What are your goals from a high end system?

[gopher]

I'm not asking for your sonic priorities, but whats the end product you're looking for?

Recreation of a live experience?  Uber resolution that lets you dissect your music? 

The reason I ask is I'm listening to a bunch of new gear I'm putting together basically doing a complete system overhaul and I've got a little Redgum integrated driving my VR-33 speakers and for the second time this company (Redgum) has made me pause and question what the heck it is I'm doing in this hobby. 

This little $450 used integrated does tone well, soundstage, attack, decay, speed and just sheer musicality.  I can seek more tonal colors and a rounder presentation--maybe a little more palpability with higher end gear, but will I enjoy listening more?  If you hit a theoretical musicality threshold is there a point to keep chasing sonic improvement?

This is largely rhetorical as my obsessive nature may not let me stop, but something it is worth thinking about.

[tmazz]

My highest goal is to be able to make an emotional connection with the music. Towards that end what I want most to hear out of my system is to not hear the system. I think that \Rich summed it up best in the "End of the Day" thread (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3626.0) when he said he was looking to remove sonic distractions from his system. If something in the sound attracts my attention, that is just more time that I am spending listening to the sound instead of the music.

Forget detail and soundstage, what I am really looking for is goosebumps and foot taps.. 

[Carlman]

I think Rich's way of describing it is the best I've ever heard.  I can also say that being able to listen without minor system-created distractions can also come from getting used to what you have. 

I used to get mired in tweaking and forget to just live with it for a while to really enjoy it.  Speaker positioning is so important also.  Making the MOST of what I have and living with it for a while has helped me really understand what I'm getting/hearing.... Then I add one change at a time... slowly.  I didn't have that patience when I started in this hobby.  But I was excited and was amazed at how far things could go... I miss that excitement... whatchagonnado?

-C

[tmazz]

........  But I was excited and was amazed at how far things could go... I miss that excitement... whatchagonnado?

I know what you mean, but I have rechanneled that excitement into music itself. Hanging out here and more specifically in the "What are you listening to right now?" thread has exposed me to all kinds of new musical experiences. With the help of the guys over there I have discovered great artists, labels and music types and styles that I had been seeing in stores but looking right past for years. Add to that some new avenues to get access to a wide variety of music at very reasonable (or no) cost, like some new online library databases that allow me to search and request interloans from hundreds if not thousands of libraries, the ease of finding used LPs & CDs on Amazon and of course the opening of a huge thrift shop in my neighborhood (A.K.A. "The Crack House") that has a constant stream of vintage records and CDs flowing through is for around a buck a piece.

So for me the quest to broaden my musical knowledge, appreciation , and of course collection, has replaced the excitement of perfecting the SQ of my system. Not that I completely ignore the equipment side of the equation, I have made a number of hardware moves in the past few years, but they were more because deals presented themselves that were just too good to walk away from. The current economic downturn has put some opportunities out there in used equipment that with a little bit of cash in hand have allowed me to obtain a level of equipment that I never would have dreamed possible for me to own 10 years ago. And it is kind of ironic, I have bought more equipment in the past three  or four years when I wasn't focused on hardware nor looking to do any upgrades that I did back when I started in the hobby as a hardcore gearhead.    But the difference is that lately I haven't been looking to do upgrade, rather just reacting to opportunities to pick up things at stupidly low prices. And it is really kind of a paradox, while I was buying more gear, I really cared about the gear less and less. I got to a point where the hardware was really more of a means to an end than a quest in and of itself. While I did change out a lot of gear recently I still could have been very happy living with just what I had. For example I recently had to send my ARC VT_200 in for repair and while it was gone I pressed my Classe 25 back into service. And while the Classe did not have the magic of the ARC tube amp I was still taken back over the time it was in service of how good it actually was. Had the deal on the VT-200 not dropped in my lap I could live very happily with the Classe (and without the headaches of maintaining a high power tube amp  - but nothing for nothing)

Bottom line is that in focusing mainly on musical issues while just watching the hardware end out of the corner of my eye I have gotten to feel the most "comfortable" in this hobby that I have in the 30+ years I have been involved in it. It is a good place to be. 

[jsaliga]

Great post Tom.  I feel much the same way.

--Jerome 

[gopher]

Interesting posts, guys.

I grew up with an audio obsessed father, exposure to which largely pulled me into this hobby.  I was sent off to college with a pair of Magnepan MMGs which my dad saved for me for years, Marantz integrated we bought on eBay and a Pioneer dvd player.

For me my goals in the hobby have evolved over time.  It started out very immaturely, compulsively upgrading and expecting a zen like experience which never came.  While a student with 0 income, I played the audiogon game, buying and selling things to fund upgrades and experience new gear--always increasing my 'audio equity'.

I'm older now, but still one of the younger guys here (late 20s) and I recognize a lot of the misguided hype I followed over the years and my innapropriate focus on gear over tunes--this largely changed when I had a few friends introducing me to new music and dragging me out to live shows, but old habits do die hard. 

I surf audiogon/the forums daily and pretty much act on instinct when it comes to steals on gear.. not just for an upgrade, but forward looking to fund an upgrade or two down the road. 

My patience also isn't what it should be, though I do recognize it as a problem.  I recognize I should be changing a variable at a time and living with it/understanding it, but I find this tremendously difficult and am often introducing a few things at a time.

Anyway--the point of this thread was that I'm borrowing Spellys RGi35 integrated right now and its giving me pause and making me ask 'what the hell am I doing?'

This little solid state, cool running integrated presents music with shockingly good fidelity and musicality for the dollar and, while I can plainly see the areas that can be improved, I don't know that they'd necessarily improve my ENJOYMENT.

is my goal the faithful quest for the accurate reproduction of sound--making my system sound like a concert did, or is it getting it to a point where I can sit back and be transported by the music...

