I am going to replace some Blue Jean cables in my main system from pre to amp. What should I expect?
Mike
Don't expect much for around 100hrs. experience speaking
Jeez Mike I'm web-stalking you 8)
I haven't heard the Grovers but I remember some saying that the they were more open and revealing than the Realities. Now,I thought the Realities were far more open and dynamic than the Blue Jeans.
So my guess is to expect a great deal more HF information and dynamics through the Grovers vs.BJC and a more up-front sound.
Let us know, this'll be interesting.
-Mike
Mike
I am now using them also between my Pre and Amp
Evan,
Did you notice a sound improvement/change? Or are they still breaking in.
Mike,
Im getting a restraining ORDER!!!!!
Shep,
ARe they still in your system... you like them?
M
Mike (stalkER) you got it about right. From Blue Jeans to Grover is a big jump in openness. The new SX are supposedly a nice balanced wire. The most recent version previous to that which I heard were tilted up compared to my wires.
Mike (stalkEE) I used older grovers for 2 happy years with my Manley Snappers. I liked the combo. I think for the latest version he took out the teflon insulator and added aluminum somehow after hearing JPS' aluminum copper alloy.
I still keep my Blue Jeans around for emergencies, like when fancy wires break, or when a harsh component needs a wet blanket treatment. I love Blue Jeans!
After visiting this site and learning about Grover interconnects, I bought a used set of S (white) cables from a local guy last summer. I use it between my Bel Canto 1.1 DAC and preamp. It replaced a Truth Link which I moved to my top end amplifier. My system uses active Linn Isobariks and Exposure Amplifiers/Crossover.
The Grover took some time to settle in, but provides great detail and dynamics from top to bottom. I have two Harmonic Tech Truth Links. They have great mids and top end. I use them on those amplifiers. The bass amp gets an LAT IC-100D. The preamp to crossover is an LAT IC-200 Mk II.
So I have 5 interconnect cables. The only two that can handle all frequencies well are the Grover and LAT IC-200 Mk II. I always consider the source to be the priority on a system, so I use the Grover at the DAC. It was the least expensive cable and is likely the best one.
Hi Rich,
Yup, I'll use my BJCs on my tuner when I want a low-pass filter for FM hiss...
-Stalker
Thats what Mike(stalker) said about Blue Jean that they were like wet blankets. Im trying to imagine what a wet blanket sounds like... heavy? Is that it? Heavy handed, not nimble? They are my emergency wire too... actually my second collection of wires, the first being Monster... but that was in the early 90s. So I was a severe novice... now just a novice. lol. So for my Speaker cables I use REality reds. Source BDA-1 to preamp-MAC Palladiums.
I realize that cables do make a difference. I like the bang for the buck method. Hopefully the Grovers make that happen.
I did read that the JPS use the alumcopper alloy. Are they similar sounding interconnects?
M
I've had several versions of Grover's cables and presently have the SX. It's the best of the lot imo, especially good value if you happened to have been in on the original group buy here, which has meant being able to upgrade to each new version for 50$. It is an honest, open, quite transparent presentation. It is not as organic or flowing or engaging as the cable I have from John (of coolcable fame) but might work very well in another system (I'm thinking tubes). In this price range, compromises and limitations are inevitable. The non-believers will tell you "nonsense, which is their right. If I had the money to put where my mouth is, I would plunk down some serious cash for John's "Silkworm +",having a down-scale version of this that he made for me. It's very frustrating knowing how much better cables can acheive and being unable to go for broke...having said that, Grover's cables strike a good ballance between money and performance and since he is always trying to find ways to improve (and might still be ameanable to an ungrading sceam), it's not a bad way to go. The idea of spending a thousand dollars and above for a pair of interconnects appalls me but somehow, with this Nervosa, the "reasonable" ethical mind get's switched off and greedy paws reach into tattered bank accounts :duh
Wow $1199 a meter (Silkworm +). Its the price of a component. I guess cables are a component... heh.
I am putting the Grover SX on tubes so I will let you know. I love an organic sound though.. hopefully they dont come across analytical.
M
Nothing wrong with listening to tubes analytically!
Quote from: Deton Nation on February 27, 2010, 02:35:41 PM
I did read that the JPS use the alumcopper alloy. Are they similar sounding interconnects?
