Add spikes to your Pangea Vulcan rack shelves

[malloy]

For those of you who use Pangea racks, this might be a worthwhile tweak.

This is a very affordable rack that looks like this stock. with only the bottom shelf isolated with spikes:



I've always been suspicious of what it was doing to the sound, so I decided to add spikes each individual platform to hear what that would do.


Added some M8 Flanged Button Head Socket Cap Screw Bolts on top and spikes to the bottom of each post.


This is what it looks like now.

I am hearing a more balanced sound. I left everything the same - sub level and volume.

To my surprise, there is less bass now. Or should I say, not as much bass and midbass. The midrange is not as forward as before as well. I can hear more separation of instruments, especially vocals.

The boards on the Pangea are MDF and not the hardwood type available on their pricier offerings. I guess it is safe to say that it was coloring the sound a lot before the 'upgrade.'

Not bad for a total cost of about $25, but this just shows how much further the sound can be improved. Next, I'll try damping the amp lid with a book as Dave suggested in this other thread:

You can look into that rabbit hole by taking a big, heavy book and set it on the top of the amp.  This will give you an idea of what damping will do.

Thanks, for the suggestion, Dave!

Paul

[Nick B]

Paul,

I’ve had the MDF version of the Pangea rack for a number of years. A very nice product and good value and I see the Pangea rack being used by exhibitors at some shows. I’m not surprised by your findings and let us know what the heavy book will do.

Nick

[GDHAL]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

[Nick B]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

I’ve heard very good things about the GAIA and no negative comments yet. Haven’t been willing to spend the money…yet. But will post for the forum if I do. Hal, have you used the GAIA in multiple locations?

[GDHAL]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

I’ve heard very good things about the GAIA and no negative comments yet. Haven’t been willing to spend the money…yet. But will post for the forum if I do. Hal, have you used the GAIA in multiple locations?

Hi Nick. I agree they are pricey. In my case I could actually hear the sonic benefit, which is usually the point of any audio change. I'm using GAIA 1 footers on my Triton Reference speakers. Four are needed per speaker. I did not change the location of the speaker before/after installation, so in that sense, no, I have not used them in multiple locations.

It's worth noting that GT Audioworks (I think Greg and Steve are on this forum, but I haven't read any posts of theirs here) have the GAIA 1 installed on their $50+k planar magnetic reference speakers . And they do move them.

If you get the GAIA, they come in six different sizes. What to get depends on the weight of the speaker. What I did (and I've had a few conversations with Sean Morrison of IsoAcoustics to which he stated "bravo, correct thing to do") is if you determine the size needed falls between two sizes, get the higher model (more weight capacity) version. Yes, the higher weight capacity footers cost even more.

Also worth noting, more so than spikes, is that installing the GAIA's on speakers (they have the same type of product known as a "puck" for components) raises the speaker approximately 1.5 inches higher off the floor. Conceivably that could be concerning depending on where the tweeter is situated in relation to your ears, and the vertical dispersion pattern of your particular tweeter. Good thing for me is I realized that in advance and contemplated the affect raising the speaker would have. Fortunately for me even that aspect worked in my favor.

I presume I've answered your question.

Best.

Hal

[Nick B]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

I’ve heard very good things about the GAIA and no negative comments yet. Haven’t been willing to spend the money…yet. But will post for the forum if I do. Hal, have you used the GAIA in multiple locations?

Hi Nick. I agree they are pricey. In my case I could actually hear the sonic benefit, which is usually the point of any audio change. I'm using GAIA 1 footers on my Triton Reference speakers. Four are needed per speaker. I did not change the location of the speaker before/after installation, so in that sense, no, I have not used them in multiple locations.

It's worth noting that GT Audioworks (I think Greg and Steve are on this forum, but I haven't read any posts of theirs here) have the GAIA 1 installed on their $50+k planar magnetic reference speakers . And they do move them.

