Uh oh… I Think These Are Gorgeous - PAP

[P.I.]

Also I didn't read the thread. 

You we're better off not doing so... 

[rollo]

I know someone who measured one of their speakers. It wasn't good...

  Same was about Tube Amps. Measurements are not everything. Saying that The fleetwood is colored design. The designer made a decision to color the sound. If one likes that sound all good. Me not a fan.


charles

[Nick B]

Hmmm.....measurements, ASR etc    My Border Patrol SEi dac measures crappy, sounds very good to me. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I like sound that's a bit colored. My tastes have morphed a bit over time

[P.I.]

Hmmm.....measurements, ASR etc    My Border Patrol SEi dac measures crappy, sounds very good to me. The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I like sound that's a bit colored. My tastes have morphed a bit over time

Ahhh.  Personal preference tempered by experience, age and ... face it: hearing losses.

[Folsom]

I know someone who measured one of their speakers. It wasn't good...

  Same was about Tube Amps. Measurements are not everything. Saying that The fleetwood is colored design. The designer made a decision to color the sound. If one likes that sound all good. Me not a fan.


charles

Tube amps measure fine.

Old speakers measure well.

These do not.

[Nick B]

I know someone who measured one of their speakers. It wasn't good...

Did he listen to it as well? If so, what'd he think?

[Folsom]

He said you could hear the massive holes where the frequencies did not exist.

[Nick B]

He said you could hear the massive holes where the frequencies did not exist.

Ok, that's a very interesting response. Good to know....

[AJ Soundfield]

[dflee]

I've come to the realization that no in home stereo will duplicate actual and thus am enjoying the stereo more. It really comes down to whatever floats your boat. If you like em than that's all that counts. You don't need others justification. It all comes down to you and you alone. Sure getting others opinions is fun but that's all it is "opinions" and you don't sit and listen to opinions, you listen to what you like. If you enjoy them than that is very cool that you can get off the merry-go-round, take a deep breath and relax. Feel sorry for the rest of us still searching.

Don

[P.I.]

When I designed Santa Fe Center Studios back in 1995 (oh, the good old daze) Doug Geist, the owner, and I listened to every available main monitor speaker available under $12K / pr.  The KRK mains that were popular at the time were literally one of the worst loudspeakers either one of us had ever heard!  Urei monitors were too old school with their Altec 604 Time Aligned drivers.  Westlakes were awesome, but well beyond the budget.  We settled on these: https://www.genelec.com/1238a  They did no harm, BUT they were a tad veiled.  I went into them, replaced all of the TL072 op amps and a bunch of capacitors.  They were transformed in their ability to communicate the mix.  Interesting thing is that when the frequency response captures were input into ProTools they were virtually identical.  The noticeable differences were in low frequencies.  The high frequency deviations were less than 0.05dB.  Clarity, transparency, micro dynamics were at a new level.  The ability to "communicate" the performances made all of our jobs MUCH easier.

Frequency responses are 2 dimensional representations of a multi dimensional reality. 

Or, something like that... 😁

[P.I.]

I've come to the realization that no in home stereo will duplicate actual and thus am enjoying the stereo more. It really comes down to whatever floats your boat. If you like em than that's all that counts. You don't need others justification. It all comes down to you and you alone. Sure getting others opinions is fun but that's all it is "opinions" and you don't sit and listen to opinions, you listen to what you like. If you enjoy them than that is very cool that you can get off the merry-go-round, take a deep breath and relax. Feel sorry for the rest of us still searching.

Don

Welcome home, grasshopper    The reality is that there is no reality in reproduction.  Great illusions?  Sometimes.  Reality?  Never.  Enjoyment?  In almost every occasion when the music is the destination.  Your system is unique.  Your ears are unique.  Your musical tastes are unique.  Your room is unique.  Your preferred listening level is unique.  You, my friend, are definitely unique!   

Enjoy...

Cue Tom!   

[Nick B]

I've come to the realization that no in home stereo will duplicate actual and thus am enjoying the stereo more. It really comes down to whatever floats your boat. If you like em than that's all that counts. You don't need others justification. It all comes down to you and you alone. Sure getting others opinions is fun but that's all it is "opinions" and you don't sit and listen to opinions, you listen to what you like. If you enjoy them than that is very cool that you can get off the merry-go-round, take a deep breath and relax. Feel sorry for the rest of us still searching.

