Fozgometer - Wow!

[Triode Pete]

"or set-up my digital Fluke to do the same thing"

How would that work?

Need to make RCA leads that fit into my Fluke AC meter (measuring AC mV). Hook up RCA test leads to the turntable RCA outputs. With a test record, get both right mono & left mono channels to give the same (equal) output by adjusting azimuth. Output readings should be the same, balanced readings for both channels...

[rollo]

  Or just buy a Linn LP12 and never need to adjust a thing except your wallet
   Yes siree Bob you can for about $14,000 have a new Linn LP12, arm and Linn cart.
   Perfect sound forever  . Ivor loves you.



charles
SMA

[topround]

Sorry to be against the grain, but in terms of high end tables Linn ranks pretty low, and they sound it too.
No offense Charles I know you have a Linn, but if you ever heard a bigger table in your system you would be floored.
My old Thorens 125 was better than the Linn

Linn suffers from a rather rabid fan base, and that really limits them, as all of those ball hugger fanboy fanbases, from knowing what really could be achieved.

I never understood why people became so Linn gaga, in comparison to other tables they are nothing really

The Kuzma will kill the Linn without even trying. Kuzma is still in the dark, still a sort of unkown, but that may change as more and more people experiment with vinyl.

[tmazz]

"or set-up my digital Fluke to do the same thing"

How would that work?

Need to make RCA leads that fit into my Fluke AC meter (measuring AC mV). Hook up RCA test leads to the turntable RCA outputs. With a test record, get both right mono & left mono channels to give the same (equal) output by adjusting azimuth. Output readings should be the same, balanced readings for both channels...

Digital Multimeters have gotten so cheap that you can probably get two of them (one for each channel) and some wires and connectors to make RCA input interfaces for about 1/5 of what you would pay for a Fozgometer.

[Triode Pete]

No offense Charles I know you have a Linn, but if you ever heard a bigger table in your system you would be floored.

Sir Charles - put that Linn on the SMA website & buy my Well Tempered Classic, which served me extremely well... I'll even set it up for you & show you the importance of azimuth adjustment, something your current Scottish table can't do... 

I also have 2 WT platters with it, a heavy damped platter & original acrylic platter, 2 hold down screw clamps & throw in a Bren1 record clamp as well...

C'mon, it'll be a party!

[BobM]

... I'll even set it up for you & show you the importance of azimuth adjustment, something your current Scottish table can't do... 

... or VTA

[rollo]

  Thats the beauty of a Linn. Already done right for ya. That is if using a Linn cart. No need to adjust a thing. Perfect sound forever. Didn't someone named Sony say that ??
  Tweek  and adjust away my dear chickadees Men I'll just sit back and get the toe tapping going. Now you wouldn't want me to bring the Linn over and make your Nervosa come out do ya ??? I'm Lingoed, Trampolined and Archived and yet to be Keeled or is that killed with the upgrade costs.  My only complaint.
   Maybe we should conduct a TT shootout. If anything we will learn a thing or two. Only issue is cart loading. The Arkiv at .15mv needs some gain. Bob you have a TT ??


charles
SMA
 

[BobM]

    Maybe we should conduct a TT shootout. If anything we will learn a thing or two.  

Only problem with that is all the transportation and setup, since TT's are so finicky it is hard to optomize them at someone elses house. I think Mike (Topround) was going to do something like that with all the goodies at his disposal.

[topround]

Charles, You are trying to soup up a VW when you need a Ferrari.

Save your money, sell the Linn and get the Kuzma, don't get sucked into the Linn money spending gig.
Naim does the same thing always putting a carrot in front of you.
Just get a great table and be done, the Linn was great in like 1978!  Get a Kuzma arm and a good cart and be done.
Please understand no offense is being attempted here, just trying to say you could do better and save money.
That little Stogi table with a Stogi or Stogi Reference arm will blow you away, and everything is adjustable so you can nail the geometry!

[toobluvr]

 
   Maybe we should conduct a TT shootout. If anything we will learn a thing or two.


charles
SMA
 

Been there, done that!

Recently, we directly compared my TT with a local buddy's.  Same system (his), same everything, including cartridge.  He had a full blown Linn, every conceivable upgrade.  I have a Townshend Rock Mk3.  The Linn was obviously inferior to us both.  So much so that a week later he asked me to bring the Rock around again to confirm things.  Same results.

Within a month, my buddy had a used Rock 3, better sound, and an extra $1000 in his pocket.  Yep, I guess he learned something alright!

     

John

[toobluvr]

Wow, getting goosebumps right now from setting the azimuth correctly! Looking at the cartridge, you'd never think it was set-up correctly but it is... imaging, channel separation, PRAT is great...

Thanks, John!

Pete

Hiya Pete.....

Your rig was singing beautifully when I left on Sat.  I enjoyed it very much!

Never underestimate the value of a good Fozgo session!     

I have now Fozgoed 6, maybe 8, cartridges.  Every single one needed to be twisted one way or another.  In other words, a neutral tonearm was incorrect for azimuth.  This means that most carts are not built properly - even new ones -- and will therefore not give full potential unless properly adjusted for azimuth.

After this experience, and hearing the profound effect of properly dialed azimuth on SQ, I would NEVER own an arm where azimuth adjustment is not possible.

John

[StereoNut]

Hiya Pete ...Your rig was singing beautifully when I left on Sat.  I enjoyed it very much! ... John

+1

I took the liberty to edit Johns comments down to save space, but I totally agree that Pete's new TT set-up sounded great!

SN

P.S. to Pete: Coming over to your place for a listen is a "love/hate" kinda thing... I love what your system sounds like and then hate going home to listen to mine!

[rollo]

   Boys boys Linnies are Linnies which I am not. I do not believe in the upgrade path. The only big difference was installing the Lingo power supply. My total investment was $2000. Bought it used. We never had a different TT in the house. Used a Micro benz M2 wood body and Linn Arkiv.
   Is the Linn better NO it is different just like anything we inject in our systems. It offers a neutral presentation which allowed me to flavor the game to my taste with different cartridges.
   I have been thinking of retiring the Linn and buying a Kuzma. Before I do though an audition of the Well Tempered may be a good idea.
   A mini meeting is in order.


charles
SMA

[tmazz]

This means that most carts are not built properly - even new ones...

I don't think that it is a matter of cartridges not being built "properly". We have to keep in mind that what we are trying to align is is not the cartridge but actually the stylus itself. We typically us the body as a guide because it is easy to deal with visually and can get us close, but a visually aligned body is not the final answer. For the best results final optimizations must be done by ear or at least using some electrical measurements tweak out that last bit of performance. First off the final adjustments are very small such that any tiny changes in stylus position relative to the body  becomes very significant. And while manufacturing to that kind of tolerance is extreme difficult (and expensive) there is also another factor at work, break in.  At cartridge is a complex system of moving parts held together by a suspension system. No matter how well put together it is in the factory that suspension is going to move and shift with age and use. Different shifts in that suspension will require different body alignments even between identical model cartridges. This is why I will never do a final dial-in on a cartridge set-up until it has at least 100 hours of run time on it.

I guess the bottom line is that you are setting the azimuth of the  of the stylus, not the cartridge body  nor the tone arm, so how the physically look as actually irrelevant.

[toobluvr]

This means that most carts are not built properly - even new ones...

I don't think that it is a matter of cartridges not being built "properly". We have to keep in mind that what we are trying to align is is not the cartridge but actually the stylus itself. We typically us the body as a guide because it is easy to deal with visually and can get us close, but a visually aligned body is not the final answer. For the best results final optimizations must be done by ear or at least using some electrical measurements tweak out that last bit of performance. First off the final adjustments are very small such that any tiny changes in stylus position relative to the body  becomes very significant. And while manufacturing to that kind of tolerance is extreme difficult (and expensive) there is also another factor at work, break in.  At cartridge is a complex system of moving parts held together by a suspension system. No matter how well put together it is in the factory that suspension is going to move and shift with age and use. Different shifts in that suspension will require different body alignments even between identical model cartridges. This is why I will never do a final dial-in on a cartridge set-up until it has at least 100 hours of run time on it.

I guess the bottom line is that you are setting the azimuth of the  of the stylus, not the cartridge body  nor the tone arm, so how the physically look as actually irrelevant.

Let me clarify....

With azimuth we are trying to achieve perfect verticality of the stylus in the groove when viewed head-on.  I don't know how anyone would use the cart body to achieve this, as you suggest.  I think you are referring to the practise of using the cart body when adjusting the null points.  This is an erroneous approach.  One should view the cantilever (not cart body) and align it with protractor lines.  Reason?  Because the cantilever is often not perfect in the cart body, therefore the cart body is not a good proxy when setting null points.

I stand by my statement that if a new cart is built right, then a "neutral" arm position (ie: no twisting) will yield perfect azimuth. I have yet to encounter this in all the Fozgo setups I have done, so I conclude there is some imprecision in the building of the carts.

There are two possible explanations for imprecise azimuth with a new cart, and both have to do with the cart mfr process:

(1)  the stylus is not attached perfectly to the cantilever

or

(2)  the cantilever is not installed properly into the cart body

And good luck trying to set azimuth by ear.  IMO that is impossible.