Doin the Class D thing

[BobM]

It is certainly getting better and, like most new things in audio land, it will need time to mature and become truly good. This is probably one of those rare times though when the affordability of the hardware is a key factor, so the mass market consumer will likely drive the development. Bottom up instead of top down.

[rollo]

Yeah, D is improving and will offer high quality amplification at lower prices eventually. For now, I don't think it can keep up with the best class A amps, tube or SS, but it's close and getting closer everyday.

One thing about D amps is it seems they require more tweaking to get the sound right and they react more strongly to changes in wiring, caps, etc...

Re that Leak amp above, Solen caps combined with Duelund...  Might try the Clarity TC caps there instead.

  Yes Sir try those Clarity TC with Duelund. Very good combo. Put the Duelund first.
   Not all class "D" amps are equal. Meaning the modules themselves. Off the shelf class "D" switching power supplies and power modules are not the good ones out there.
   The power supply is key. Arions power supplies are not off the shelf supplies. They are custom designed and manufactured by a Military manf. who specializes in Submarine power supplies. No B&O or Ncore modules here.
     The analog board as well is custom designed and choke regulated utilizing a 6H30 super tube for the input. With both low and high gain outputs available one can optimize the preamp synergy.
    In my experience class "D" needs some meat on the bone. I agree with Bill baker hybrid offers more in class "D". Great as designed with the ability to swap tubes.
    To date we love the Reflector DR 6H30 but the cryo Sovtek or EH are different and depends on what output cap one has installed. The stock version with a Cardas cap likes the cryo Sovtek and the Duelund likes the Reflector. You have options.
      Accuracy and presence with emotion are the hybrid class "D".


charles

[bhobba]

Yes Sir try those Clarity TC with Duelund. Very good combo. Put the Duelund first.

Got myself a Leak and it arrived a couple of days ago.

Contacted the local valve guru out our way - he posts as Stevenvalve on our forums here in Aus - who knows the valves for it backwards and got some Mullard EL34 and other stuff he thinks is the bees knees.

Next stop - upgrading resistors and caps and will keep that combo with Clarity Cap in mind - but am thinking of the Duelund Cast instead of VSF Copper.

Also, have been hearing good things about the latest Prima Luna valve amps.  Evidently it stood up to the Arions pretty well - the Arions were better, especially in the bass, but it was supposedly surprisingly good.  

Thanks
Bill

[ampdesigner333]

I've tried several D-amps and while they never really contended with SET amps on my top horns (too 'solid-state' for my taste), they are a great match with my bass horns. I used various D-amps up to 200 watts on the bins but settled on a pr of Gainclone monos pushing @50w. They sound relaxed yet detailed and allow the bins to run fairly flat down to 32Hz with a 6dB drop below 35Hz and 10dB below 30. What I really liked about the GC more so than 100-200w tubed and SS amps was their fast, tight and visceral bass - obvious even at the lower wattage. Another BIG bonus is that I can leave the amps on 24/7 and they use the same power as a flashlight bulb at idle and so they are always ready. The other tube/SS amps I tried would take up to 2-3 hours to warm up and I just don't have that much time to wait for the bass to tighten up.

I'm still open to trying Class D amps on the top horns but I just don't see the technology surpassing the sound offered by SETs anytime soon. I'm also interested in putting more power into the bass bins and finding another D-amp that is more powerful, relaxed, tight and visceral than the GC's seems more viable.

One word......  MARASCHINO.  If you haven't heard it, you don't know how good Class-D can do it ALL, like response down to DC and past 100kHz, near zero distortion, super low output impedance, and incredible speed.  It's pretty new, so there are only a few reviews so far.......

