Genalex E88cc vs JJ E88cc

steve · January 29, 2014, 05:35:32 PM

Been doing some testing, tweeking and the JJs just seem better, more natural and accurate than the Genalex in a preamplifier/amplifier settings.

The Genalex have higher orders of distortion, regardless of loadline, resulting in a bright top end, too "edgy", even with varying plate load lines. Maybe compensate some with "dark" sounding caps, or for full sounding systems? The Genalex E88cc is quieter VS JJ though.

For 50 bucks each, I was disappointed.

Anyone else audition the Genalex E88cc?

Cheers

Response Audio · January 29, 2014, 09:48:36 PM

Hey Steve,
Have you swapped out the JJs with a new/different pair? As mentioned in my other thread, the quiet ones are dead quiet. I havent played with the Genalex. My favorite pair so far are some Seimens ECC88s I have. I think tney were about $15 ea when i picked them up. These are what i run in my personal buffer stage. Dead quiet too.

With the JJs, I am still amazed by the sound of this very inexpensive tube. The Gold pin E802s are outstanding.

rollo · January 30, 2014, 08:49:33 AM

Tried both. JJ when not noisey close to Siemens. Meaning neutral. My favorite is a stock Sovtek with Cryo treatment. Or EH Cryo gold pin. The gold pin a tad warmer.
Same for 6H30 cryo Sovtek over Reflector NOS 6H30. Cyro seems to make the average tube more open with less noise.
For my personal use Amperex pinch waist. Rare but IMO worth every penny. Hard to find. Second choice Telefunken. Third Cryo Sovtek.

charles

steve · January 30, 2014, 07:28:28 PM

Quote from: Response Audio on January 29, 2014, 09:48:36 PM
Hey Steve,
Have you swapped out the JJs with a new/different pair? As mentioned in my other thread, the quiet ones are dead quiet. I havent played with the Genalex. My favorite pair so far are some Seimens ECC88s I have. I think tney were about $15 ea when i picked them up. These are what i run in my personal buffer stage. Dead quiet too.

With the JJs, I am still amazed by the sound of this very inexpensive tube. The Gold pin E802s are outstanding.

Hi Bill,

The JJ E88ccs have always been my favorites after lots of testing. They last long, sound perfect, but always had a little more noise than the Bugleboys and Tesla. (JJ did have a problem some years ago with cathode poisoning, but rectified the problem of course.) Customers have reported approx. 28,000 hours with them.

About two weeks ago, I contacted JJ and asked if they would come out with a quieter tube, like the Tesla and Amperex, "we would pay more". I wanted to use some in a personal test phono stage. The response from JJ was "no".

I agree with you, the JJs are incredible, working absolutely perfectly.

Cheers

Steve Sammet
SAS Audio Labs

topround · January 31, 2014, 02:46:50 AM

Steve,
you should send a preamp around for a tour, try to generate some interest.

Mike

Response Audio · January 31, 2014, 07:15:47 AM

QuoteThe response from JJ was "no".

Thats an interesting response from a manufacturer. Basically they are telling us "we manufacture problematic tubes and we know it, deal with it".

I will continue to use the E88CC in our buffer as our customers have been very happy with this tube. It's a good quality, good sounding affordable tube.

Considering their response, I guess there is no future for the 12AU7's unless we want to bring in a couple dozen and weed out the bad ones. Who has time for that.

NOS tubes are tricky. We all have different preferences and it's difficult when customers ask for a recommendation. We can only tell them what we like and prefer. Given the price of some NOS tubes, I usually tell people to do some research on their own as I don't want to be responsible for an expensive recommendation that someone does not like.

steve · January 31, 2014, 12:25:27 PM

Quote from: Response Audio on January 31, 2014, 07:15:47 AM

QuoteThe response from JJ was "no".

Thats an interesting response from a manufacturer. Basically they are telling us "we manufacture problematic tubes and we know it, deal with it".

I will continue to use the E88CC in our buffer as our customers have been very happy with this tube. It's a good quality, good sounding affordable tube.

Basically, the increased noise is caused by impurities in the cathode sleeve itself. Not serious, but causes more noise in the phono stage.

Cheers.

rollo · February 01, 2014, 08:02:18 AM

Well thanks to you Guys I revisited the JJ in my preamp. Have to say they do sound VG. Now I'm wondering about Cryo treatment of such.
Lucky for me this pair not noisy. Installed Herbie's tube dampers and even better yet.
Thanks for reminding me about JJ.

charles

steve · February 01, 2014, 10:37:08 AM

Quote from: rollo on February 01, 2014, 08:02:18 AM
Well thanks to you Guys I revisited the JJ in my preamp. Have to say they do sound VG. Now I'm wondering about Cryo treatment of such.
Lucky for me this pair not noisy. Installed Herbie's tube dampers and even better yet.
Thanks for reminding me about JJ.

charles

Your welcome Charles.

