Bolder SB3 analog mods w/Hosfelt pwr supply upgrade vs Altmann DAC

[ebag4]

I would like to get the opinions of those that have heard both (or one) the Bolder SB3 analog mods w/Hosfelt  (similar to Elpac) pwr supply upgrade and the Altmann DAC.  I am looking at the Bolder Enthusiast Analog mod with VH audio coupling bypass caps.

If you were looking at these two solutions which would you choose for your system?  I have the SB3 and Hosfelt power supply but am undecided which direction to choose.  I am leaning toward the Bolder mods simply because I have yet to read anything but fantastic reviews by everyone that has heard them.  The Altmann is attractive because if it didn't meet my needs I could simply sell it and I would not have to be considering upgrading to the Bolder Ultimate II pwr supply down the road.  The drawback is another box, cable and connections.

This will be part of a very simple system, a single source (SB3) to a DIY battery powered 41hz amp4 w/Jensen PIO coupling caps driving a pair of DIY Hawthorne Duets.

Thanks for your opinions.

Best,
Ed

[richidoo]

I would choose the Altmann. It is other worldly. But ugly, lightweight, and needs a battery, maybe can share with your amp? You still need a source with the DAC, and stock or modded SB is a great way to go.

I have never heard Bolder modded SB, but lots of people love it.
Rich

[Bigfish8]

I would like to get the opinions of those that have heard both (or one) the Bolder SB3 analog mods w/Hosfelt  (similar to Elpac) pwr supply upgrade and the Altmann DAC.  I am looking at the Bolder Enthusiast Analog mod with VH audio coupling bypass caps.

If you were looking at these two solutions which would you choose for your system?  I have the SB3 and Hosfelt power supply but am undecided which direction to choose.  I am leaning toward the Bolder mods simply because I have yet to read anything but fantastic reviews by everyone that has heard them.  The Altmann is attractive because if it didn't meet my needs I could simply sell it and I would not have to be considering upgrading to the Bolder Ultimate II pwr supply down the road.  The drawback is another box, cable and connections.

This will be part of a very simple system, a single source (SB3) to a DIY battery powered 41hz amp4 w/Jensen PIO coupling caps driving a pair of DIY Hawthorne Duets.

Thanks for your opinions.

Best,
Ed

Ed:

I started a topic about the Squeezebox, questioning owner experience with reliablity, and the thread initiated a pretty big debate.  There are those of us who are strongly in the camp that a highly, analog modified Squeezebox with high-end power supply is an excellent music source.  Equally there is strong support against modifying an inexpensive, comsumer oriented product because down the road the mods will be worth pennies against the major dollars they cost. 

I am confused about the choices you reference.  If you are going to run the S3 through the Altmann why would you have any mods done to the S3 expect possibly Bolder's Digital Mods?  I had Wayne make the analog mods and add the platinum caps to my S3.  I also had him mod the linear Elpac.  My S3 is connected directly to my Candela tube preamp with Bolder ICs.  My next step, when I pick-up my Grover ICs from Rich, is to try connecting the S3 directly to the Mono SE Amps.  If I find I do not have enough volume I will switch back to running it through the preamp. 

My advice is if you are leaning toward purchase of the Altmann I would hold off on any mods to the S3 until after you hear it connected through the Alrmann.  If you are leaning toward the modified S3 I would hold off purchase of the Altmann until I evaluated the modified S3 in your system. 

Good Luck,

Ken

[richidoo]

I have terrible "foot in mouth" disease - but I mean well....

Rereading my post above sounds like I recommend for YOU to pick Altmann too, but I only mean that I would pick it based on my own experience with Altman and ignorance of Bolder. If you can hear both before you buy, that's the way to go, but that's not easy.  Both have great reputation.

I also wanna welcome you to AN, Ed. (Should'a done that first, sorry!) And please PLEASE tell us all about your Duets in the speaker section. I want to hear those in the worst way.
Rich

[ebag4]

Ken/Rich:
Thanks for the responses and the welcome. 

To clarify, I am trying to decide whether I want to move forward with the Bolder analog mods OR, get the Altmann DAC instead.

If I decided on the Altmann the only SB3 mods I would get would be the digital mods.

I am leaning to the Bolder mods, I appreciate what a minimalist configuration can do for the sound, however, I have also seen a lot of good press for the Altmann and for me this would appear to be an easier route for resale if I should decide to do so, this may or may not be true, the Bolder SB3 seem to sell rather quickly.

I don't really have an issue with modding the SB3, I have had it since they first came out (it has RWA analog mod currently with the output opamp still in place) and have had virtually no issues with it. 

It really comes down to the sound for me and unfortunately I will not be able to listen to either unit prior to purchase.

With regard to the Duets, they are not quite finished, if you would like to see them look here:
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1167

I will be certain to do a write up in the speaker section once they are complete.

Thanks again for the welcome, I recognize many/all of the names from AC, but I posted here and AC at the same time and have only recieved responses here, it is appreciated.

