An inch Here an Inch There

rollo · January 16, 2020, 07:24:42 AM

Bought a laser measuring device to check my speaker location dimensions. Found that the left speaker was 3/4" off from being square to other speaker. there was a slight favoring of the sound from right side. Well not any longer.
The fact that moving them a inch here and there to make it perfectly uniform the result was surprising. Better stage and imaging. Years ago when I had Maggies moving them a 1/2" changed the presentation. With that in mind I started moving them around from previous location. OMGoodness. What a difference an inch or two make. For me since I cannot move the Rethms out 6' from front wall I settled for 4'-6". Now at less than 4" BINGO.
Lesson ? If you think your speakers are positioned properly check them again. Ya never know.

charles

Brap · January 16, 2020, 08:28:03 AM

Do tell the spacing you have on the Fritz. I have roughly 40" from back wall, about 9 feet apart, listen about 9 feet from center.

rollo · January 16, 2020, 08:50:49 AM

Quote from: Brap on January 16, 2020, 08:28:03 AM
Do tell the spacing you have on the Fritz. I have roughly 40" from back wall, about 9 feet apart, listen about 9 feet from center.

I have them 7'-6" center to center. Back of speaker 30" from front wall. I sit 8' away.

charles

Brap · January 16, 2020, 08:54:48 AM

thanks Charles -- I have the ability to try that and will experiment. Problem I have is right one has a wall, left does not.

Barry (NJ) · January 16, 2020, 12:16:18 PM

A few months ago, I was at a demo of Genesis Advanced Technologies Speakers, and designer Gary Koh demonstrated how changes as little as 1/16" could have an effect on imaging. One speaker was angled back 1/16" more than the other, and the image was not as detailed as when it was brought into sync with it's partner. Immediately, height information, that was missing prior, was added to the sound-stage.

Brap · January 16, 2020, 12:21:07 PM

Interesting. I can understand that with the overall size of the Genesis line. I am first experimenting with "toe-in or no toe-in" Currently they are straight back and have a very nice soundstage but looking for the best. Trying different tracks right now that give me the best with the current set-up and once chosen, will continue. Have had dealings with Gary and I am cautious of him..............

Brap · January 16, 2020, 01:50:18 PM

Thanks. since I have an initial point of reference now with them straight-away with a nice soundstage, every other option is open for experiment. Would seem to me that having them 9' apart listening about 9' away, extreme toe-in as suggested would create more "bounce" off the back wall?

Brap · January 16, 2020, 02:20:48 PM

They are about 40" from the back wall now.

Barry (NJ) · January 16, 2020, 02:25:43 PM

Quote from: Brap on January 16, 2020, 12:21:07 PM
Interesting. I can understand that with the overall size of the Genesis line. I am first experimenting with "toe-in or no toe-in" Currently they are straight back and have a very nice soundstage but looking for the best. Trying different tracks right now that give me the best with the current set-up and once chosen, will continue. Have had dealings with Gary and I am cautious of him..............

Well this was more about speaker symmetry, the floor wasn't perfectly level so one speaker was leaning back slightly (1/16") more than the other. Once this was corrected for the change was pretty dramatic. However, some designs may be more susceptible to this than others, so YMMV

steve · January 16, 2020, 03:22:39 PM

Quote from: Barry (NJ) on January 16, 2020, 12:16:18 PM
A few months ago, I was at a demo of Genesis Advanced Technologies Speakers, and designer Gary Koh demonstrated how changes as little as 1/16" could have an effect on imaging. One speaker was angled back 1/16" more than the other, and the image was not as detailed as when it was brought into sync with it's partner. Immediately, height information, that was missing prior, was added to the sound-stage.

Hi Barry,

Absolutely agree. I move my speakers the width, or less, of a 0,5mm pen mark I make. It is good to see others who agree with such measurements.

Cheers
steve

Brap · January 16, 2020, 04:38:31 PM

Ok, toed in and sound was very speaker directional. Moved to 38" from front wall (speaker wall, my bad in previous posts), back to straight forward and all back to center stage music and picking up locations of instruments in between. You can see from my picture it's not a great room but all I've got. Maybe if lucky with the ST-70, Fritz combo.

Nick B · January 16, 2020, 06:21:04 PM

Quote from: Brap on January 16, 2020, 04:38:31 PM
Ok, toed in and sound was very speaker directional. Moved to 38" from front wall (speaker wall, my bad in previous posts), back to straight forward and all back to center stage music and picking up locations of instruments in between. You can see from my picture it's not a great room but all I've got. Maybe if lucky with the ST-70, Fritz combo.

I'm in the same boat as you, but's it's all I have. I initially found the repeated measuring and placements a bit tedious, but the results were well worth the effort. I will try and tinker with positioning a bit more.

rollo · January 17, 2020, 07:37:52 AM

Just mark the positions when you like presentation. Experiment further until either more of less satisfied. Fun fun fun.

charles

rollo · January 17, 2020, 08:29:08 AM

Quote from: doug s. on January 16, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: rollo on January 16, 2020, 07:24:42 AM
"...What a difference an inch or two make...."
that's what she said...

sorry, couldn't resist...

doug s.

As Rodney Dangerfield says it is like Burger King. The hamburger is VG until you try the Whopper.

charles

Brap · January 20, 2020, 10:14:47 AM

Got the Nordost 2 disc CD set from a local audio shop. Interesting test CD for speaker placement and performance. Love the bass tracks starting at 20Hz in 1 Hz increments up to 120. Drivers really move and rear port air pressure pretty awesome