Anyone know anything more than was is being reported? I guess there's no review out yet.
No formal reviews yet. If they are better than previous models it will be another classic. magnepan conducts bllind tests with new models compared to the previous model. With that in mind it should be a winner.
They will be showing with an all Bryston system. Too bad not with Audio Research. Back in the day when AR and Maggie were close to each other Magnepan voiced their speakers with AR gear. Then it became popular to bi-amp with AR and Bryston using the infamous Bryston crossover.
Today with the Bryston 28B available no need to bi-amp but you can. I still own the 3As with the upgraded 3.6 ribbons. It wasn't until I heard the Pipedreams that my mind was changed. I still a place in my heart for Maggies they are truly special.
IMO one must own or at least hear them properly set [ a bitch BTW, took me years to position them perfectly]. Until then the Nervosa is incomplete. Very anxious to hear them.
charles
I wonder if they finally have come of age and changed the rubbish parts and wires and connectors they have used for 30 years! Not sure how the metal frame will be an improvement over the wood though. It still needs a more rigid one with proper outrigger legs that are adjustable. Still, these are only details and the price is nice and somehow, in spite of glaring cost-cutting in the most obvious places, they still manage to sound unique and wonderfull, when properly set up and amplified.
One would hope the crossover parts have been improved as well as the sructure itself. The metohod f screwing down the tweeter was a trip. A major improvement was had by installing Black hole Pad between frame and structure. Hopfully that issue is adressed as well. The metal stand with no spikes or footers was an issue.
To be honest if the price stays reasonable which it appears is then final tweaking is left to the buyer is OK with me.
what amazed though that with the so called cheap parts and loose as Goose frame the sound was always glorious. Go figure.
charles
Don't know how they do it, but every new generation of Maggies seems to eclipse the previous on. If you have the space to put them in and the ability to place them where they want to be (as opposed to where your wife wants them to be #-o), there are very few, if any, speakers that will give you a better bang for the buck.
The first time I took Bobby over to Jim M's house to hear his Maggies he looked at me and asked "How the heck can something like that produce sound so good????"
I summed up all of my engineering and technical knowledge and gave him the best answer I could......
"F@#*ing Magic" :thumb:
Maggies will always be dear to my heart. Everthing since has not been quite as transparent and detailed with midrange magic that puts you in an awesome place of realism. I will definitely want to hear the new 1.7
Henry
I read over on AC that Bryson AMPs will be paired-up with the Maggie 1.7's when they are introduced at CES later this week. It will be interesting to read the reports of the sound. Maybe Shane can possibly poke his head in the room and provide us with his comments!
Ken
I'll try my best to stop in and give a listen. Maggies have never really done it for me... so I'll try to be as objective as possible....
Quote from: hometheaterdoc on January 04, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
I'll try my best to stop in and give a listen. Maggies have never really done it for me... so I'll try to be as objective as possible....
Shane
Did you get a chance to hear the new maggies?
Henry
not yet... either tomorrow afternoon or Sunday... they are at T.H.E. Show and today I did the audio portion of CES at the Venetian... I did hear 3.6s in the PS Audio room today and there were the best I've heard the 3.6s.... still not my cup of tea but it was the best I've heard the 3.6s in the dozen or so times I've demoed them....
Quote from: hometheaterdoc on January 08, 2010, 11:16:44 PM
not yet... either tomorrow afternoon or Sunday... they are at T.H.E. Show and today I did the audio portion of CES at the Venetian... I did hear 3.6s in the PS Audio room today and there were the best I've heard the 3.6s.... still not my cup of tea but it was the best I've heard the 3.6s in the dozen or so times I've demoed them....
Thanks Shane. I am anxiously looking forward to your opinion of the 1.7 Maggie's. I suspect the rest of the Maggies, current and previous owners, want to know as well.
The 3.6 Maggies are just too big for me as they dominate any normal size room. Now if I had the luxury of a dedicated full basement with acoustical treatment, that could be the other ticket for me. Of course the right power amp to drive them goes without saying.
