I think my System is virtually finished

[P.I.]

One other tidbit if I may.

It is almost always advantageous to use the same brand, and even model, capacitor throughout
a design. When one has to compensate an inferior capacitor with a different
brand capacitor, the end result is almost always degraded sound in one or more aspects.

Using the same brand, the most natural/accurate capacitors in a design results in fewer abnormal
aspects in sound. Of course, the budget needs to be considered.

As an example, adding a single 1ufd solen capacitor into the crossover network negatively affected
the sound of the entire system.

One outstanding, natural, accurate capacitor, in absolute terms, is the Mundorf M EVO aluminum,
in oil (white covering). Small to large values I have tested are outstanding and recommended.
(I am not affiliated, and/or compensated in any way from Mundorf.)
 
cheers

steve

I have found capacitors made by SCR (Solen, Axon, etc) have a house sound: gritty 🫤 . 

I'm in absolute agreement about using the same cap family in gear for consistency.

[steve]

One other tidbit if I may.

It is almost always advantageous to use the same brand, and even model, capacitor throughout
a design. When one has to compensate an inferior capacitor with a different
brand capacitor, the end result is almost always degraded sound in one or more aspects.

Using the same brand, the most natural/accurate capacitors in a design results in fewer abnormal
aspects in sound. Of course, the budget needs to be considered.

As an example, adding a single 1ufd solen capacitor into the crossover network negatively affected
the sound of the entire system.

One outstanding, natural, accurate capacitor, in absolute terms, is the Mundorf M EVO aluminum,
in oil (white covering). Small to large values I have tested are outstanding and recommended.
(I am not affiliated, and/or compensated in any way from Mundorf.)
 
cheers

steve

I have found capacitors made by SCR (Solen, Axon, etc) have a house sound: gritty 🫤 . 

I'm in absolute agreement about using the same cap family in gear for consistency.

Nice way of putting it Dave. Same here, gritty, which, for newbies, means the harmonic structure
of the instruments/voices has been slightly altered, and different from, say, the M EVO Mundorfs aluminum.
I mentioned this aspect because on other forums I have read some trying to improve
synergy by using different brand caps. Better off to improve the overall design.

cheers

steve

[steve]

Just want to invite anyone traveling/living near Morton/Peoria, Illinois to drop by and see what I am testing
at the moment. Please give 1 days notice if you can so I can get the system warmed up.

Just PM me or use stevesammet at yahoo.com

Cheers

steve

[Nick B]

Just want to invite anyone traveling/living near Morton, Illinois to drop by and see what I am testing
at the moment. Please give 1 days notice if you can so I can get the system warmed up.

Just PM me or use stevesammet at yahoo.com

Cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Too bad I live so far away, or you'd have a squatter on your hands for a brief time  😁  Sounds like great fun!
Nick

[P.I.]

Just want to invite anyone traveling/living near Morton, Illinois to drop by and see what I am testing
at the moment. Please give 1 days notice if you can so I can get the system warmed up.

Just PM me or use stevesammet at yahoo.com

Cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Too bad I live so far away, or you'd have a squatter on your hands for a brief time  😁  Sounds like great fun!
Nick

Yes, it does!

[steve]

I found out (probably should have known) that the JJ output tubes use solder without lead
in the tube pins. Unleaded solders tend to thin the sound vs quad solders with lead.

So I added some quad solder to the cathode, grid, screen, and plates pins of the KT88s. The sound
did fill out a little. I like both the JJ KT88s and the new Tung Sols (given to me years before the war).

I am also testing lower filament voltage and its effects on life on new, small signal tubes. In general
there are several causes of reduced tube life.

1. Residual gas/ ion bombardment
2. Too high of filament voltage "boiling" off of oxides
3. Too low of filament voltage causing excessive space charge depletion
4. Cathode sleeve impurities causing poisoning of the oxides

It may or may not take some time of use to hopefully arrive at a conclusion or two.

Cheers

steve

[steve]

I posted this in another string but I feel it is very important as tubes are getting
quite expensive, especially NOS.