In some ways they are similar, like treble detail, openness. But JPS has no ringing whatsoever, so it sounds quieter, calmer, does not add excitement or flava like most wires. Very not there. I use the lowest level JPS interconnects, about the same price as grovers, but the expensive JPS stuff (majenta, not purple as RobS informs me...) is unbelievable. Carl thinks it is so 'not there' that it has a distinct feeling or "sound." Some wires have a very enjoyable flava, so JPS is not for everybody, but I like it. I've not heard the latest Grovers since all his big changes so my opinion could be out of date.
I don't think the Grovers are analytical. The older versions had a fun sound. Easy to get lost in the music. I think you'll dig it.
Cool! Cant wait... I look forward to lifting the wet blanket off my system...
But it is truly amazing how a cord can change the sound of your entire system. And since getting the Manley with the added detail (a lot) it makes it easier to hear. Or maybe some cables make less of a difference than others. Not really sure actually. hehe
M
If you think 1000$ is pricey, think of Kubala sosna etc! The higher you go up in quality with the other components, the more cables become components and not just wires to string them together. I am waiting actually for somethings from Grover (a month now :( ) an unterminated poxer cable and something else I'm not supposed to talk about...which is easy seeing as it isn't here. I don't think the SX are analytical either Rich, they're just not as gracious as those from John. Admitedly "gracious" isn't a very audio term, but in this case it fits the man and his work.
While I echo what Rich says about the JPS, I think those of us that have been through the many flavors of Grover's ICs have all enjoyed the 'whites' perhaps the most. I'm currently using a pair of the SX on my analog rig which seems to work well.
The last Grover SX I heard is a good cable. It's a little different than the JPS Ultraconductor, they just present the music a little differently.. but I wouldn't say either is better than the other. I preferred the JPS for my system as it is more transparent in my application. The upper end JPS cables start to do things I don't like in my system. There is the 'fantasy effect' that the SC3's have that's too much of a good thing in my system, for my preferences. If I were to swap the Ultraconductors for the SC3's, some (if not most) people will prefer the SC3's.. just not me. If I swap in the Grover SX IC's, 1 or 2 may prefer the Grovers but most would prefer the Ultraconductors. (or at least that's the reactions I remember when doing this in the past)
Cables are very phycho-acoustic. It is tough to be objective when you have your own expectations, personal relationships, and dollars invested. It seems we all want to find an underdog to win and then bring to glory as our discovery.
QuoteCables are very phycho-acoustic. It is tough to be objective when you have your own expectations, personal relationships, and dollars invested. It seems we all want to find an underdog to win and then bring to glory as our discovery.
Very true.. Double blind would be the way to go, but every member would have to know the rest of the system intimately, so they knew the starting sound signature. And then it might be applicable to that audio system.
M
Blindfolding can only discover whether or not there is a difference in sound between one component and another. It can't be used for determining preference. It can do Yes or No, but it can't do Good or Bad. For that you need to listen over a long period, by yourself, lots of different music, swapping each week. Then you give enough time for the subtle aspects of each to rise to awareness. Initial impression is important and shouldn't be ignored, but there is more that emerges after the brain gets used to the initial sound.
In our group lots of use prefer the open clean quiet sound of JPS. But others prefer a more cozy sound. The last wire shootout Carl had some Japanese silk covered wire that I thought sounded awesome, but it was not at all like JPS, except in price. What was that pretty greenish silk IC, Carl? I would like to hear the silkworms sometime too.
Those are Audio Tekne cables, Rich.. They are the type of cable you have to hear for a while to fully appreciate. I use them between TT, phono pre, and preamp... and they are very much at home this way. I like them anywhere in the chain, though.
Used they're about 300/pr... give or take.. and I think they're better than most other cables for what I like... especially at the price.
-C
Those things are exotic sweetness. I don't know if I could do it everyday, but once every full moon would be nice. Comfy and sexy, but not overdone.
Sweet would be? Warm and rounded? idk... asking.
M
Aw shit. Busted. I'm just copying Robert Harley. 8) I don't know what it means either.
To me, warm, rounded, sweet are polite words mostly coined by J Gordon Holt to describe "less resolution" or "euphonic distortion" without pissing off those who build or own the stuff. "Euphonic" components can be used to cover up harshness, or to add flava as desired, or, most often, a little of both. In a wire the effect can be subtractive like rolling of the highs with capacitance, or smearing the harshness with inductance. Or it can be additive like tuning the ringing of copper so that it sounds very pleasant and covers up or changes the nasties just enough. Some wires have a combination of all these things and more. Others try to minimize the distortions to go for transparency.