I think, for the publics sake to know, that with proper design, implimentation, parts, and with final tweeking, the JJs beat the Siemens, Bugleboys, etc. I couldn't believe it, but it is true.

In every area, transparency, inner detail, dynamics, soundstage, the JJs were perfect. No syrupy, no etch or other deviation. I don't know how one beats that, maybe matches it?

Cheers

Triode Pete · February 01, 2014, 02:00:14 PM

Quote from: steve on February 01, 2014, 10:37:08 AM
Quote from: rollo on February 01, 2014, 08:02:18 AM
Well thanks to you Guys I revisited the JJ in my preamp. Have to say they do sound VG. Now I'm wondering about Cryo treatment of such.
Lucky for me this pair not noisy. Installed Herbie's tube dampers and even better yet.
Thanks for reminding me about JJ.

charles

Your welcome Charles.

I think, for the publics sake to know, that with proper design, implimentation, parts, and with final tweeking, the JJs beat the Siemens, Bugleboys, etc. I couldn't believe it, but it is true.

In every area, transparency, inner detail, dynamics, soundstage, the JJs were perfect. No syrupy, no etch or other deviation. I don't know how one beats that, maybe matches it?

Cheers

Based upon my experience, the Russian Voshkod Factory "Rocket Logo" 6DJ8 variants (6N23P) are absolutely killer, especially when "cryo'd"... Rivals the best of "them"...

My $0.02,
Pete

richidoo · February 01, 2014, 02:03:39 PM

Stuart Yaniger, (SY on diyaudio.com) wrote years ago about a study he did measuring distortion on all kinds of 12AT7 tubes. He found the JJs to be the lowest distortion of all, including some precious NOS tubes. So I am not surprised that the JJs 6922s sound good too.

I remember hearing it in SAS11 preamp years ago. That left a mark on me! But I think that pre would still sound great even with Sovteks.

rollo · February 02, 2014, 07:40:29 AM

Actually looking for some 12AT7s for my General Radio power supplies. Using EH now, loved the Tele but one failed. The RCA was a bit dark.
Steve you mentioned tweaking without giving away the farm tweak what Caps ? resistors, both ?

charles

steve · February 02, 2014, 11:10:35 AM

Quote from: rollo on February 02, 2014, 07:40:29 AM
Actually looking for some 12AT7s for my General Radio power supplies. Using EH now, loved the Tele but one failed. The RCA was a bit dark.
Steve you mentioned tweaking without giving away the farm tweak what Caps ? resistors, both ?

charles

Mainly coupling capacitors, but also power supply caps, and resistors some as well.

steve · August 11, 2014, 11:01:39 AM

Quote from: richidoo on February 01, 2014, 02:03:39 PM
Stuart Yaniger, (SY on diyaudio.com) wrote years ago about a study he did measuring distortion on all kinds of 12AT7 tubes. He found the JJs to be the lowest distortion of all, including some precious NOS tubes. So I am not surprised that the JJs 6922s sound good too.

I remember hearing it in SAS11 preamp years ago. That left a mark on me! But I think that pre would still sound great even with Sovteks.

Hi Charles,

I came back and reread the posts, and saw your comment about SY. I was the one who gave SY the super low distortion spec information about the JJs. In fact, the distortion specs of the AT series is the highest of any 9 pin AX, AU. JJ managed to drop the distortion from something like .5% down to .02% for the same conditions/circuit.
JJ has done a very fine job.

Yes, the 11A (I still have one left) would still sound very nice with the Sovteks.

Cheers

Steve

richidoo · August 11, 2014, 01:37:41 PM

Quote from: steve on August 11, 2014, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: richidoo on February 01, 2014, 02:03:39 PM
Stuart Yaniger, (SY on diyaudio.com) wrote years ago about a study he did measuring distortion on all kinds of 12AT7 tubes. He found the JJs to be the lowest distortion of all, including some precious NOS tubes. So I am not surprised that the JJs 6922s sound good too.

I remember hearing it in SAS11 preamp years ago. That left a mark on me! But I think that pre would still sound great even with Sovteks.

Hi Charles,

I came back and reread the posts, and saw your comment about SY. I was the one who gave SY the super low distortion spec information about the JJs. In fact, the distortion specs of the AT series is the highest of any 9 pin AX, AU. JJ managed to drop the distortion from something like .5% down to .02% for the same conditions/circuit.
JJ has done a very fine job.

Yes, the 11A (I still have one left) would still sound very nice with the Sovteks.

Cheers

Steve

Cool! I used the JJ 12AT7 gold pins as inputs in my Manley amps, loved them when they were quiet.