This is not a truly representative test as only 1 used JJ E88cc tube with two sections,
A, B are being tested. I will have to perform more tests with more JJ E88cc tubes for
better overall accuracy but should give us a good indication. Tube has been turned
off just a couple of times so far.

Test started on 8-11-24, measurements below are from 8-15-24.
Very early on, approximately 90 hours, the tube appears stable.

I did make a change from 2 watt to dual 12 watt plate resistors on 8-11
for increased heat related stability. Different RL resistance values A and B
are due to availability from the old parts box.

RL A are two Mills 12 watt resistors in parallel for 7.11K ohms
RL B are two Mills 12 watt resistors in parallel for 7.71K ohms

Voltages and currents are approximates.
           
Filament                  5.85 volts dc

B+ voltage              142
Plate A voltage        71.8 volts
Plate B voltage        63.8 volts

Plate A current         9.86ma
Plate B current         10.13 ma         

We'll see how the tube acts over time.

cheers

steve

[steve]

Hear are some results after ~ 450 hours using a used JJ E88cc tube, at ~5.85 filament volts.

The AC line voltage varies slightly, which I can adjust, so there is only a slight DC voltage variations,
but not enough to cause a problem. I can adjust the line voltage for exactly 5.58 filament volts at
measurement times. Military Grade Mills RL's A and B values remain stable since the dissipation 
is only ~0,7 watt dissipation vs 24 watt rating.

Filament                  5.85 volts                  5.85 volts

B+ voltage              142 volts                   141.7 volts
Plate A voltage        71.8 volts                   72.2 volts               
Plate B voltage        63.8 volts                   63.7 volts

Will continue to add hours, and will check in later.

cheers

steve

 

[steve]

Hear are some results after ~ 450 hours using a used JJ E88cc tube, at ~5.85 filament volts.

The AC line voltage varies slightly, which I can adjust, so there is only a slight DC voltage variations,
but not enough to cause a problem. I can adjust the line voltage for exactly 5.58 filament volts at
measurement times. Military Grade Mills RL's A and B values remain stable since the dissipation 
is only ~0,7 watt dissipation vs 24 watt rating.

Filament                  5.85 volts                  5.85 volts

B+ voltage              142 volts                   141.7 volts
Plate A voltage        71.8 volts                   72.2 volts               
Plate B voltage        63.8 volts                   63.7 volts

Will continue to add hours, and will check in later.

cheers

steve

9-28-2024   ~600 hours

Fil voltage                          5.85 volts

B+                                  141.2 volts
Plate A Voltage                 72.9 volts
Plate B Voltage                 64.3 volts

Voltage changed slightly but within 2%. Will continue.

steve

[steve]

Here are the results after approximately 984 more hours, for a total of ~1434 hours.

Filament Voltage:          5.85 volts

B+ voltage                   140.8 volts      Initial Voltage  142.0 volts   is within 1% change, meter tolerance

Plate A voltage               72.8 volts     Initial Voltage   71.8 volts    is within 1.5% change

Plate B voltage               64.5 volts     Initial Voltage   63.8 volts    is within 1.1% change

Although this experiment consists of one tube, two sections, I am quite impressed with the performance
so far. In fact, I have adjusted the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and my Monoblock
Amplifiers.

The cathode deterioration is quite modest after some 1400 hours at the lower filament voltage. This
kind of performance is certainly not consistent with 6.3 volts. As such I would venture that cathode
material vaporization is a main component of cathode degradation.

I would say ion bombardment is causing little deterioration of the cathode. The
plate voltage rises rather slowly, taking many many miliseconds to reach high voltage.
Ions are quite light mass and there is not much acceleration at lower plate voltages, as the
voltage ramps up in value. Although this conclusion is not scientific, I feel quite comfortable in this
conclusion.

As mentioned above, I have lowered the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and My
Monoblock amps. I have not kept track of the hours of service, but my last check showed virtually no
deterioration of either my small signal tubes nor my new Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, even
though the side getters are turning Milky.

Caveat: Although I feel lowering the filament voltage would be advantageous with other brand tubes,
I cannot guarantee this would be the case.

As such, I am finishing my experiment.

Cheers

steve 

[Nick B]

Here are the results after approximately 984 more hours, for a total of ~1434 hours.