A wire that is very transparent like JPS is not right for a budget system with lots of different distortions from cheap SS amps, electrolytic coupling caps in the CDP, aluminum drivers, etc. Just like a coppery warm wire like Reality is not ideal for a very low distortion system, unless you like that sound and want to add it to your music, which many people do given Reality's popularity. Harmonic Technology is another popular wire due to the pleasant ringing. Beautiful tube distortion is often added to music in surprisingly high proportion. People think it sounds as good or better than the music itself, so they like low distortion speakers to squeeze every drop of love from their high distortion tube preamps. Like hot fudge is better than vanilla ice cream? When you can just sit and listen to anything and it all sounds good for hours and hours, there is some combination of system distortion that is bewitching you. Enjoy! But know it is not just the music that is so satisfying.
I like both approaches, so I have two systems. One with ceramic drivers, SS amp, jitterfree DAC. Another with paper single drivers, triode amps, vinyl. I love them both. :thumb:
What a great description of wire strategy.. It makes sense to me... and likely scratches the surface of what a lot of cable manufacturers are trying to do. And suggests there is a science to cable building.
I like to think that the companies I buy from use science first and trial and error for proof of concepts... I almost think they have to in order to get predictable results for 'refined palettes' of people like myself. I know there are many cables made by ear only... and they tend to be the most reliant on synergistic matches.
-C
Your the second person I read that says copper covers up bad systems or bad sound. Copper is warm and not as detailed, from my experience and talking to people who know more. What is best a combination? Silver only? Gold only?
Would Grovers be scientific? I think he mentioned something about using his ear and how its an art.
Interesting because I have MAC Palladiums which I believe strip some of the detail but give a really nice tone and weight to the music.
M
Quote from: Carlman on March 02, 2010, 04:47:52 AM
... for 'refined palettes' of people like myself.
-C
Hah - this coming from the guy who coined the phrase
Liquid Ear Sex when referring to the sound of a system late one night at a G2G! :rofl: :rofl:
L.E.S. can be refined, if you use a strainer. :lmc:
There's nothing inherently wrong with copper, it is used in all the studios where the music is recorded and mastered, so its sound is all over our recordings. It is the major ingredient in JPS Alumiloy which does not ring at all. I thought that Grover used copper and silver ribbons in some of his wires at one point. Silver and gold have drawbacks as well as advantages too. The conductor alloy and plating, conductor shape and braid geometry, and wire construction (grounding scheme and shielding) all play a big part in the final sound. You can read Grover's patents online, the silver is not his innovation, it is some aspect of his ribbon construction. High frequencies seem to like flat conductors - more surface area?
What makes Grover so appealing compared to other underdog wires is the good transient speed for the relatively low cost. Many audiophiles have never heard a really fast wire, so grover is a revelation compared to other inexpensive upgrade wires. But he's not the only one offering that kind of performance and value.
Quote from: richidoo on March 02, 2010, 08:08:17 AM
High frequencies seem to like flat conductors - more surface area?
We had a Syndrome member who was kind of like a mad scientist, always playing around trying to figure out how things work and improve them. (He actually did know quite a bit about inventing, he held that patent for an artificial hip.) Anywhay at one point his latest project was homemade interconnects and he would run the raw wire through his wife's pasta machine before he assembled the cables because he swore that the flat wire sounded better. He had good ears and a good system so I never doubted him. It surely wasn't the craziest thing we had ever done to out systems.
hehehe!!!!!
M
Grover uses a hand roller to press his own custom ribbons too.
Here's a possible explanation for ribbon conductors, but there must be more to it because there are plenty of excellent round wires.
http://www.analysis-plus.com/design_whitepaper.html
Analysis Plus has oval wires that are rather flat. But they're hollow as well (filled with a dielectric in the center), so does that count?
I was thinking it might be similar because hollow tube doubles the surface area. I didn't know it has a dielectric inside, that's cool. Their webpage suggests hollow performs better at highest audio freqs than plain flat ribbon, and rounds. But I don't understand the physics.
I never understood how the AP's were 'oval'.. they look like flat braided copper wires... and that's it. I didn't see any dielectric inside the ones I used. I can't remember which model I had or used.. but it had 'oval' in the name... and they were purple.