Don

Welcome home, grasshopper    The reality is that there is no reality in reproduction.  Great illusions?  Sometimes.  Reality?  Never.  Enjoyment?  In almost every occasion when the music is the destination.  Your system is unique.  Your ears are unique.  Your musical tastes are unique.  Your room is unique.  Your preferred listening level is unique.  You, my friend, are definitely unique!   

Enjoy...

Cue Tom!   

Hmmm, so I don't need to look at graphs while I'm listening to a new speaker??  Just whether or not I like the SQ? Ok, works for me 

[P.I.]

I've come to the realization that no in home stereo will duplicate actual and thus am enjoying the stereo more. It really comes down to whatever floats your boat. If you like em than that's all that counts. You don't need others justification. It all comes down to you and you alone. Sure getting others opinions is fun but that's all it is "opinions" and you don't sit and listen to opinions, you listen to what you like. If you enjoy them than that is very cool that you can get off the merry-go-round, take a deep breath and relax. Feel sorry for the rest of us still searching.

Don

Welcome home, grasshopper    The reality is that there is no reality in reproduction.  Great illusions?  Sometimes.  Reality?  Never.  Enjoyment?  In almost every occasion when the music is the destination.  Your system is unique.  Your ears are unique.  Your musical tastes are unique.  Your room is unique.  Your preferred listening level is unique.  You, my friend, are definitely unique!   

Enjoy...

Cue Tom!   

Hmmm, so I don't need to look at graphs while I'm listening to a new speaker??  Just whether or not I like the SQ? Ok, works for me 

I'm not saying that at all.  Graphs and measurements is where we have to start.  Reality( that word again) is that measurement gear, mics, probes, meters, etc, don't "listen" to music or even test tones.  They generate voltages that help to create data.

One of my best friends in the industry used to say: "Man, it measures flat +/- 2dB from 20Hz to 20KHz". I would say " that's great, but how does it sound."  It took him a while, but I convinced him that parts quality, topology and simplicity in execution were what really determines SQ.  Simpler is almost always better.  Every part is non-linear and introduces colorations.

[Nick B]

I've come to the realization that no in home stereo will duplicate actual and thus am enjoying the stereo more. It really comes down to whatever floats your boat. If you like em than that's all that counts. You don't need others justification. It all comes down to you and you alone. Sure getting others opinions is fun but that's all it is "opinions" and you don't sit and listen to opinions, you listen to what you like. If you enjoy them than that is very cool that you can get off the merry-go-round, take a deep breath and relax. Feel sorry for the rest of us still searching.

Don

Welcome home, grasshopper    The reality is that there is no reality in reproduction.  Great illusions?  Sometimes.  Reality?  Never.  Enjoyment?  In almost every occasion when the music is the destination.  Your system is unique.  Your ears are unique.  Your musical tastes are unique.  Your room is unique.  Your preferred listening level is unique.  You, my friend, are definitely unique!   

Enjoy...

Cue Tom!   

Hmmm, so I don't need to look at graphs while I'm listening to a new speaker??  Just whether or not I like the SQ? Ok, works for me 

I'm not saying that at all.  Graphs and measurements is where we have to start.  Reality( that word again) is that measurement gear, mics, probes, meters, etc, don't "listen" to music or even test tones.  They generate voltages that help to create data.

One of my best friends in the industry used to say: "Man, it measures flat +/- 2dB from 20Hz to 20KHz". I would say " that's great, but how does it sound."  It took him a while, but I convinced him that parts quality, topology and simplicity in execution were what really determines SQ.  Simpler is almost always better.  Every part is non-linear and introduces colorations.

I am responding only as a non-technical music enthusiast. I've never had a friend, dealer etc lend me gear and say "hear are the measurements for your review". I knew my Border Patrol dac measured very poorly, but I had read so many positive comments about it that I decided to buy a used one nonetheless. I continue to be quite happy with it. Having seen the comments here about the Fleetwoods measurements and SQ, it's a bit of a concern. But I don't have 15K anyway.
I wouldn't know of another way to evaluate equipment other that what does it sound like in my home.