Filament Voltage:          5.85 volts

B+ voltage                   140.8 volts      Initial Voltage  142.0 volts   is within 1% change, meter tolerance

Plate A voltage               72.8 volts     Initial Voltage   71.8 volts    is within 1.5% change

Plate B voltage               64.5 volts     Initial Voltage   63.8 volts    is within 1.1% change

Although this experiment consists of one tube, two sections, I am quite impressed with the performance
so far. In fact, I have adjusted the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and my Monoblock
Amplifiers.

The cathode deterioration is quite modest after some 1400 hours at the lower filament voltage. This
kind of performance is certainly not consistent with 6.3 volts. As such I would venture that cathode
material vaporization is a main component of cathode degradation.

I would say ion bombardment is causing little deterioration of the cathode. The
plate voltage rises rather slowly, taking many many miliseconds to reach high voltage.
Ions are quite light mass and there is not much acceleration at lower plate voltages, as the
voltage ramps up in value. Although this conclusion is not scientific, I feel quite comfortable in this
conclusion.

As mentioned above, I have lowered the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and My
Monoblock amps. I have not kept track of the hours of service, but my last check showed virtually no
deterioration of either my small signal tubes nor my new Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, even
though the side getters are turning Milky.

Caveat: Although I feel lowering the filament voltage would be advantageous with other brand tubes,
I cannot guarantee this would be the case.

As such, I am finishing my experiment.

Cheers

steve

Congratulations, Steve!! Thinking soon about any new projects for 2025!

[steve]

Here are the results after approximately 984 more hours, for a total of ~1434 hours.

Filament Voltage:          5.85 volts

B+ voltage                   140.8 volts      Initial Voltage  142.0 volts   is within 1% change, meter tolerance

Plate A voltage               72.8 volts     Initial Voltage   71.8 volts    is within 1.5% change

Plate B voltage               64.5 volts     Initial Voltage   63.8 volts    is within 1.1% change

Although this experiment consists of one tube, two sections, I am quite impressed with the performance
so far. In fact, I have adjusted the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and my Monoblock
Amplifiers.

The cathode deterioration is quite modest after some 1400 hours at the lower filament voltage. This
kind of performance is certainly not consistent with 6.3 volts. As such I would venture that cathode
material vaporization is a main component of cathode degradation.

I would say ion bombardment is causing little deterioration of the cathode. The
plate voltage rises rather slowly, taking many many miliseconds to reach high voltage.
Ions are quite light mass and there is not much acceleration at lower plate voltages, as the
voltage ramps up in value. Although this conclusion is not scientific, I feel quite comfortable in this
conclusion.

As mentioned above, I have lowered the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and My
Monoblock amps. I have not kept track of the hours of service, but my last check showed virtually no
deterioration of either my small signal tubes nor my new Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, even
though the side getters are turning Milky.

Caveat: Although I feel lowering the filament voltage would be advantageous with other brand tubes,
I cannot guarantee this would be the case.

As such, I am finishing my experiment.

Cheers

steve

Congratulations, Steve!! Thinking soon about any new projects for 2025!

Hi Nick,

Well, I am in the final stages of my test speakers in terms of the crossover. One wire of each inductor is
quite short and soldered to the speaker wire itself on the pc pad. (Two inductors/chokes total.)

The other wire of each inductor was hanging down to the another pc pad. I bend these wires to
alter the high and bass tonal balance. (Of course the wire still needs to relax, so tough to get and
stay right.)

So I reduced the length with clamps to 5" of each inductor/choke lead wire to tweak/bend, and am
very close but the wire still needs to relax some, but basically finished.

1. I want to go all Jenalabs 18 gauge 6N speaker wires, but that is more than a grand. Will probably need
crossover re-adjustments again, so bending of the two 5" inductor/choke lead wires.

Audio Magazine, back in the day, listed temperature and humidity in reviews. I attempt the same.

2. I have heard that win 10/11 digital out is suppose to be better than win 7, so win 10 might be
another future experiment.

So a couple of experiments yet to try.

cheers

steve

[Nick B]

Here are the results after approximately 984 more hours, for a total of ~1434 hours.