Henry
I auditioned a pair of very small Maggies a couple years ago they sounded bigger than life spatially and had a strong palpable midrange, but just too weird sounding, like colorized wizard of oz. I'd like to hear a grown up pair properly amplified and setup since so many of you guys think they are kittie's meow...
Quote from: richidoo on January 09, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
I auditioned a pair of very small Maggies a couple years ago they sounded bigger than life spatially and had a strong palpable midrange, but just too weird sounding, like colorized wizard of oz. I'd like to hear a grown up pair properly amplified and setup since so many of you guys think they are kittie's meow...
Dey are dey are. A bitch to set up, require loads of juice, space and a forgiving mate. SS with Maggies is a must unless one can afford a powerfull tubed amp. The AR 250 servo has 250 triode Watts. Worked like a charm with the Maggies but 32 yes 32 tubaroonies to replace every 4 to 5 years. Like everything else if it not a problem for ya jump in hook line and sinker. Rich I can almost guarantee the Maggies youheard were NOT set up correctly. They are just too good not to sound right. Really one must hear te 20.1s set up correctly. IMO no speaker at the price of the Maggies can do what they do.
charles
I showed the 20.1s to my wife. Her face looked like this:
:shock:
then
:x
then
:roll:
Oh yeah. 20.1's when set up and driven properly are truly something special. One of the few that I could live with pretty much forever with no regrets if I had the place to set them up right.
Bryan
richidoo,All of the Maggies produce a near life size image scale which takes some getting used to when compared to the image produced by most conventional cone driver loudspeakers. Large loudspeakers with WMTMW configurations will produce similar image scales. Most conventional design speakers with a single driver allocated to each frequency range don't produce as big an image. I enjoyed how my MG IIIs did did imaging and their midrange neutrality,their strongest point in my opinion was the ribbon tweeter. I have not heard that tweeters performance equaled by anything yet. I wound up moving to a new house without enough room for them and I decided to sell them. I didn't equal the image scale the Maggies produced until I purchased the speakers I currently own. I have to agree with rollo,the maggies must be setup correctly for a proper demo of what they can do. They are a garbage in garbage out speaker and will tell you if you have hooked up inferior equipment to them.
Scotty
I'm looking fwd to hearing Rob S' Maggie 3s soon.
Richie, you're welcome to fire up the IIIa's in your guest quarters (our spare BR) All we need is an extra preamp (preferably tube) to go with a spare set of Odyssey mono amps and you've got your bedroom system. hell, their sitting in the corner of the room anyway along with a set of .6qr's and an old pair of JSE model 1's.
I have to admit it would be a pain setting them up in my 2channel room. But with your help, I can be swayed to bring them in. I really never got them to sing in my room ( I even biamped them, but really would have liked to hear that setup with great big tube amps) , and I gave up on them after hearing a good Rick Craig floorstander. Let's get my current setup dialed in
I got better sound than the big IIIa's with my maggie .6's. The .6qr's w/ a sub were easier to place, sounded better, and worked well in the smaller rooms I had them set up in over the years (10). I had high hopes of enjoying the ribbon tweeters on the big IIIa's, but they didn't deliver in my setup. I thought the quasi-ribbons on the lower end models to be more natural sounding IMHO. I have better equipment now, so maybe it's time to give the maggies another chance w/ tubes and vinyl and great cabling. :)
Rob S.
richidoo,Upon further consideration after reading between the lines of your previous post I think I know what you might have heard that put you off the Maggies the last time you heard them. I believe you may have heard what I call the Great and Powerful OZ effect. This occurs when you listen to vocals which are usually close miked and you hear a giant disembodied head which appears out of scale in relation the the rest of instruments in the sound-stage. If the information on the recording is faithfully reproduced you will get this distortion of vocalist image scale every time the vocalist on a recording is close miked.
Scotty
That makes sense. Close miking puts their mouth right on your ear, at least the illusion. Which in some cases can be enjoyable.