If you get the GAIA, they come in six different sizes. What to get depends on the weight of the speaker. What I did (and I've had a few conversations with Sean Morrison of IsoAcoustics to which he stated "bravo, correct thing to do") is if you determine the size needed falls between two sizes, get the higher model (more weight capacity) version. Yes, the higher weight capacity footers cost even more.

Also worth noting, more so than spikes, is that installing the GAIA's on speakers (they have the same type of product known as a "puck" for components) raises the speaker approximately 1.5 inches higher off the floor. Conceivably that could be concerning depending on where the tweeter is situated in relation to your ears, and the vertical dispersion pattern of your particular tweeter. Good thing for me is I realized that in advance and contemplated the affect raising the speaker would have. Fortunately for me even that aspect worked in my favor.

I presume I've answered your question.

Best.

Hal

Hi Hal and thank you for your detailed and very helpful response. I was just on the Gaia website to see all the products they have. My speakers, which I love dearly and are the best by far that I’ve ever owned, have non adjustable gliders, so a no go on the threaded type. These isolation pucks are something I’ve wanted to explore for a long time. As I’m still finishing up my house from having moved one year ago, the Gaias will have to wait. But if I buy, then a Thanksgiving or holiday sale would be when I’d likely buy.

If anyone has used Gaias or a less expensive substitute that works equally well, I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Nick

[GDHAL]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

I’ve heard very good things about the GAIA and no negative comments yet. Haven’t been willing to spend the money…yet. But will post for the forum if I do. Hal, have you used the GAIA in multiple locations?

Hi Nick. I agree they are pricey. In my case I could actually hear the sonic benefit, which is usually the point of any audio change. I'm using GAIA 1 footers on my Triton Reference speakers. Four are needed per speaker. I did not change the location of the speaker before/after installation, so in that sense, no, I have not used them in multiple locations.

It's worth noting that GT Audioworks (I think Greg and Steve are on this forum, but I haven't read any posts of theirs here) have the GAIA 1 installed on their $50+k planar magnetic reference speakers . And they do move them.

If you get the GAIA, they come in six different sizes. What to get depends on the weight of the speaker. What I did (and I've had a few conversations with Sean Morrison of IsoAcoustics to which he stated "bravo, correct thing to do") is if you determine the size needed falls between two sizes, get the higher model (more weight capacity) version. Yes, the higher weight capacity footers cost even more.

Also worth noting, more so than spikes, is that installing the GAIA's on speakers (they have the same type of product known as a "puck" for components) raises the speaker approximately 1.5 inches higher off the floor. Conceivably that could be concerning depending on where the tweeter is situated in relation to your ears, and the vertical dispersion pattern of your particular tweeter. Good thing for me is I realized that in advance and contemplated the affect raising the speaker would have. Fortunately for me even that aspect worked in my favor.

I presume I've answered your question.

Best.

Hal

Hi Hal and thank you for your detailed and very helpful response. I was just on the Gaia website to see all the products they have. My speakers, which I love dearly and are the best by far that I’ve ever owned, have non adjustable gliders, so a no go on the threaded type. These isolation pucks are something I’ve wanted to explore for a long time. As I’m still finishing up my house from having moved one year ago, the Gaias will have to wait. But if I buy, then a Thanksgiving or holiday sale would be when I’d likely buy.

If anyone has used Gaias or a less expensive substitute that works equally well, I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Nick

You're welcome, Nick. Because you mentioned "gliders" , I can tell you I know of, but have no personal experience with, a product called "Herbie's Gliders". They purportedly do the same or similar function as IsoAcoustics products.

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/cone-spike-decoupling-glider

Perhaps that would be better for your application.

Best.

Hal

[malloy]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

Hi Hal,

Thanks for the insight. The question of coupling vs decoupling, draining energy vs. anchoring, etc. did cross my mind.

Those GAIA footers were actually what I first wanted to try. But they cost more than the rack itself and I wanted to do a cheap experiment to hear if I could detect a difference before spending any more.

The $25 I spent was small enough to warrant the experiment.

I was thinking of buying some of the IsoAcoustics footers and either:

a) Using them to replace the stock feet of the amp and source, or
b) Using them instead of the spikes as 'feet' under each shelf.

What I really want to try is buy a better rack or board that doesn't cost more than the gear that sits on it.

Any experience with any of their isolation shelves like the Zazen boards they have?

Paul

[GDHAL]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

Hi Hal,

Thanks for the insight. The question of coupling vs decoupling, draining energy vs. anchoring, etc. did cross my mind.

Those GAIA footers were actually what I first wanted to try. But they cost more than the rack itself and I wanted to do a cheap experiment to hear if I could detect a difference before spending any more.

The $25 I spent was small enough to warrant the experiment.

I was thinking of buying some of the IsoAcoustics footers and either:

a) Using them to replace the stock feet of the amp and source, or
b) Using them instead of the spikes as 'feet' under each shelf.

What I really want to try is buy a better rack or board that doesn't cost more than the gear that sits on it.

Any experience with any of their isolation shelves like the Zazen boards they have?

Paul

Hi Paul.

You're welcome. And I noted that your $25 expenditure on the spikes is a can't loose situation. I surmised you're in a trial phase of sorts. I have no experience with any IsoAcoustics product other than GAIA 1. I just read their marketing literature about the Zazen board. I think (just my gut intuition) that would be better than replacing the stock feet of any of your components with GAIA footers or pucks. The proviso there is that whatever gear you intend to place on it "fits" from a dimensions perspective and remaining mindful of the resulting height increase of doing so.

If you want to change the cabinet all together, I'm using Salamander. The materials that they use and the weight of the cabinet is such that it decouples itself, so to speak, from the floor without the need of having to add anything else.

My opinion only is that decoupling adds the most value with turntables, followed by speakers. Other gear like amps , preamps , dacs, phono stages , those sorts of components I don't think benefits enough by decoupling to justify any expenditure. But that's only my opinion.

If I had turntable (but I don't ) I would use the Zazen board or something very similar.

Best.

Hal

[Nick B]

I'LL chime in, if you don't mind. IMO *in general* spikes are no good. And I've done a fair amount of googling this subject and speaking with colleagues. I also had a bad experience of my own. As you only spent $25 it's no biggie one way or another (i.e. whether I'm right or wrong or whether you care or don't). Spikes, IMO, *couple* whatever is connected to the spikes. If coupling is what you want then fine. In my use case, I needed to *decouple* (my speakers from the floor). Spikes did not do that.

Long story short I installed IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and haven't looked back. They're not cheap. Townsend platforms are supposedly better and even more pricey.

YMMV.

Best

Hal

I’ve heard very good things about the GAIA and no negative comments yet. Haven’t been willing to spend the money…yet. But will post for the forum if I do. Hal, have you used the GAIA in multiple locations?

Hi Nick. I agree they are pricey. In my case I could actually hear the sonic benefit, which is usually the point of any audio change. I'm using GAIA 1 footers on my Triton Reference speakers. Four are needed per speaker. I did not change the location of the speaker before/after installation, so in that sense, no, I have not used them in multiple locations.

It's worth noting that GT Audioworks (I think Greg and Steve are on this forum, but I haven't read any posts of theirs here) have the GAIA 1 installed on their $50+k planar magnetic reference speakers . And they do move them.

If you get the GAIA, they come in six different sizes. What to get depends on the weight of the speaker. What I did (and I've had a few conversations with Sean Morrison of IsoAcoustics to which he stated "bravo, correct thing to do") is if you determine the size needed falls between two sizes, get the higher model (more weight capacity) version. Yes, the higher weight capacity footers cost even more.

Also worth noting, more so than spikes, is that installing the GAIA's on speakers (they have the same type of product known as a "puck" for components) raises the speaker approximately 1.5 inches higher off the floor. Conceivably that could be concerning depending on where the tweeter is situated in relation to your ears, and the vertical dispersion pattern of your particular tweeter. Good thing for me is I realized that in advance and contemplated the affect raising the speaker would have. Fortunately for me even that aspect worked in my favor.