Round wires are likely easier to produce. The sonic advantages of flatness are probably easily overcome with other methods. Besides, like everything flat doesn't necessarily guarantee any specific type of sound. Just like every ribbon tweeter doesn't sound good.. Every flat cable doesn't.. Cables are just so full of variables, trying to define them gets exhausting.
I cut down a longer pair of AP's into some shorter lengths and reterminated them. You're right, they are basically multi stranded, braided copper shielding that has been flattened with a dielectric in the middle, so they call them hollow. I have no idea about the physics of the oval. I do know that they sound pretty nice though.
I've also experimented with some DIY cables using flat multi computer hookup wire (the flat white stuff inside). As you can imagine there are a myriad of ways to hook up the multi strands of this to reduce capacitance or reduce inductance and increase shielding and such. Each has its drawbacks and advantages. It was fun to play with and I did come up with something that sounded damn good, but I couldn't make a firm connection to the RCA and give it any kind of strain relief. They were pretty fragile. Ohn and you do need a tinning pot to do it right because they don't strip very well at all.
Is tinning when you put solder on the end of the wire?
M
Yeah, plain solder is tin + lead, ~60/40
Yeah, but a tinning pot is something else. It's a ceramic (usually) bowl that is very hot and full of molten solder. It's for tinning wire ends that are difficult or impossible to strip first, usually very fine gauge. So you dip the insulated wire end in the pot. it burns off the insulation and tins the wire beneath it. Of course over time the solder gets polluted with melted insulation.
What is the smallest wire good for interconnects that I could strip myself.. and I suppose 4 is better than 2 (wires)... ?
M
Signal is only 1V with <100 mA of current, so any insulated wire you can find will handle the signal power, but something bigger might sound better, or not. 4 is not necessarily better than 2. It's a black art, you just have to experiment see if you can find a secret recipe. Tear apart commercial wires that you like for clues. Hey don't forget your friends when you buy your first Audioquest mansion. Pictures of ocean cliffs and crashing waves might be nice for your first print ads. Or maybe butterflies? :D
Quote from: richidoo on March 03, 2010, 07:03:07 AM
Signal is only 1V with <100 mA of current, so any insulated wire you can find will handle the signal power, but something bigger might sound better, or not. 4 is not necessarily better than 2. It's a black art, you just have to experiment see if you can find a secret recipe. Tear apart commercial wires that you like for clues. Hey don't forget your friends when you buy your first Audioquest mansion. Pictures of ocean cliffs and crashing waves might be nice for your first print ads. Or maybe butterflies? :D
lol!!!! :)
Actually there's a lot of science that suggests a combination of different guages, as well as solid vs stranded combo's might be best. So combining a solid cors with a stranded return lead consisting of different guage wires could be quite a combo. I know that's what Jon Risch recommends for his 89259/89248 twisted pair (and I used them for a long, long time). It looks like Jon's site on Geocities is gone now. Not sure if he's moved it to some other location. There was a lot of good stuff there (too bad).
Here's a link to my question on where he moved it all. Hopefully he did put it somewhere else, but if not then a search on the Cable Forum at www.audioasylum. will get you a lot of info on these cables:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/14/145417.html (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/14/145417.html)
I've been listening to the SX for a few days now. It's better than I thought or maybe it did one of those 300 hour + changes. Way better than I thought. It's a tiny bit soft in the bass but very nice sound-stage. A tad forward in the mids but otherwise very even-handed. be sure to give this a long burn in!
will do! sounds interesting. look forward to listening. Right now Ive got an amalgamation of Wireworld & Blue Jean cable from pre to Superbam to Power. And a MAC Palladium on source. Im leaving the source and changing the other two.
So we will see.
Its not bad right now, some of the highs are tinselly, not really forward sounding or bright and even though theres lots of texture I think it could be smoothed/refined and extended in both directions. Soft bass worries me a tad.
Bass is not loose, but the Manleys are definitely not as buttoned up as the Nuforce, but definitely not quite mud. This is going to drive me nuts!
:)
M
Mike, don't forget to make yourself crazy with tube rolling. Wire nervosa can be multiplied many times if you add in tubes for another variable. Actually, just get you somedem Gold Lion EL84s from Jim McShane and be done, they are best current production el84 bar none. JJ makes the lowest distortion 12AT7 ever made, but it is only JJ quality so have a spare. I don't like vintage warm tubes.