(http://www.dianakrall.com/images/photos/photo7.jpg)
If I remember correctly, and this was a long time ago, they were powered by Quad 909. There were Quad classic 15W tube amps there too, but I think the dealer would not have even attempted that, but you never know. Henry do you remember those used baby Maggies Alex had right before you bought the Spendors? Anyway they were kinda small, maybe 5ft tall. Just sounded like they were really trying to impress and going way overboard. It was not a proper setup, just a quickie.
Thanks Rob, we'll figure out something. I can make a big mess then leave you to clean up.. hehe. You got a lotta stuff I'm dying to hear. Sol's amp should be interesting on them too. I read Cordemans review from 86.
Guys, how do Maggies differ from Quads? I had 2905s and had to bail out after 2 months. Plastic tone and no dynamics, limited SPL. All left brain, no balls. 2805 is the proper Quad essence.
Bearing in mind that my experiences were with earlier Maggies:SMG ,1.0,1.2, MGIIIs .
The 2way speakers were characterized by good to very good coherence,good image size and low coloration midrange. The MGIIIs were a little harder to setup and their top to bottom coherency was not quite as good,this was contrasted by the magic the ribbon tweeter delivered. I changed the entire crossover in the MGIIIs to a 12dB/oct Linkwitz-Riley crossover with the best components available in 1986. This helped out the integration a lot and sweetened up the ribbon. All of the speakers at that time were limited to 105dB peak output and showed signal compression starting in the low 90spls. The imaging was also not characterized by the tight focus exhibited by many good cone speakers. They also have a horizontal venetian blind effect. It is not apparent unless you move laterally out of the sweet spot.They do many things well and for some people their strengths far out weigh their faults. Their peak loudness capability and compression behavior may be substantially improved compared to my nearly twenty year old experiences with the earlier models.
Scotty
Awesome, thanks Scotty, as always. Gotta hear 20.1 sometime this year. Local dealer doesn't stock them.
Do the maggie crossover typically use 2nd order COs? Or your mod from 4th to 2nd?
At that point in time the 2 way loudspeakers were first order designs, the MG III was a second order Butterworth network.
All of the 2way loudspeakers had nearly perfect impulse response at the listening position if care was taken to time align their output by locating them properly with respect to the sweet spot.
Scotty
" If I remember correctly, and this was a long time ago, they were powered by Quad 909. There were Quad classic 15W tube amps there too, but I think the dealer would not have even attempted that, but you never know. Henry do you remember those used baby Maggies Alex had right before you bought the Spendors? Anyway they were kinda small, maybe 5ft tall. Just sounded like they were really trying to impress and going way overboard. It was not a proper setup, just a quickie."
Rich, those were not set up properly. Alex place was too crowed with other stuff and just not enough room. And they were the earlier version, prior to 1.5 Maggie's. I agree with what has been said about proper setup and the need for a good amp with plenty of power to drive them. Otherwise you will be sorely disappointed. IMHO there is no other speaker that can match the transparency, image height, vocals/midrange of the Maggies, when properly setup and powered by a good amp. Base is low enough not to miss the lower region. To be honest I still those Maggies and may well have to go back to them if the 1.7 are as good as they seem.
Henry
Thanks Henry, I thought you'd remember more specifics. The 1.7's being new just might appear at our local dive soon. Maybe we can meet there for a listen, but setup is not always great there.
Not too many 1st order designs anymore but some are coming back to it now that drivers FR is getting large enough frequency range while maintaining modern linearity at the same time. Do you know if modern production Maggies are LR2 or LR4?
The Maggies will still have a limit on pure SPL unless you go for the big boys. That said, the 'limit' is much greater than it used to be. If you have a huge room and want 'balls', they still might not be the cat's meow for you.
I have a friend who has 3.6's with some serious mods, external xovers, MYE stands, etc. driven by 4 tube amps (2x160WPC bottom, 2x70 on top) and the VTL 5.5 preamp. Room isn't huge though. Plenty of juice to make them get up and boogie.