Best,
Ed

[Bigfish8]

Ed:

Welcome!!  I am really the newbie on the block in these parts and absorbing information from all of these guys like a damp spounge.  When I first started the pursuit of a 2 channel system back in March I had never heard of a Squeezebox.  I made a post in the Odyssey Area on AC and BPape made a response that a pair of Mono SEs, a Candela Preamp would deserve a pair of good speakers and a Squeezebox.  Anyway, I ended up doing more research and bought an S3.  While almost everone claims the analog section of an unmodified S3 is not great, I connected it to my Candela.  Not too surprising, I preferred the sound from my Nad C542 CDP.  At that point I then began the great personal debate - DAC or to mod the S3?  Honestly, at about that time Rich was trying to organize a group buy for the Altmann DAC, here on AN.  If that had worked-out I would have most likely ordered the Altmann.  My reasoning was I would have gotten the Altmann at good price and I could have used the unmodified S3 or Nad CDP as music sources through the Altmann.  Alas, the group buy feel through due to logistics.

My final decision to go with the Modified S3 was made for two reasons:

1.  Some people here and at AC with pretty high-end systems have sold CDPs and DACs due to preference for the highly modified Squeezebox.

2.  Convenience, convenience, convenience.  Rip your music onto a hard drive and you can access your entire music library from the comfort of your music listening chair.  Also, fewer boxes and fewer cords.

  I think if you commit to going the modified S3 route without the DAC you will end-up (ultimately) with an investment in the S3(cost of S3 purchase, mods to the S3 and a high-end power supply in the range of $2000.00.  As I indicated above there are many that believe this is not a wise long-term investment.  The S3 may be considered a cutting edge streaming player today but it is likely cutting edge in a market that will explode with new products.  If longer-term value is an issue then a modified S3 will probably not retain as much value as a high quality DAC and CDP.

Sorry if my posts is confusing but this hobby seems to be all about confusing choices.  However, other than being expensive it is a heck of a lot of fun and enjoyment!

Ken

[miklorsmith]

I have the capability with my buddy mca of having a head-to-head comparison between a full-boat Bolder SB3 (well, maybe .75 generations ago full-boat) vs. the Altmann which is FINALLY running again.  It came home to poppa with a broken charger.  I thought it was the wiring harness Gordy assembled and put a couple of batteries through it before I figured that one out.

Anyway, mca and I have talked about doing this for a while and this might be the impetus to actually get it done.  We haven't yet because out here in the Northwest we get a lot of depressing, dark, rainy weather.  July - September are incredibly nice and frankly nobody wants to sit in a room looking at a wall when there's all this sunshine about.  We might have to put on the hardhats and take one for the team here though.

Prediction?  (you're gonna hate me) - I think the Altmann will sound better straight to my Red Wine Amps but the SB3 might win out with the Lamm preamp in the chain (cue running from the flying tomatoes).   

[mdconnelly]

Results should be very interesting!  Are you saying that an unmodded SB3 paired w/Altmann DAC may prove better tha a fully modded Bolder SB3 or that the fully modded Bolder SB3 w/Altmann may be better than fully modded Bolder SB3 alone?

Ouch, that sentence makes my head hurt...

[ebag4]

Hi Miklorsmith:
Thanks for the reply.  I would enjoy hearing your findings as I am certain many others would as well. 

Is there a specific quality to the Altmann that you believe makes it better suited to drive your Sig 70's directly than the modded SB3?

Thanks,
Ed

[miklorsmith]

Well, the Altmann outputs more than the standard CDP 2-volts while the Bolder is significantly less.  People have talked about whether the Bolder has enough output to get sufficient volume in-room, but I think there's more to the "drive" equation than SPLs.

I expect the jump factor will be superior with the Altmann, which will be seriously minimized by having a good, active preamp in the chain.  The Altmann is a bigtime tone machine too, which the Bolder may or may not be.  Certainly the Lamm will close any gaps there as well.

I have 2 RWA battery-powered Squeezeboxes.  mca's Bolder is also the "Ultimate" PS, not the one listed, so the comparison won't be Precisely on-point.

Now that I've stated my expectations, I must skew the test so that results fall in line.   

[bpape]

If you get a chance, listen to it with the modded Burson Buffer.  The order of magnitude change is stunning - IMO along the lines of the difference between the switch PS and the upgraded one coupled with the analog mods.

In addition, the amount of gain in the buffer is variable in the design.  It can be done with 0 gain, 3db gain, or 6db of gain.

Bryan

[miklorsmith]

I'd love to, but don't have one.

[richidoo]

Altmann output is 5Vpp per Charles Altmann. He also echoed what you said Mike, that putting an active preamp after it will reduce its current to the amp. It has a 900 "cold cranking amp" power supply

[Black Sand Cable]

1 Stock SB3 + 1 Stock Eastern Electric Tube BBA = Dam near perfection.......

Before running out and gutting what is already a good little box (SB3) I would look at putting something in front of it first.

[ebag4]

Before running out and gutting what is already a good little box (SB3) I would look at putting something in front of it first.

I did that.  I just sold my EE Minimax pre that I was running my SB3 into.