Received these yesterday.... Now to be fair Ive had a tweeter issue with my Merlins.. Should be fixed in a couple days (i have to replace a resistor)(My Nuforce blew and took out the resistor.. but not the tweeter)
So in its place are Epos M5 plus Velodyne HGS-12 sub. Replacing Blue Jean Cable... the sound difference is obvious. Instruments sound more realistic, everything in the musical landscape is put together better. I cant really tell below say 60Hz... since the M5 dont go that low. Natural sound and I think they have quieted my system. But Im not positive since the M5s are less efficient and may be holding back the tube amp/ slight buzz.
More when I get the Merlins running again.
M
Hope you like them.
Bought 1 more meter for my source!!!!
M
I guess you do like them! :thumb:
I do. I noticed an immediate difference.. improvement over the Blue Jean cable. But thats not hard to do I suppose... hehe.
M
OK.. I did a little listening on the Merlins, since I fixed them and it seems to me that the Grover SX have done a good job with sibilance. Anyone confirm or deny?
M
They do reliably reveal more HF info than most other relatively inexpensive wires.
Finally opening up a bit! They seem well balanced, in the beginning favoring the top end a bit. Its difficult to say because I have a lot of changes going on. A few PCs have been inserted. One making the presentation very forward. Took this PC out in favor of 14ga Western Electric with Rhodium on my Preamp. Sounding pretty natural now, everything in balance. Sound clarity is Very good, beyond what Ive ever had. Nothing is bright or edgy and Im getting nice dynamics too.
Give them 150 hours or more to settle in. (I have them as well).
Wow, talk about a difference in perception....when I first put the SX in I felt were very warm, favoring the low mid to bass range, and over time leveled off to quite an open neutral(with a slight warmish tone) and even tone. This is of course compared with his previous versions, the SC. .
I will eventually be sending in my other two SC.s for upgrade to SX...unless of course he comes out with another 'improved' version. :roll:
That is weird! Are you using tubes or solid state for amplification? So far I only have the Grovers running from preamp to SuperBam (Merlin VSM MX) then to Manley Mahi tube monoblocks. I should be getting another set this week which will run Bryston BDA-1 to Preamp.
What about Grovers speaker wire.. how does it compare with something like Reality sp cable or Kimber 8TC.
Not sure if anyone would know but wouldnt hurt to ask.
M
I have about 35 hours on the Grovers.
QuoteAre you using tubes or solid state for amplification?
Both. I go both ways :rofl:
I biamp: tubes up top/ SS on the bottom. @320Hz.
Our respective previous cable are different, so naturally we would hear things different things with the SX'es. Plus we have very different systems. :thumb:
Never tried the speaker cables...no help there.
I am hearing all sorts of new things with these cables. I think I can hear the angle at which Bob Weir is singing into the mic. I must be crazy!
Grover review in March "Affordable Audiophile." Is this the first official Grover cable review? I don't remember any previous.
http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2010-03.pdf
PDF page 10
I think it is. I've only seen customer reviews on his site.
Cool. reasonably priced. Patented have fun.
charles
Quote from: Deton Nation on March 25, 2010, 12:28:36 PM
I am hearing all sorts of new things with these cables. I think I can hear the angle at which Bob Weir is singing into the mic. I must be crazy!
Yup ! One tweak at a time :duh, How can you tell what is truly going on with adding PCs to the mix. :duh. :rofl:enjoy your cables
charles
I should spread the love out to the Western Electrics too then! No biggie. :thumb:
M
It's worth noting that you can twist his arm gently; 50$ for everytime he upgrades (you send him the old, he sends you the new) Given that he's determined to make better and better, this is an interesting path to follow. I've done this three times already. [-o<
Did you notice a difference between the SC and the SX?
Absolutely. From memory...the SX is smoother, more open, more extended. I didn't have the SC very long though, since Grover announced the SX after maybe a month, so I sent it back. I'm waiting (endlessly) for a power cable he made for me. He says he's inundated with work. More power to him.
Im waiting for 1m SX for my source. Hopefully this week. I bet That review in AA gave him a huge burst of work! I mentioned that he can use some of the money for strippers to entertain him while he builds cables. I wonder if he will take my advice :)
M
Ouch, that hurts my imagination. :duh
lol!!! :lol:
Quote from: Deton Nation on March 26, 2010, 12:16:11 PM
I mentioned that he can use some of the money for strippers to entertain him while he builds cables. I wonder if he will take my advice :)
:yay2: :yay2: :yay2:
Anyone notice any stridency or high end grit during the break in. I notice a leading edge breakup sound on male voices (texture of voice??). It could be the recording, not sure.