Just as an aside, I had the big Korato Anniversary over at a reviewer's place a few months back. He runs 1.6's in a room that's probably 20x28 with an 8' ceiling. It can, however, be closed off from the rest of the house with solid doors. We were both absolutely floored at the bottom end that combination was capable of. Seamless imaging, no 'OZ' effect, great depth, etc. In all fairness, he has them about 6-7' from the wall behind them and his seat is WAY away from any boundaries. Lots of room in that space to tweak them and get them just right.
Bryan
Yeah, the new Maggie sound is a bit different and far better than the old Maggie sound. There are more dynamics per watt now and better extension on the low end. I've got a craving to hear some 3.6's in my room. ... Maybe if a pair shows up used in my neighborhood.
Hmmm, my birthday IS in April.
ok... I demo'ed them... if you can call it that...
It was the stupidest demo I've ever been to. They *REFUSED* to play the 1.7s by themselves. They played 3 channel stereo with their reference center channel doing most of the work. I have absolutely no idea what the speakers sound like and they admitted that was the entire goal. They don't want you to be able to tell anything at all about the speakers at the show other than to look at them in person and determine if the overall sound of the entire system was ok or not. They want you to go to a dealer and hear them........ which would be fine if this wasn't a trade show to show your wares to people in the industry. Truly idiotic...
I have absolutely no idea if the 1.7s are any good. They weren't real open to playing any other source material than their own. If I pushed the matter, they likely would have played my test disc. But it was a non-forceful "no" to the idea of playing source material with which they weren't familiar. What source material I did hear sounded veiled up top. It had the larger than life, exaggerated soundstage thing going on moreso than the 3.6 speakers in the PS Audio room. Was it bad? No. Was it my favorite sound at the show? No....
The better half was along with me today. She kind of summed things up for me when we left that demo: "Why are people selling speakers so arrogant? Isn't the whole point of the show to sell you products? Shouldn't they be swapping things around since you asked? You do that all the time when people come over to listen at our place. Have they never heard of the concept of customer service?"
I tried to explain the elitist attitude in high end audio and how they don't necessarily send sales people to these shows. It's often more engineering types that are wrapped up in their own product "babies" being the best thing ever and everything else is garbage. Plus, since there are so many people attending, it's just not feasible to change things around for everyone every time they ask. She didn't get it.... I was told I'm never allowed to buy any Magnepan speakers.
Bummer! I suspect that whoever was there from Magnepan had strict instructions not to play the 1.7 because they did not know how best to set them up for two channel, or something went wrong with the planned set-up. Still it does not make any sense to me that they would not have the right set-up for the new speakers! Hopefully, some reviewer will find out what the real deal was and spill the beans.
Hc
CES is THIS week? oh crap.. we better get started! :duh
:rofl:
Guess we'll just have to wait on this new Maggie until proper reviews appear.
I'm still shaking my head the next day about the maggie thing.... so I guess in one way they were successful with their show. They raised attention levels about the product and made it memorable.... except in my case, I think for all the wrong reasons.
The overriding fear they had was that someone would come into the room and sit way off to the side, not get good sound, and then post on the internet about how awful the new speaker was. Fine. Point taken.
But that says some things. Maggie views all dealers and industry folks as morons. Although I'm sure there are more than a few in the industry, I personally (and from what I can gather in watching and talking with other attendees) won't comment publicly on anything I hear at shows unless I've sat in the prime listening spots at a minimum. Also, anyone who has ever been to an audio show knows that the rooms are challenging. I don't talk about bass and midbass performance for the most part because of the problems of acoustics and the fact that very few rooms have treatments. Exceptions are rooms with products that have EQ capability built in (Vandersteen being an example with their bigger speakers). Shows are to get a general feel for things as you listen through the known deficiencies of the rooms and find something you want to explore more by bringing in product and having a listen in a more familiar environment.
Maggie was the only demo I went to that was this far out in left field and unaccomodating. I'm sure there were other situations like this as I've been to rooms in the past at other shows where manufacturers wouldn't play other people's disks and had set displays. But in my opinion, it's pretty stupid to introduce a new product and then not let people listen to it... and I don't mean as left and right ambience to their reference center channel.
