to an old throw away record so it will lie perfectly flat.

--Jerome

[richidoo]

Thanks Jerome. I was thinking I would try that route before getting a tool. It worked OK for me on my old TT, not easy but cheap. Actually it was a little frustrating, but doable. Would have been easier if stuck to an old LP. I'll save for a geodisc, thanks...

I was dubious about the big weight change with the small height change, so I looked into it a little. The Concept arm uses a magnetic pivot. A magnet holds the whole arm up, pulling toward a shunt or another magnet above. Magnets used this way always have a happy place where they try to move towards. In this case the magnet is centered in its horizontal plane happy place when VTA is level. When you pull it out of that happy place with negative or positive VTA the magnet want to return to the happy place and while trying to get there, creates a new vertical force. If the stylus is below the LP surface plane (is that positive VTA?) than the pivot magnet exerts a lifting force against gravity on the stylus. When the stylus is above the LP surface the magnet exerts a downward force adding to gravity. So the VTA must be set first, then the VTF set. I did the opposite, thinking I wanted the needle sitting with the right VTF before I leveled the arm.

The very elementary Clearaudio manual sets the VTF first, then VTA. Acoustic Sounds advises the reverse because of the sensitivity of VTF to VTA. I'll check to see if the VTF is still on after adjusting VTA, but I'm remembering where it's set now because it sounds good!

Edit: It was .05g too heavy after VTA adjustment, about 1/8 turn of the weight. Don't even know if the Shure scale is that accurate.

[eleazar]

I think the Geo disk is what Bill brought me to set up my VPI SSM, it's a good tool for quickly getting setup 'out of the box'. But it didn't get me the final 10/10th of sonic goodness. I still need to get my hands on a Fozgo for that.

Thanks Charlie, that's a great idea about post card!

Anyone using the Geo-disc alignment tool? It's only $50 and has some good comments online. AN Opinions? 

Sorry I never touched your VPI settings. We used the Geodisc when you replaced the Denon 301 cartridge on your Denon TT

[tmazz]

Rich,

I have been using a GeoDisc for over 20 years and been very happy with it. But the GeoDisc only helps align the cartridge geometry with respect to the tonearm. It does not provide any help in doing VTA adjustments which are aligning the tonearm with the platter. And it is true, things like the GeoDisc, or any other alignment protractor are only going to give you an approximation of a good alignment, not the optimum, one. All of these devices provide visual cues using the cartridge body to set the alignment. But in reality we are not trying to align the body, but rather the stylus itself. While using the body as a visual reference gets you close, manufacturing tolerances cause small variations in the placement of the stylus relative to the body itself. For most people using the cartridge body as a proxy would be close enough, but of you really want to get the alignment dead on the final adjustments need to be made either by ear, or using electrical measurements to zero it in.

Chad at Acoustic sounds sells a TT set-up LP that provides test tones and very explicit instructions on how to set the various alignment components using electronic test bench equipment.

It has gotten rave reviews from quite a few industry titan. I don't own one, but it is one of those things that I keep saying "next time I place and order.....".  

Maybe Santa can bring me one.  

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/35532/Analogue_Productions-The_Ultimate_Analogue_Test_LP-Turntable_Set_Up_Tools

[tmazz]

One other thing about the GeoDisc, it can be tricky to us on cartridges that do not have a box shape body. The geoDisc uses a grid and asks you to align the cart so that it squares with the grid. This is fairly simple if the cart body has flat sides and 90 degree corners, but can be tricky to do if the body has curves surfaces. On Carts with no body it is actually kind of easy, in that you can easily see the stylus and just line up the stylus itself with one of the grid lines.

[JBNY]

I have used the stuff on Vinyl engine with good results too. On my MMF7.1 I adjust the VTA then the VTF. If you want to try a digital scale, I picked this one up on amazon, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O5K3JQ/, I have calibration weights and it was accurate down to the .05 weights, so not bad for $12.

If you are looking for test LP, I have used the HiFi News test LP with good results. It can really help with making sure tracking force and bias settings are correct.

[richidoo]

Thanks for the detailed info Tom.  The cart is square on the sides and front so a grid will work OK. Is an oscilloscope necessary to use that Acoustic Sounds test disc?

Welcome to AudioNervosa JBNY! So far the Shure scale that came with the TT deal is working well, it seems to be very sensitive to changes, although I don't know about its absolute accuracy against reference. I will tune by ear anyway once it's close to the recommended force.

Somebody recommended the HiFiNews test disk the last time I pulled my head out of the sand, I think it was regarding antiskate adjustment. Thanks

[BobM]

I picked this up and it is working great for a speed check

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Digital-Laser-Tachometer-Contact/dp/B004Q8L894/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1344606454&sr=8-4&keywords=digital+laser+tachometer

I also have a cheap postal digital scale accurate to .05 for measuring downforce. You don;t need an expensive "audiophile" scale to do this.

I've used the index card trick to get a starting point, but then VTA setting is done by ear from there. A tedious process but oh so critical for MC cartridges. MM's not so much.

I also set tracking force by ear and have written about that process here

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2414.msg25882#msg25882