Filament Voltage:          5.85 volts

B+ voltage                   140.8 volts      Initial Voltage  142.0 volts   is within 1% change, meter tolerance

Plate A voltage               72.8 volts     Initial Voltage   71.8 volts    is within 1.5% change

Plate B voltage               64.5 volts     Initial Voltage   63.8 volts    is within 1.1% change

Although this experiment consists of one tube, two sections, I am quite impressed with the performance
so far. In fact, I have adjusted the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and my Monoblock
Amplifiers.

The cathode deterioration is quite modest after some 1400 hours at the lower filament voltage. This
kind of performance is certainly not consistent with 6.3 volts. As such I would venture that cathode
material vaporization is a main component of cathode degradation.

I would say ion bombardment is causing little deterioration of the cathode. The
plate voltage rises rather slowly, taking many many miliseconds to reach high voltage.
Ions are quite light mass and there is not much acceleration at lower plate voltages, as the
voltage ramps up in value. Although this conclusion is not scientific, I feel quite comfortable in this
conclusion.

As mentioned above, I have lowered the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and My
Monoblock amps. I have not kept track of the hours of service, but my last check showed virtually no
deterioration of either my small signal tubes nor my new Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, even
though the side getters are turning Milky.

Caveat: Although I feel lowering the filament voltage would be advantageous with other brand tubes,
I cannot guarantee this would be the case.

As such, I am finishing my experiment.

Cheers

steve

Congratulations, Steve!! Thinking soon about any new projects for 2025!

Hi Nick,

Well, I am in the final stages of my test speakers in terms of the crossover. One wire of each inductor is
quite short and soldered to the speaker wire itself on the pc pad. (Two inductors/chokes total.)

The other wire of each inductor was hanging down to the another pc pad. I bend these wires to
alter the high and bass tonal balance. (Of course the wire still needs to relax, so tough to get and
stay right.)

So I reduced the length with clamps to 5" of each inductor/choke lead wire to tweak/bend, and am
very close but the wire still needs to relax some, but basically finished.

1. I want to go all Jenalabs 18 gauge 6N speaker wires, but that is a grand or more. Will probably need
crossover re-adjustments again, so bending of the two 5" inductor/choke lead wires.

Audio Magazine, back in the day, listed temperature and humidity in reviews. I attempt the same.

2. I have heard that win 10/11 digital out is suppose to be better than win 7, so win 10 might be
another future experiment.

So a couple of experiments yet to try.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Very interesting ss usual. As Dave says.... everything makes a difference. My system is sounding so good! I experimented and had an interconnect built using the Neotech silver/gold alloy wire with silver RCAs. Really outstanding in my system. But not everyone's cup of tea I'm sure. I may have a friend use that wire to upgrade my Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp. It has a damaged speaker terminal from the tour, so it needs some work anyway. It's a great amp.

Pls keep us posted on these projects. Oh, do you bother using cryoed wire or is any difference worth the trouble?

Nick

[steve]

Here are the results after approximately 984 more hours, for a total of ~1434 hours.

Filament Voltage:          5.85 volts

B+ voltage                   140.8 volts      Initial Voltage  142.0 volts   is within 1% change, meter tolerance

Plate A voltage               72.8 volts     Initial Voltage   71.8 volts    is within 1.5% change

Plate B voltage               64.5 volts     Initial Voltage   63.8 volts    is within 1.1% change

Although this experiment consists of one tube, two sections, I am quite impressed with the performance
so far. In fact, I have adjusted the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and my Monoblock
Amplifiers.

The cathode deterioration is quite modest after some 1400 hours at the lower filament voltage. This
kind of performance is certainly not consistent with 6.3 volts. As such I would venture that cathode
material vaporization is a main component of cathode degradation.

I would say ion bombardment is causing little deterioration of the cathode. The
plate voltage rises rather slowly, taking many many miliseconds to reach high voltage.
Ions are quite light mass and there is not much acceleration at lower plate voltages, as the
voltage ramps up in value. Although this conclusion is not scientific, I feel quite comfortable in this
conclusion.