A great example of a completely different attitude was down the hall at Divergent Technologies, the makers of Reference 3A speakers and importer of the ASL tube products, etc. Dave Belles of Power Modules told me I *had* to listen to these speakers as he felt they worked very well with his electronics and he really liked the sound of them, especially for the price. When I first stopped in, they were playing one of their lower end models and it was a specific demo for some industry folks. The owner chatted with me a second and we made arrangements for me to stop back by and he would swap in the Grand Veena speakers and let me have a go with the system. I stopped by at the agreed timeframe and he moved things around, connected different electronics at my request in addition to moving the speakers into place, gave me the remotes, queued up my test disc, and let me play for a while. Guess which company I'm more likely to do business with if everything else is equal with regard to sound?
Shane:
Thanks for the reports and I hope you had a great time at the show. I am curious about how the manufacturers and dealers view this year (2010) for potential business? I know it is a totally different world but I attended the local boatshow in Raleigh on Saturday - the first one I have attended in 3 years. There was a tremendous amount of activity around the tackle area but the area around the boats were not busy at all. I saw very few people getting up inside boats which is a strong indication that folks are holding-off on purchasing a major toy like a boat.
Ken
Anal is as anal does. Makes no sense to me. Would not a Manf. even a well known and respected one NOT want new dealers or welcome all. So we should go to Lyric in Manhattan to listen. They don't want us audiophiles in their store. We don't spend enough for them. As a Maggie owner it galls me to hear stuff like this. I have been seriously considering trading in the Pipes for the 20.1s. Still have the AR DR250 servo to drive them however the only Maggie dealer is Lyric. When mike Kaye was the owner it was a treat to go there now, just NOT the same.
charles
Lyric yuck. You have to have a platinum card to get in the door. This is not good about the Maggie's. What about a group buy? (just kidding)
FYI - Audio Den in Lake Grove is still listed as an authorized Maggie dealer, so you are not held hostage by Lyric. I hope the tubes on the d-250 are still in good shape. Re-tubing that beast would be a hard nut to swallow.
I didn't realize that Mike Kay was no longer associated with Lyric. Too bad, he was a class guy. When did he retire?
Quote from: tmazz on January 11, 2010, 01:27:17 PM
FYI - Audio Den in Lake Grove is still listed as an authorized Maggie dealer, so you are not held hostage by Lyric. I hope the tubes on the d-250 are still in good shape. Re-tubing that beast would be a hard nut to swallow.
I didn't realize that Mike Kay was no longer associated with Lyric. Too bad, he was a class guy. When did he retire?
Several years ago. Lennie took over. Mike pops in occasionally for some serious clients but basically out of the picture. Forgot about Audio den.
Tubes are good all 32 of them. Only 20 6550s .Yes it is a bear to deal with. 250W of triode bliss. A different league. Yes about $1200 for a total re tube. With the Maggies [ 3As] a match made in heaven BTW I would put it up against any tubed amp of the day. List price was $8800 a new AR with that power over $40,000 today. For $3500 someone can have a true classic. Maybe :?
charles
Only 32 tubes??? ](*,) Ah, the cost of audio bliss........
Sorry to hear that Audio Den is a no go. I just saw them listed on the Magnepan site as an authorized dealer. The last time I was out there I bought tubes for my CJ Premier 2 and since that was out of the house before Billy was born it has to be more than 21 years ago.
It just blows my mind that most of the high end shops left in our area are the ones that everybody say "Oh no, not that a-hole" every time you mention them, while so many of the "good shops have fallen by the wayside. I guess this falls under the saying "Only the good die young"...... :(
I was just out at Audio Den before christmas to drop off my Ayre CD player for the MP upgrade. They had a set of Maggie 3.6's set up and powered by soem AR reference equipment (100W tube amp, preamp, CD player). It sounded truly spectacular and has me itching to hear these 3.6's in my own room. Maybe if I can find a used pair on Craigslist locally.