M
Quote from: Deton Nation on February 27, 2010, 03:56:29 PM
Wow $1199 a meter (Silkworm +). Its the price of a component. I guess cables are a component... heh.
I am putting the Grover SX on tubes so I will let you know. I love an organic sound though.. hopefully they dont come across analytical.
M
Hey Mike, have you ever heard a Grover power cord in your travels? I just bought a 2+year old Silkworm IC at Mike's Rave for $450 and while I have no regrets, I sure would have liked to have heard a Grover IC for less than 1/2 that price. While I love the ribbon construction and the aluminum/carbon nickel implementation, my highly dynamic system requires warmth, a Silkworm strength. I just bought a Mhdt Havana Dac for further warmth and I'm looking for an affordable power cord for it. Maybe a Grover pc? :?:
Cheers,
Robin
I would give the Pangea 9ga try. I put one one my Classe Twenty-five and found it added some warmth compared to the signal Cable PC I was using, No it's not a JPS cable, but that the heck, it was only $65! If you order it via Amazon instead of direct from Audio Advisor they even ship it for free,
http://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-9-Powercord-Meter/dp/B0030F3J96/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1269741015&sr=8-3-catcorr
And AA has a 30 return policy, so if it doesn't float your boat they will take it back and all it will cost you is the return shipping. My only warning is to order a cable a little longer than you think you will need because this cable requires a pretty big turning radius. Like I said it's not the best cable you can get, but it ius a heel of a lot for what you are paying.
The Pangea 9 may work well on some components but my experience with two different DACs says that's not the place for it. I felt the sound lost body and depth. When we tried in on Shane's G2G a few weeks ago, we could have sworn the volume had been turned down.
QuoteAfter the DAC comparison, we did the Pangea swap. I could have put it on the Butler amp if I moved the amp... the DAC was the easiest swap that required only a couple seconds to plug and unplug with the current power cord in use, a JPS Labs Digital AC. No, this was far from a scientific comparison. But it didn't take double blind testing to hear the impact of swapping the cords. The Pangea was god awful and just destroyed the music when inserted. None of us wanted to even bother listening or putting it in other situations after only a few minutes of listening to it. Out it came and the music came back to life.
Link.... http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2091.msg22067#msg22067
Well I couldn't imagine putting a stiff 9G power cord on a little 4 pound tube Dac to begin with. But I am intrigued with Grover's layered ribbon construction of copper, aluminum and silver with carbon nickel shielding. I've always been a ribbon fan and I sure wish I had read this thread before Topround's RAVE as I would have liked to pick Mike's brain about his newly acquired Grover IC's. A day late and a dollar short,, that's me in a nutshell. :lol:
Cheers,
Robin
Quote from: mdconnelly on March 27, 2010, 07:42:56 PM
The Pangea 9 may work well on some components but my experience with two different DACs says that's not the place for it. I felt the sound lost body and depth. When we tried in on Shane's G2G a few weeks ago, we could have sworn the volume had been turned down.
I remember reading that post and laughing, not because I didn't believe it, but rather because I have been there before with other cord and other pieces of equipment. More than once I have been in a situation with cable (both power and interconnect) where it sounded great in one situation and I recommended it glowingly to someone, only to have it crash and burn for them. I have even seen cables that sounded wonderful in one part of my own system and turned to crapola on another one of my own components. I personally have yet to try it on anything but the power amp, but one of the reasons I mentioned it was that there are several people up here who loved the Pangea 9 on a DAC, in fact better that the 14 ga version, which is what Pangea recommends for source components and preamps. Go figure. But the best thing about is is in addition to being cheap to own it is also cheap (and easy) to test out. The shipping to you is free so if it doesn't work out you can return is and only be out a few bucks for the return shipping. It may suck in the application that you need it for and then again it just may do enough of what you are looking for to keep you happy (at least until the Nervosa kicks in again. :shock:)
Quote from: satfrat on March 27, 2010, 07:57:01 PM
Well I couldn't imagine putting a stiff 9G power cord on a little 4 pound tube Dac to begin with.
No doubt it does seem a bit weird, but it certainly wouldn't be the strangest thing any of us have done to our systems. (Schumann resonators, Mpingo dots, Tice clocks, cable elevators just to name a few.)