The smart move for me right now is selling off separates, buying this inexpensive integrated and a VG moving coil phono, ignoring the little stuff and moving forward with what matters---the actuality of the fact is that even as i type I have a new separate amplifier on its way to me...

[rollo]

  When first exposed to a so called highend system at Stereo Exchange my world changed.
   Out of curiosity walked into the store to look around. Never read about or knew about anything other than a receiver [ Sony] and a TT. No CD at the time. Yes I'm an old fart.
    I was floored. The music just sounded real to me. Was so enamored by what I heard and the journey began.
    Bought a subscription to the Absolute sound and was in hook line and sinker. The hype, insecurity of a beginner with zero knowledge and the desire for the "best" began. SS, tubed, hybrid , panel speakers, box speakers, what to do ?
    So what now after 40 years of fooling around with gear. What now is important to me ? Eliminating every Hi fi artifact to allow me to get deeper into the music. PRAT is important and makes the toe tap. No specific part of the frequency range is exaggerated. Bass needs to extended below 20 HZ.
     At this time in my life after hearing about all there is to hear [ almost] my goal is to simplify the system. NOS tubes are getting rarer and more expensive as we speak. High maintenance.
   Lets face it we know now that a well put together system does not have to cost an arm and a leg. It boils down to the knowledge and experience of the listener. Not what your buddies think but what you think. Yes the Nervosa steps in with doubt but that is just plain old insecurity in ones choices.
   What sounds good to you just may not to others. Deal with it and stay strong in your convictions. Do not let the hype or nervosa take over. Easy to say hard to do. It is all about ones personality. Competitive ? Laid back ? Insecure ?
   My original goal being an Absolute Sound groupie at the time was the live event. That is impossible. Closer today than ever before but still to be had.  Our brain knows what live music sounds like. If we get some of those cues from our humble systems our brain will react to it. Just like the unnatural sounds we hear. You just know. That beaming tweeter or a thin or bright presentation deflects that emotion. Fatigue. We all know it heard it and hopefully eliminated it. 
   Goosebumps happen more often now than ever before, a good thing. The music must want to make me sing along or dance. Without that it is all moot.
  The goal ? As I've stated here numerous times. Emotional impact. Getting deeper into the music. It has to draw you in and make you forget it is a reproduction.  Its just got to hit you in the heart. So loose your fear of: is the room right ? SS or tubes ? CD or vinyl ? Trust your ears cause at the end of the day that is all that matters.




charles
   
   
   

[bhobba]

For me its simple - tricking the brain so you can suspend belief and think - this is real.  Forget about distortion measurements etc etc - to me that's the real test.  My Trafomatic SET sounds divine but measures horrid.

Thanks
Bill

[AcidJazz]

Goals?
I have no goals, this is justa hobby that began back in my party days back in the 70's...if the system doesn't make yah wanna dance, it ain't worth shit.

[satfrat]

Simply to enjoy what I now have thru my senior years. Easy-peasy. 

Cheers,
Robin

[BobM]

I hope to invent some cheap piece of crap, pseudo-scientific thingie that I can then sell to you crazy people at an exhorbitant price (all AN members will get a significant discount though).

I've got a few prototypes. What do you guys think of these?

The Sound Medallion. When you wear it, it aligns your shakra with your feng shui. Made from exotic hardwoods only found in the rainforest and aquired and constructed by imported tea picking monkeys, so untouched by human hands.


Of course we will offer a feng shui alignment service that can be accessed by simply calling into a $9/minute "866" number. We will align your home over the phone, or you can subscribe to our in-home service for a more in-depth analysis and critique.


And of course, for the true afficianado, the Fen Shui Toolbox.


We also will provide more holistic services for those into a Zen-Shui approach.


Please call 1-866-sham-wow for further information. If you call now you will only be billed $4.99/minute which is fully applied against your first purchase.

Thanks for your attention, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[jsaliga]

Bob,

I think that's already been done...



--Jerome

[eleazar]

I hope to invent some cheap piece of crap, pseudo-scientific thingie that I can then sell to you crazy people at an exhorbitant price (all AN members will get a significant discount though).

I've got a few prototypes. What do you guys think of these?

The Sound Medallion. When you wear it, it aligns your shakra with your feng shui. Made from exotic hardwoods only found in the rainforest and aquired and constructed by imported tea picking monkeys, so untouched by human hands.


Of course we will offer a feng shui alignment service that can be accessed by simply calling into a $9/minute "866" number. We will align your home over the phone, or you can subscribe to our in-home service for a more in-depth analysis and critique.


And of course, for the true afficianado, the Fen Shui Toolbox.


We also will provide more holistic services for those into a Zen-Shui approach.


Please call 1-866-sham-wow for further information. If you call now you will only be billed $4.99/minute which is fully applied against your first purchase.

Thanks for your attention, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I don't post off the Album Reviews much but I had to this time
Bob that was great "I'm glad I'll get a steep discount" 

[JLM]

Approaching retirement I'm probably done catching audio epiphanies, but the first was a "real" vs "hifi" sound revelation.  Real included life-like imaging, no exagerations, and no sounding artificial.

Nowadays I avoid over-hype ("excessive" detail, oversized imaging), sins of comission (added "effects"), and gear that renders much of my favorite music (poorly recorded) as unlistenable ("overly precise").

[steve]

For me it is to get as close to live instruments and voices as possible. For that to happen I sometimes play a live instrument for comparison, or at least attend a live event

One aspect personally turns me off is an orchestra playing on the same plane as the conductor.

Cheers.