They did offer to let me bring my McCormack DNA .5 amp out and hook it up to the 3.6's to see how it works with them. Lets see, my amp puts out 200W into 4 ohms and 350W into 2 ohms, so it may be OK with them. The AR amp they were using was only 100W of tube power and these speakers sang beautifully.
They didn't have a pair of 1.7's around though, at least not yet.
Bob I have the 3As with the 3.6 ribbons if you want. They were Izzys before me. Izzy had Larry Moore replace some crossover caps which improver their performance. Tighter mid bass with more bass extention. $1200 or $1000 for AN members.
charles
Thanks Charles, but just speculation on my part these days. Not really looking to buy anything at this point.
First critical commentary, from Jon Valin, one of my favorite reviewers, he likes it. He likes every Maggie, so it's no surprise. He jabbed the Bryston amps a couple times also. He is master of the "read between the lines" school of audio journalism so the Bryston comments are not by accident.
http://www.avguide.com/blog/magnepan-mg-17-unqualified-triumph
(http://jlvalin.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p1033357705-5.jpg)
Either they finally broke down and started giving stereo demos after your visit, Shane, or you need to walk the halls with a VIP next time. :thumb:
So Jonathan got the VIP tour while Shane got the bums rush. Does that really surprise any of us? Shane is a local dealer and as such how many customers will he he demoing and influence on the matter of Maggie 1.7s? A couple of hundred, maybe a couple of thousand. Jon on the other hand will be publishing a write-up in a major audiophile magazine (and website) that will most likely reach over a 1/4 million audiophiles (and may very well be the vehicle that pushes some of those potential customers into listening to Maggies in Shane's store (if he should decide to carry them.) Above all else CES is an advertising tool and like all advertising tools one of it's goals is to reach as many potential customers as possible. While I realize that it sucks for Shane to be treated the way he was :( (and I don't think it was the smartest thing for Maggie to piss on one of the front line rank and file sales folks :duh ) I clearly understand why they would have bent over backwards to suck up to Jonathan.
or he heard it with the center channel and didn't realize it ;)
sounds like they wouldn't play any of his music either as he describes not being familiar with the music when describing the sound....
I've dealt with pretentious, arrogant, snotty, etc. when it comes to boys and their toys at shows. I've had manufacturers refuse to play test music from folks. After hearing some of the stuff that people want to play at these shows, I can understand why they'd want to avoid doing that :) heck, some of my test music was not exactly audiophile approved either. But this Maggie demo is still resonating with me days later. I guess part of it was that I wasn't feeling good at all that day, and have felt like royal crap since (gotta love getting sick on vacation). But it was just the wrong way to go about the show, imo....
Quote from: hometheaterdoc on January 14, 2010, 04:42:04 PM
or he heard it with the center channel and didn't realize it ;)
sounds like they wouldn't play any of his music either as he describes not being familiar with the music when describing the sound....
I've dealt with pretentious, arrogant, snotty, etc. when it comes to boys and their toys at shows. I've had manufacturers refuse to play test music from folks. After hearing some of the stuff that people want to play at these shows, I can understand why they'd want to avoid doing that :) heck, some of my test music was not exactly audiophile approved either. But this Maggie demo is still resonating with me days later. I guess part of it was that I wasn't feeling good at all that day, and have felt like royal crap since (gotta love getting sick on vacation). But it was just the wrong way to go about the show, imo....
Shane:
I want to thank you for stopping by the room and trying to hear them. Many of us realize your ear for speakers and were interested in your feedback!
Kenj
His Rainy Night in Georgia is one of his test tracks that he plays on everything, same tracks year after year. You will see it mentioned throughout his reviews. There is a lot of between the lines in there. I'd love to hear them with a nice tube amp.
QuoteI'd love to hear them with a nice tube amp.
Based on Maggie Reputation it had better be a powerful tube amp. :thumb:
Ken
Maggies are ALWAYS something special. The 1.6's blew me away in a huge room. 1.7's with all ribbons, unless they TOTALLY screwed up should be gorgeous to listen to.