Hey; it's only bizarre if it doesn't work. :thumb: (How's that for self justification? :lol:)
Hea I hear ya,,,, I've been burnt on recommending stuff too, you just never know what will work til you try it out for yourself. But in this case, my little Dac will be on the 4th shelf of a 5 shelf 6' rack and the last thing I need is an inflexible heavy power cord pulling the Dac off the shelf, regardless of how well it works. But thanks for the recommendation. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I hear you. In the right situation the Pangea does a lot of nice things. But one thing it does not do well in any situation is bend. 90 degree turns on a high shelf would be a tough one. (My power amp weighs in the area of 80 lbs, so no matter how much the PC pulls on it, it's not going anywhere. :roll:)
Good luck finding something that works for you. (Heck, the chase is half the fun anyway.)
Quote from: Deton Nation on March 27, 2010, 03:44:49 PM
Anyone notice any stridency or high end grit during the break in. I notice a leading edge breakup sound on male voices (texture of voice??). It could be the recording, not sure.
M
Yes, this too will pass.
I'm not sure about the break-in requirements of the Grover's.. I just put them in and let them run for 200 hours.. I didn't notice as many changes as others have. I liked (and still have) a pair of SX or was it SCX.. or SX.C.1x Graphite/Whites w/ black connectors ;) just kidding.. Of all the versions, I still like the 'white/white' and SX (non aluminum) the best. To me the 'white/white' is my all time favorite. I think Grover tries too hard to please everyone's ear and system requirements rather than focusing on good sound, which is what I think the white/white does. It's not perfect for everyone in every situation.
As to power cords.. The 1 pc I tried from Grover was a 'first effort' and was not good. I'm hoping he has revised the design.
Part of me wishes Grover would put a stick in the mud and offer a set variety of cable types/sounds and revise them once every 6 months. But I know that won't happen. I think he thinks there is one perfect cable for every situation and every revision needs to be available immediately. I've found the opposite to be true.. It takes me a few months to get used to a sound and evaluate it. If the cable is constantly changing it's annoying... and feeds into the anything different is better mentality...
On the other hand, Grover is a hobbyist first and an artist that shares his work at a reasonable cost. So, it's nice that we get to try these cables and see how it goes.
-C
I definitely agree that it takes at least 3 months to truly know the signature of a component. Its difficult to stay contained in the beginning. I guess its that magical dream response that its perfect but nothing ever is, and thats ok! lol.
The edge is gone. Maybe it was the time of day, mood, power company or cables breaking in.
Nice! Listening to some Ultravox. A very neutral cable! VERY! wee ooo weeooo Neutral!
Received the Grovers for my source today! Will take a while to break in though.
The original Grovers did take a long time, a month and a half of playing and really smoothed out with great balance and sparkle with nice mid weight and detail. Really a nice cable!
Mike
Glad to hear it. They have changed a lot in the last year so I'm glad he has found a new good recipe.
Interseting. How do the Grovers compare to the JPS SC3 ICs ? Anyone with experience ?
charles
Quote from: rollo on April 13, 2010, 06:43:52 AM
Interseting. How do the Grovers compare to the JPS SC3 ICs ? Anyone with experience ?
charles
For me, the JPS SC3 balanced XLR ICs have shown exceptional synergy between my amp and preamp. Prior to that, I was using the older Grover SCdot ICs. While Grover's ICs have proven to work well, particularly for the price, I definitely find the SC3 to work better (in my system, to my ears, etc...). I have not compared Grover's latest ICs with the SC3.
I heard Mike's grover this past weekend. Very nice - extended, balanced, transparent, etc. All the good things.
I have a power chord made for me by Grover, but I haven't found a suitable plug for it here. Also the latest version of the SX, burning in.
What brand terminations does he use for his PCs?
I don't know! I ordered unterminated so I could solder directly to the board. I found some places here selling Shuko plugs but in the end I "discovered" someone selling one from a diy job. Looks good enough for me. The way Grover terminated the cable for me simply didn't fit the standard off-the shelf plugs and I didn't want to compromise his work by mangeling it so I hope an "audiophile" type plug will work.
Shep check out "Jet" from Japan. Sorry no link. Goggle time.
charles
I ordered a Shoko plug from a guy in France. Looked good and not expensive. I'm going to have the other end done professionaly when it goes to UK. It's too stiff for me :shock: