NCore Amp

[AcidJazz]

They are modules available to end users for diy and to oem's.

Correction: NC400 modules are for DIYers, NC1200 modules are for the OEM market only. 

And yes, depending on the build+parts used one can get different sounds.

[mgalusha]

Forgive my ignorance as chip amps are not my cup of tea, so I really have not been paying attention, but aren't the Ncores kits?

FWIW, they are not chip amps, the NC400 DIY modules are fully discrete, no op-amps and MOSFET output devices. They are awfully small tho.

[bhobba]

Ncores replaced Spectron in my system....so I wouldn't make any absolute statements.

Yea a number of people have said they preferred the Ncores to the Spectrons - but that's not what we heard.

Thanks
Bill

[rollo]

 Curious myself as to their character. I have a preconceived notion that the neutrality of this Amp is lean in character and very detailed.
   However I am one of those Guys who insists on hands on experience before commenting on a component. Hence my curiosity.
   Mike owning the Cyber 211s at one time how does the N-Core compare in sonics ??


charles

[bhobba]

Hi Charles

I would not describe it as lean - it is extremely neutral all right - what I have heard is a slight hardness and a funny presentation when fed into a Modright pre amp - much much better without it.

I will try and do a direct comparison to some Mac 501's today and see how that goes.  Trouble is I would like to check it out with the best DAC I own - my Bybeed up PDX - but that does not have balanced out.  I can rig it through my Qol completion stage but am waiting on some new decent cables I am having built before putting that permanently into my system.  I am picking up the new cables today and will see if I can try it that way.

Thanks
Bill

[mgalusha]

   Mike owning the Cyber 211s at one time how does the N-Core compare in sonics ??

Charles, they are very different animals. In my mind the Cyber 211 (and it's 845 brother) add some very pleasant harmonics, almost entirely 2nd harmonic. The NCore amps don't seem to add anything and any harmonics they do add are more than 100dB down from the signal, so they are seemingly pretty neutral.

I bought my pair without hearing them and like you I was afraid they would be lean and sterile. They are not intrinsically sterile but they don't add any warmth either, which most tube amps do, particularly SET's, at least in my view and from what I've heard. Don't get me wrong, I have owned my share of tube amps and in fact there are still a couple in my basement. I hooked up the Aranov 960 a couple of weeks ago while trying some speakers I picked up for my neighbor, we both loved the sound with the tube amp, it matched well with the speakers. Technically as accurate, almost certainly not, enjoyable, damn right.

The NC400's are warmer in my system than the Atma-Sphere M60's were and of course have effectively unlimited power with my 95dB sensitivity speakers.

IMO the Ncore amps claim to fame is reproducing a damn close facsimile of what they are fed, there is no question that won't make everyone happy or cause equal enjoyment. Like nearly everything else, it kind of comes down to what you value and what compromises you're willing to live with, all solutions have some, pick 'yer poison as they say. 

One thing that Bill mentioned that I have observed, if the source gear has any weaknesses, they will happily spit them out, I have very definitely had to look at the upstream bits.

mike

[bhobba]

One thing that Bill mentioned that I have observed, if the source gear has any weaknesses, they will happily spit them out, I have very definitely had to look at the upstream bits.

They are EXTREMELY transparent which is why I want to check them out with the best source gear I can get hold of.  I was unable to check them against the Mac 501's because the person concerned was very busy.  In a few days hopefully it can be done.  I no longer have the balanced cables so cant try them in my system but am hopeful in a few days it can really be checked out on a true reference system.

It may be the slight hardness we all heard is in the source gear but it was tried with 3 different DAC's and it was heard with all.

Thanks
Bill

[mgalusha]

They are EXTREMELY transparent which is why I want to check them out with the best source gear I can get hold of.  I was unable to check them against the Mac 501's because the person concerned was very busy.  In a few days hopefully it can be done.  I no longer have the balanced cables so cant try them in my system but am hopeful in a few days it can really be checked out on a true reference system.

It may be the slight hardness we all heard is in the source gear but it was tried with 3 different DAC's and it was heard with all.

I look forward to your thoughts. I ended up replacing my DAC, which I had been very happy with until the NCores showed up, it suddenly seemed a little too hard and strident. Then again, I've had tubes for so long that tendency may have been ameliorated, dunno but I ended up with one a little more analog sounding that I'm happy with for now (Lindemann 24/192).

mike

[cab]

Seems the new nad dac is being called extremely transparent, colorless, etc. Would seem to be an ideal match with the ncore.....

[bhobba]

Seems the new nad dac is being called extremely transparent, colorless, etc. Would seem to be an ideal match with the ncore.....

The new NAD DAC is good but my PDX is at another level - to my ears anyway.  The NAD was one of the DAC's tried and it had a slight trace of hardness with the NCores.  It still sounded awesome and the performance it achieves for the money is amazing.

Thanks
Bill

[cab]

what is the cost difference?

[rollo]

Thanks for the reply Mike. Got it now. Ah yes the revealing componet that requires another change. Meaning the quality of source. Reminds me of my CAT preamp. That sucker revealed all causing another upgrade. Was not happy about making another change but when I did there was no turning back. Good is good.
  Would like to compare them to the Arion HS500 some day. Anybody use the N-core with vinyl as the source ?


charles

[TomS]

...
Anybody use the N-core with vinyl as the source ?


charles

Charles,

I'm using the NCores almost 100% with vinyl and couldn't be happier with the setup 

Tom

[bhobba]

what is the cost difference?

My fully bybeed Level 2 PDX costs about $5K (compared to $1.5K for the NAD) depending on what you can source the bybees for so its hardly surprising it bests the NAD which I also own.  The other DAC I own is a Playback Designs MPD-3.  On PCM despite the fact it is more expensive than my PDX my PDX clobbers it.  On DSD its a lot closer and investigation needs yo be done as to which is better.  I need to get a new pair of decent cables to check that out since the PD needs a pre amp - you can't direct connect which is what I normally do.  They are on order but the guy that hand builds them is a little busy with other stuff right now.

Thanks
Bill

[Carlman]

Bill,
I was trying to follow your chain of events and not sure if I understood what was connected when...
Did all 3 DAC's go through the modwright when you were comparing?  I'm not a big fan of modwright gear, I've never heard a piece I thought was really transparent.

If the PDX has variable outs and you can plug them into the 501's and Ncores, I'd be very interested in that comparison.

-C

One thing that Bill mentioned that I have observed, if the source gear has any weaknesses, they will happily spit them out, I have very definitely had to look at the upstream bits.

They are EXTREMELY transparent which is why I want to check them out with the best source gear I can get hold of.  I was unable to check them against the Mac 501's because the person concerned was very busy.  In a few days hopefully it can be done.  I no longer have the balanced cables so cant try them in my system but am hopeful in a few days it can really be checked out on a true reference system.

It may be the slight hardness we all heard is in the source gear but it was tried with 3 different DAC's and it was heard with all.

Thanks
Bill