Bryan
So Bryan they are real ribbons as opposed to the planar ribbons? You must mean on the tweets, right?
good ?, the way I read it was that the QR (quasi ribbon) which handles hi's on every model below the 3 series has it. And the 1.7 from what limited reading I've done, the reviewer said was that the bass driver was also a QR, unlike the earlier models magnetic planar (mylar). Rich, I'll show you the difference, as I have both speaker socks exposed ( I took off the decorative trim) I can get these speakers naked for you.
I would really like to hear the 1.7's, wonder how the quasi ribbon on the lows will sound. I have no idea what limitations it might have, I thought the material was only used in the tweeter section.
Rob S.
Yes the 1.7s will be considered bargin when the smoke settles. The smaller Maggies below the "3" series are VG for the price and will give you a taste of the Maggie sound. Saying that the "3"series is where the real Maggies show up.
If one cannot afford the "3" save until you can. IMO the real ribbon is what makes the Maggies special. I have used SS and tubes with the Maggies. For me the high powered tube amp is the way to hear them in all their glory. An expensive way to go yes, however the results are staggering. If one goes the SS route I would recco a tubed Pre or CDP in the chain.
If one has a listening room that is rectangular your in like Flynn. Either the long wall or short will work. The short wall is preferred with the tweeters on the OUTSIDE. Absorption on rear wall and diffusion at rear wall. As far as subs go you'll need a fast one to stay with the panels. Sunfire subs have a VG synergy with Maggies. Depending on the music you listen to a sub may not be required unless your DAD is E. Biggs [ organ]. If your a head banger SS and dual subs just NO 115DB sessions.
Guys it took the Pipedream speakers to pull me away from the Maggies which resided in our home for 12 years.
If you are in the NJ area go see John Rutan at "The Sound Connection and have a listen. Not many set them up better than him. Both SS and tubed amps to listen to.
If you treasure top end performance like me unless you have Ravens or 24 silk domes per side[ Pipes] tweeters the Maggie ribbon is the end all IMO tweeter. If one has metal tweeters in their speakers listen to a Maggie true ribbon as the "Who" said " You won't be fooled again.
Richadoo they would sing in your big room. The bite of the horn the squeal of the Violin is there in spades.
charles
Nice post Charlie, thanks man!!
Rollo: if you ever pass through Charleston, WV, I could use your skills with setting these IIIa's up. Can't get them to sound "just right". Their close to the modded .6qr's w/subs I have but lack the magic. Maybe some crossover work would help them along with better placement.
Rich: see if you can bring up the big AR tube amp to run my 3a's biamped. Before I sell the 3a's I need to get placement "just right"
Rob S.
Quote from: Rob S. on January 18, 2010, 08:35:13 AM
Rollo: if you ever pass through Charleston, WV, I could use your skills with setting these IIIa's up. Can't get them to sound "just right". Their close to the modded .6qr's w/subs I have but lack the magic. Maybe some crossover work would help them along with better placement.
Rich: see if you can bring up the big AR tube amp to run my 3a's biamped. Before I sell the 3a's I need to get placement "just right"
Rob S.
When Richadoo makes some copies of the Sheffield/XLO test disc it will help bigtime. no need to modify to get them right. Try 6 to 7 feet apart tweeters on the outside and toed in about 2 inches. then move your seat back and forth until you like what you hear. Then put on that disc and listen to the out of phase track. Move the RIGHT [move one speaker only] speaker only starting with front to back, then toe in to enhance the out of phase voice until it sounds like its coming from all around the room.
The distance between is not as critical as how far from the wall boundaries they are. you need at least 3 ft from side walls and as much from the rear wall as possible in your room.
A freaken 1/2 inch can make a difference, so be patient.Use a track your familiar with, program CDP to repeat a 30 second play and listen over and over until your happy.
Two people are required so get a cracking.
charles
Charlie/Ron
Have you trid the cardas method for dipole placement. I believe you do need a rectangular room.