I presume I've answered your question.

Best.

Hal

Hi Hal and thank you for your detailed and very helpful response. I was just on the Gaia website to see all the products they have. My speakers, which I love dearly and are the best by far that I’ve ever owned, have non adjustable gliders, so a no go on the threaded type. These isolation pucks are something I’ve wanted to explore for a long time. As I’m still finishing up my house from having moved one year ago, the Gaias will have to wait. But if I buy, then a Thanksgiving or holiday sale would be when I’d likely buy.

If anyone has used Gaias or a less expensive substitute that works equally well, I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Nick

You're welcome, Nick. Because you mentioned "gliders" , I can tell you I know of, but have no personal experience with, a product called "Herbie's Gliders". They purportedly do the same or similar function as IsoAcoustics products.

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/cone-spike-decoupling-glider

Perhaps that would be better for your application.

Best.

Hal

Thanks, Hal.

I’ve used other Herbies products, but not these. I am a bit skeptical that these might make an improvement to the extent of the Gaia, but I’ll see if I can find some comments online.

Nick

[malloy]

Nick,

This is much more expensive, but all reviews say worth the price:  https://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/hi-fi-home-cinema-vibration-isolation-speaker-podiums/

Are the gliders permanently attached to the bottom of the your speaker cabinets? I was thinking some sort of outrigger feet might work.

Paul

[GDHAL]

Nick,

This is much more expensive, but all reviews say worth the price:  https://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/hi-fi-home-cinema-vibration-isolation-speaker-podiums/

Are the gliders permanently attached to the bottom of the your speaker cabinets? I was thinking some sort of outrigger feet might work.

Paul

I mentioned  townshendaudio as supposedly being top of the line. Price point commensurate I might add.

The gliders are not permanently attached.

Show me something built to last.

[malloy]

Oh! You are right. Missed that!

And Townshend's seismic isolation stand is something else! It's got what looks like glass shelves(?), but looks like it means business!

Any experience with adding isolation/footers underneath a subwoofer? I have a small REL and the designer specifically warns against doing this, but until you try, who knows?

Paul

[James Edward]

Oh! You are right. Missed that!

And Townshend's seismic isolation stand is something else! It's got what looks like glass shelves(?), but looks like it means business!

Any experience with adding isolation/footers underneath a subwoofer? I have a small REL and the designer specifically warns against doing this, but until you try, who knows?

Paul

 I use these- https://isoacoustics.com/home-audio-isolation-products/aperta-sub/

As they say, YMMV, but in my situation-listening area is over a basement, with a typical suspended wood floor, they worked great. My floor was singing along with the sub; it wasn’t terrible, but the isolation device seems to have cleaned things up a bit.
I actually turned up the gain on the sub a notch or so to compensate, as the floor had been contributing it’s own sound to the mix.
I don’t know if a sub on a cement floor would benefit as much, but my sub on a suspended wood floor did.

[Nick B]

Nick,

This is much more expensive, but all reviews say worth the price:  https://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/hi-fi-home-cinema-vibration-isolation-speaker-podiums/

Are the gliders permanently attached to the bottom of the your speaker cabinets? I was thinking some sort of outrigger feet might work.

Paul

Paul,

I just found some pricing on Audiogon and the Townsend stuff is pricey…more than I’d like to spend at this time. I will admit that I just spent good 💵 and bought a used Hapa Audio polished silver Aero digital cable, and the improvement is significant over my WyWires Platinum digital coax. But…. it is the holiday season and my pockets are getting emptier 😳 If I knew the improvement would be as significant as the amazing Hapa Aero, I’d certainly consider doing it at some point. My JMR Voce Grande speakers have gliders, but they are fixed and not adjustable. Individual iso pucks would work. My speakers are at least 70 lbs each.

Nick