As mentioned above, I have lowered the filament voltage in both my 11A Line Preamplifier and My
Monoblock amps. I have not kept track of the hours of service, but my last check showed virtually no
deterioration of either my small signal tubes nor my new Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, even
though the side getters are turning Milky.

Caveat: Although I feel lowering the filament voltage would be advantageous with other brand tubes,
I cannot guarantee this would be the case.

As such, I am finishing my experiment.

Cheers

steve

Congratulations, Steve!! Thinking soon about any new projects for 2025!

Hi Nick,

Well, I am in the final stages of my test speakers in terms of the crossover. One wire of each inductor is
quite short and soldered to the speaker wire itself on the pc pad. (Two inductors/chokes total.)

The other wire of each inductor was hanging down to the another pc pad. I bend these wires to
alter the high and bass tonal balance. (Of course the wire still needs to relax, so tough to get and
stay right.)

So I reduced the length with clamps to 5" of each inductor/choke lead wire to tweak/bend, and am
very close but the wire still needs to relax some, but basically finished.

1. I want to go all Jenalabs 18 gauge 6N speaker wires, but that is a grand or more. Will probably need
crossover re-adjustments again, so bending of the two 5" inductor/choke lead wires.

Audio Magazine, back in the day, listed temperature and humidity in reviews. I attempt the same.

2. I have heard that win 10/11 digital out is suppose to be better than win 7, so win 10 might be
another future experiment.

So a couple of experiments yet to try.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Very interesting ss usual. As Dave says.... everything makes a difference. My system is sounding so good! I experimented and had an interconnect built using the Neotech silver/gold alloy wire with silver RCAs. Really outstanding in my system. But not everyone's cup of tea I'm sure. I may have a friend use that wire to upgrade my Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp. It has a damaged speaker terminal from the tour, so it needs some work anyway. It's a great amp.

Pls keep us posted on these projects. Oh, do you bother using cryoed wire or is any difference worth the trouble?

Nick

Hi NIck,

What Dave says is quite true. When using all polypropylene capacitors in my
entire system (except partial electrolytics in the main high voltage output stage),
the system becomes much more transparent/masking removed, tonal qualities are
enhanced, improved dynamics, greater spatial information is revealed, true inner detail.

Over the years/decades, I have posted some of my research pertaining to
experiments, involving the sensitivity of our ears.
Here are a few for our newbie friends.

12pf across the 47ufd Mundorf polypropylene capacitor makes a sonic difference.
For newbies, that 12pf cap was adding 1 part in 4.1 million, a slight signal voltage
change. Using typical db = 20 log equation, that signal voltage change is approximately
132 db down from signal reference, before the 12pf addition.
The ear is incredibly sensitive.

Another is removing one 18 gauge, 7 foot wire from 11 parallel speaker wires
(leaving 10) on just one speaker lead; was quite perceptible.

Moving the speakers by 0,5mm pen mark is perceptible.

My latest experiment a few months ago; my test speaker uses a 2 ohm 12 watt MRA
non-inductive Mills resistor in series with my crossover and full range driver (frd), to
match the full range driver (frd) to the woofer, for flat frequency response.

Re-writing now for clarity, as I may not have been clear for newbies. I soldered a 4 meg resistor
lead on one 2 ohm resistor lead and another 4 meg resistor to the other 2 ohm lead. I did Not solder
the other two 4 meg resistor leads together. This is the musical sound reference in this experiment.
(4 megohm equals 4,000,000 ohm resistor, and two 4 meg resistors in series is 8 megohms.)

Soldering the two 4 meg resistor leads together, for 8 megohms created a clear sonic difference. 

That is also 1 part in 4 million for a change of -132db. I and friends did not like
the sonic change so I unsoldered the two 4 megohm resistors from each other in order to Not
influence and resistor's solder connections at the 2 ohm leads.
I may tinker a little more in the future.

The experiment I am looking forward to next is to make my speakerwires all Jenalabs
(6N) wire.
 
All my products, phono, preamp, amps, interconnect cables used Jenalabs wire throughout
(except prior to the power transformers/filament leads).

Another computer, with win 10, is also on my radar but I believe the speaker wire improvement
will be more effective.

Cheers

steve