I've tried it recently and like it. Does load the room differently then where I had them before.
i have the tweets on the inside with about 2 inches of toe in
http://www.cardas.com/speaker_placement.php?type=dipole (http://www.cardas.com/speaker_placement.php?type=dipole)
Rob,the toe-in is also critical. The speakers have a pronounced horizontal venetian blind effect and the toe-in must be adjusted to produce the flattest frequency response at the sweet-spot. With the wrong toe-in and positioning too close to the back and side walls you won't get everything they are capable of.
Scotty
I was surprised that the Cardas calculator (thanks Emil) put my imaginary Maggies centers 4.5 feet away from the sidewalls. I would not have thought that they, being dipoles, would prefer to be so far away from sidewalls.
While the front radiation is out phase with that emitted from the rear the cancellation of radiation due to wrap around from front to rear really isn't that significant until the wave-lengths are perhaps more than twice as long as the width of the speakers baffle. You still want to spread the time out between the directly radiated sound reaching the listening position and the sound hitting the first reflection point,both to the rear of the speaker and to the side walls. The focus in the sound-stage will be better the further the panels are away from the room boundaries. The reflections from behind the loud-speaker cause interference with the localization of instruments with-in the sound-stage. There is a conflict inherent in positioning Maggies in the listening room. On the one hand you are trying to maximize the bass the speaker can produce at the listening position,this requires room boundary reinforcement which mandates placing them in proximity to the walls of the listening room. On the other hand they will image better if they are not too close to the front wall and sidewalls. Satisfactory performance of the loudspeakers involves arriving at a compromise location that maximizes the bass and the image quality the Maggies can produce. An individual user will frequently trade-off one aspect of performance over the other especially if room treatment is not possible. Using acoustic treatments to the side and rear of the speakers will help reduce the impact of the radiation emitted to the rear and side on the the imaging and allow you to more easily optimize the speakers bass output.
Scotty
I ran the Cardas Calcs for my room dimensions (both the standard version and the special version for dipoles and came up with some intersting results both calculators told me to place my speakers thesame distance from the sidewalls, but the dipole calc told me to place a set of dipoles 1 1/2 feet closer to the back wall. This kind of flies in the face of the generally accept thought that Maggies (or any dipole) are harder to place in a room because they need to be further away from the walls than dynamic speakers. And while I have never had a set of dipoles in my mancave and therefore cannot attest to the accuracy of the dipole numbers, I will say that the results from the standard calculator are spot on. I have spent the last 25 years tweaking the placement of my Thiel speakers by ear and the measurements out of the Cardas calculator are off by no more than 2 - 3 inches from where my speakers sit today. And some of those differences are most likely caused by the asymmetrical placement of furnature and equipment and record racks.
Bottom line is while the final dial in has to be done by ear (I would listen using the Sheffield disc), I would say that the Cardas calculator will give you a really good place to start from if you have a rectangular room.
When I had Quad 2905s they liked to be 6 feet out from the front wall. I started at 8 and pushed back a little at a time until I could hear them start to thicken up. But they did not like to be as far apart as my dynamic speakers. Maybe the same with the Maggies, which Cardas puts closer together than the optimal location for my cone speakers.
Quote from: Bigfish8 on January 14, 2010, 05:37:13 PM
QuoteI'd love to hear them with a nice tube amp.
Based on Maggie Reputation it had better be a powerful tube amp. :thumb:
Ken
A solid state amp that doubles down in output power from 8 ohms to 4 (100 wpc to 200 wpc) will make the maggies sing and dance with you across the floor.
Henry
I found it very helpful and much easier to have someone move/adjust the maggies while you sit in your chair until you hear everything come together. Trying to do this by yourself could be a long and arduous process.
Henry
Wonder when someone will actually get to hear the 1.7's properly set-up! I need vicarious arousal :shock:
Shep,
If you need some "vicarious arousal" from a Maggie check out the picture of her from the Snap-on Calendar aa
(http://www.zyo.jp/s-jct/tools/home/snapon/contents/calendar/cld3005/cld30056.jpg)
It is really nice to see a Snap-On Calendar again as they have been outlawed from all of my customer's maintenance shops.
Ken
Dam political correctness police take all the fun out of everything :(