-Tommy O

[rollo]

Werd why not consider a class "D" for the bass and an SET for the mids and top ?
   SET sound and class "D" are just two different animals. SET sound in general offers an airey lush character and low power. Great but limited.  Class "D" on the other hand is not colored has awesome bass and a linear sound.
   With the option of a hybrid class "D" you can have some tube color and accuracy and slam to boot. Class "D" amps are accused of being thin and emotionless but accurate as hell. . No meat on the bone per say.
    There are exceptions you just need to try the different offerings out there. One size never fits all.


charles

[Response Audio]

There will always be controversy on new technologies for several years after being introduced.

I for one like the idea of Hybrid Class D and have personally been using this design for several years now. One of our Musica Bella products that is quickly becoming very popular is our Hybrid Class D Ibrido amplifier. It started out as many customers started using our stand alone Segue buffer in front of various Class D amps and we then combined the two into a single power amp configuration. I feel the hybrid design provides just the right balance.

As everyone knows I design for Purity as well, we will soon be releasing a new Class D Hybird amplifier that will grab passionate music lovers by the horns.

As Charles mentioned, "One size never fits all". This is true with anything and everything audio.

[sleepyguy24]

I gotta agree with mating Class D type amps with a tube front end. With a pair of Red Dragon M1000 monoblocks and a EE MiniMax Tube DAC being the source I found a sound in my system that I really enjoy. When I tried budget Class D amps in the past I didn't have any tubes in the system chain and I found the sound to be dull, cold and rather un-involving.

[Werd]

I've  got the mother lode of Class D in house atm. chapter 400s couplet




400 per side and 800 into 4ohms. Its so synthetic and not at all thin with my Acoutic zens. Got it on borrow.

[Werd]

Werd why not consider a class "D" for the bass and an SET for the mids and top ?
  SET sound and class "D" are just two different animals. SET sound in general offers an airey lush character and low power. Great but limited.  Class "D" on the other hand is not colored has awesome bass and a linear sound.
  With the option of a hybrid class "D" you can have some tube color and accuracy and slam to boot. Class "D" amps are accused of being thin and emotionless but accurate as hell. . No meat on the bone per say.
   There are exceptions you just need to try the different offerings out there. One size never fits all.


charles

Would have to reinvent my whole system and it seems like to much work.

[Nick B]

Werd...yep...too much work and then there's the $$$ as well. But if time and money were no object for me........ 

[Werd]

Werd...yep...too much work and then there's the $$$ as well. But if time and money were no object for me........ 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Holy Mother of boat anchors! That thing is massive. 

[DaveC]

Those are some big amps, Werd! 

I do agree with rollo's advise, class D and woofers go well together while using a class D amp full range is a lot more hit or miss. Class D amps are tweaky, meaning they respond too much to changes in minor things like vibration isolation, and cables can be a major factor in defining the sound of the system where with other amps the cables contribution is more like a smaller adjustment rather than a huge, major change.

But I also agree with "too much work" as an active biamp system is not everyone's cup of tea.

I am working on a modular speaker system that will be available either with a simple, 1st order passive crossover and I also plan on offering an active solution where the best amp for the job will be used, and it will have a combination of class D on the woofers (<800 Hz) and a SET amp for the high frequency drivers. The SET amp will use the interstage coupling RC filter as the crossover, so there will be nothing extra added to the signal path to achieve a 1st order line-level high pass filter.

[Werd]

Holy Mother of boat anchors! That thing is massive. 

No kidding, its heavy as it is big at over 100lbs. Me being a librarian (check my profile pic on left) took a big lift that hurt all day.

[Werd]

This Amp thingy is a seriousily good amp. You are not going to say its studio neutral. Its not anywhere near that. We can leave those claims for class A or even more A/B. Its in a class of its own description. This is  Hi Fi driven pure signal class D driven output. Its what an over designed Home theatre receiver can only dream of. Its so alluring and synthetic. Pure Hifi at its best. Imagine no distortion resolution with noiseless air and background.

I've heard 240 watt Devaliet and it sounds solid state. This is different in the weight of every delivered instrument of sound. Whether its filler or upfront guitar its gives you a strong synthethetic rendition of its sound.
Fuck its beautiful and fuck that neutral studio bulllshit. I want this.